Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

Griselda

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I see everyone talking about Geno vs Waluigi - meanwhile am I the only one thinking Paper Mario is much more likely? I like Waluigi, however I don't think he could bring that much new to the table compared to Geno and especially Paper Mario, also I highly doubt they push to promote assist trophies. I think either Geno or Paper Mario will definitely get in - I wish both of them could, yet that would probably too much to ask for.

If they choose Paper Mario, I'd totally understand it, since it is an ongoing franchise with 6 mainline games that just got Origami King and probably the next Paper Mario will already be in development very soon + there is a severe lack of Paper Mario content in Smash. I feel like if there were also (bonus) fighters without a respective stage, Geno could be a perfect bonus fighter alongside a potential Paper Mario Pack with a Paper Mario stage and a huge selection of music from various Mario RPGs (including Paper Mario, Mario & Luigi and Mario RPG). Yet the fact that each challenger comes with a stage and own music tracks kinda speaks against my dream of both Paper Mario and Geno getting into Smash.
Paper Mario already has a stage, though - as well as spirits. The Mario & Luigi series also has spirits and music already in the game. Meanwhile there aren't any stages already present in the game that are very connected to or suitable for representing Geno and SMRPG, the only spirits are of Geno himself and Mallow, and there's no music from SMRPG. If anything, it'd be the other way around, with Paper Mario as the bonus that comes with less.
 

super88cloud

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Smash is a dead franchise if that happens. That'll be a hard pass from me.
I disagree.
If smash needs a cutting of the fat it has,a lot of echo characters can be removed:
Lucina,chrom,daisy,richter,darkpit.
Young link.pichu.
Then duck hunt,lucario.
Ken.
Wftrainer. Mii fighters.
Doctor mario. Isabelle.
Duck hunter.
Any 3rd party that is a ***** to get characters from(square enix).
I think i read that the next smash could be a 3d fighter instead of 2d.
 

xpnc

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My current pass predictions are Geno and a green space marine of some description
 

MarioRaccoon

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4 retro ips being revived by indie developers ? I can see them being Ballon Fight, Ice Climbers, Mach Rider and maybe Wrecking Crew

3 dead IPs? Supposedly one is Golden Sun, I think the rest maybe be Sin & Punishment (remakes of N64 and Wii games, both are very short and they can be put on the same cartridge) and a new Wars (Advance or Battalion).

New Donkey Kong by Nintendo ? I hope it is a linear 3D game similar to Crash Bandicoot (Crash was clearly inspired by original DKC trilogy) with some open sections similar to Spyro or Mario Galaxy games. In the worst case, it can be a donkey kong jungle beat remake haha The only one that can make a very high quality DK game (inside Nintendo) is Mario 3D Team (leaded by Koizumi)

Next smash news? If next general direct is in august, its likely we will get who FP7 is (originally an E3 announcement), but if its later september, maybe we will a double reveal of FP7 and FP8 (that was always planned as a september direct reveal). Before that, I think we will get a new indies direct. Its been a long time since the last one and there are a good chunk of games that we didn't get new updates like Sport Story, Axiom Verge 2 or Hollow Knight Silksong.
 
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maf91186

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No joke, if they were to release a physical version of Ultimate with all the dlc included, I'd easily pay $150 for it.
 

super88cloud

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Nothing against your taste, but it's weird how so many Geno fans also want Doom Slayer too.
A little bit is probably cacomallow, and also, most of the geno fans are 20+ year olds.
Also, it´s a bit ridiculous and funny looking. A demonslayer and his doll.
 

Dukefire

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I can picture another scenario that the Smithy gang invades the smash universe while trying to secure the invite for domination of the world. Only for Geno to then swipe the invite back to help sending the Smithy gang back flying.
 

Griselda

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Nothing against your taste, but it's weird how so many Geno fans also want Doom Slayer too.
A little bit is probably cacomallow, and also, most of the geno fans are 20+ year olds.
Also, it´s a bit ridiculous and funny looking. A demonslayer and his doll.
This, but less that it looks funny in my opinion and more that they're surprisingly similar, being gun-based characters who wield a variety of weapons and who can deal a ton of damage but don't take it very well, themselves. Personally, though, I don't really care for Doom Slayer or the series in general in terms of having any attachment to it at all. For me it's pretty much just the CacoMallow thing. But regardless - he, like everyone else, falls under a general sort of feeling where as long as I get Geno first, I don't care who comes in afterwards, and I'd prefer the characters after Geno be fulfilling the wishes of others, rather than my own additional picks. There are characters that I'd actually be pretty angry about if they got into Smash, but considering where we are in the game, we're sort of past that. If there's not going to be a third pass, then it's time to make sure as many people are satisfied as possible. Several people want Doom Slayer, so that's good enough I think.
 

J. Bond

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Indie Direct on the 18th and either a General or a Mini (please be a General) soon after is our best bet now.
 

Awkwah

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Yea, Doom guy from what I know is very unlikely.

Chief imo would make a much larger impact. Excited to see how it pans out. :)
 

link2702

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on the topic of why folks who want geno, also want doomguy....

It's simply because one getting confirmed, would also confirm the other. If Geno does indeed come with a Mallow hat, that means Cacodemon hat was also real, and therefore doomguy is next. And vice versa.
 

CopperKoopa

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on the topic of why folks who want geno, also want doomguy....

It's simply because one getting confirmed, would also confirm the other. If Geno does indeed come with a Mallow hat, that means Cacodemon hat was also real, and therefore doomguy is next. And vice versa.
Not necessarily. We've received costumes unrelated to characters before. It certainly helps his chances, but doesn't confirm anything. Also, if we can trust sources, then a coming Joanna Dark costume would support Chief just as much.
 

Icewolff92

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I said it before, and I say it again. The only way Smash can live on moving forward from console to console is through ports of Ultimates. With every DLC character, the shot themself even more in the foot. I can´t for the life of me, see the casual market (which is the largest market for this game) be interested if they see the game even contain half of the current roster... The only thing I can see them think is (myself included)... "why do I want to buy this when I have Ultimate, it is just a waste of money".
 

Fatmanonice

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I thought you had said earlier, or maybe somebody else, that Doomguy wasn't happening?
I did say that but that's my opinion and my opinion isn't absolute. Doom Guy fans have been real bros to the Geno fanbase the past year and they're welcome here regardless if Doom Guy makes the cut. I respect the hell out of them for their enthusiasm and, just like us, they're very "ride or die" for their guy and don't let other people's thoughts squash their optimism. It's funny how life works out sometimes but the DOOM fanbase has been some of our strongest allies.
 

Houndstooth

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Yeah. The Doom fanbase and the Geno fanbase were brought together thanks to the Cacomallow video. Seeing Geno and Doomguy fan art everywhere for a bit was pretty cool. Also, the Doomslayer peeps have always seemed super cool and chill.
 

Hot_N_Tasty

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I disagree.
If smash needs a cutting of the fat it has,a lot of echo characters can be removed:
Lucina,chrom,daisy,richter,darkpit.
Young link.pichu.
Then duck hunt,lucario.
Ken.
Wftrainer. Mii fighters.
Doctor mario. Isabelle.
Duck hunter.
Any 3rd party that is a ***** to get characters from(square enix).
I think i read that the next smash could be a 3d fighter instead of 2d.
A nitpick here, but I can't see Lucario and Greninja getting the axe that early considering how hard gf pushes them, and Sakurai has stated several times how much gf has an input of for Pokemon in smash.
 
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SSGuy

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I did say that but that's my opinion and my opinion isn't absolute. Doom Guy fans have been real bros to the Geno fanbase the past year and they're welcome here regardless if Doom Guy makes the cut. I respect the hell out of them for their enthusiasm and, just like us, they're very "ride or die" for their guy and don't let other people's thoughts squash their optimism. It's funny how life works out sometimes but the DOOM fanbase has been some of our strongest allies.
That's how I have felt about Lloyd and it's why as much as I'm not crazy in the oversaturation of Swordfighters, he is in my top 5 for characters i'd be hyped to see in the game.
 

Let Geno Smash

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I did say that but that's my opinion and my opinion isn't absolute. Doom Guy fans have been real bros to the Geno fanbase the past year and they're welcome here regardless if Doom Guy makes the cut. I respect the hell out of them for their enthusiasm and, just like us, they're very "ride or die" for their guy and don't let other people's thoughts squash their optimism. It's funny how life works out sometimes but the DOOM fanbase has been some of our strongest allies.
Seeing it in that way, it's real. "But Geno is a Irrelevant Pinochhio from a 20 years old game no one cares about" , "But DoomSlayer is very violent" , "Square won't choose Geno over Sora, 2B, Neku, Crono, Lara Croft, Gex or Cooking Mama:4pacman:", "Bethesda confirm that Nintendo didn't approach them", etc. The Doom and SMRPG fans are unite much like the DQ and BanjoKazooie fans after E3 2019
 

StarLight42

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Funny thing is I used to think cacomallow was fake but now i’m leaning back toward it being real, but under one condition, Doomguy still isn’t in. Yep, i’m thinking Cacodemon in the Master Chief pack. I have no attachment to Doom one way or another, this is just my prediction
 

Vector Victor

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I had a dream I was playing Smash with others, and Geno wasn't playable. Then I looked up and saw that Geno was one of the PLAYERS.



Also, my Donkey Kong playing was horrible. What a nightmare.
 

Genome

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Question for the Geno thread:
If Mallow got in instead of Geno, would you be equally happy?

Please specify if you beat Super Mario RPG in your answer
 

CopperKoopa

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Messages
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Question for the Geno thread:
If Mallow got in instead of Geno, would you be equally happy?

Please specify if you beat Super Mario RPG in your answer
I've seen it said before. I'd be totally happy with that too. I want both those characters to become regulars in the Mario universe. But I'm feeling pretty strong that when Geno shows up, Mallow will be part of his moveset, maybe as a taunt or part of his victory screen. I could also see him coming in for the final smash since cameo characters during final smashes seems to be pretty common in this game. Could be something where Mallow appears to use a lightning spell that catches characters, then Geno becomes the cannon and uses Geno Flash to finish them off. Pretty sure someone earlier in this thread actually suggested that.
 

Giveaway412

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It would seriously stink if Cacomallow turned out to be real and Doomguy still wasn't in. I mean, it'd be sweet to get Geno, but it'd only feel like half a victory. As you can tell from my avatar, I have no bias whatsoever.

But seriously, Doom has a long history as the father of the FPS genre and a surprising history with Nintendo, more than the Chief can claim. I'm not one to start feuds but to me Master Chief would feel more like a representative of Microsoft than a representative of FPS games in general. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it feels like a bit of a missed opportunity, considering that we'll likely only get one given the characters' similarity and the limited amount of patience that Japanese fans have for western space marine shooty guys.

Doomguy was a darkhorse pick before Cacomallow and I didn't have much hope he'd get in even though I wanted him. After Cacomallow, the camaraderie between the Doomguy and Geno fanbases was a great feeling and something I'd like to hold onto if possible, even if Cacomallow turns out to be nothing.
 

Fatmanonice

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So, I noticed some of my comments the past couple of days have gotten some attention outside this site so I wanted to explain things so that there's no confusion about these rumors:

Donkey Kong: this story isn't new and I've talked about it since January. Markomaro was the one that broke the story last November here:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Newmarkomaro/status/1190952022813675521

On my end, I first openly talked about it here:

https://smashboards.com/threads/geno-♥♪-return-of-the-starsend-savior.446378/page-2366#post-23817138

Basically one of my "Christmas gifts" from one of my contacts was him telling me that three "missing" NSO SNES games would eventually be tied into (likely) E3 announcements.

From there, the evidence for a Donkey Kong just got stronger and stronger. Neither DK or Diddy's Smash Amiibo have been rereleased yet for some reason, pretty notable cameo in TOK, Dixie and Funky in MKT for seemingly no reason, DKC finally on the NSO, Nintendo's social media accounts talking a ton about DK since May, etc. There's a lot and it's been an avalanche this summer. When I shared this in the Dixie thread, a very notable insider reached out to me in private noting that they had heard the same things I had. Based on who it was, I definitely believe it's real.

Golden Sun: as I said, Golden Sun is one of the three dead franchises I've been teasing since last fall. I consider Naz a friend and I broke my silence to back up his claims. We both used to be in Sabi's circle and, honestly, aside from the NoA ambassador, he probably suffered from more abuse from Sabi and Maru than any of us. He deserves respect and I absolutely trust him.

Last October, Sabi's circle got a tip that Golden Sun was probably coming back. We were warned, however, the rumor came from a guy who had a history of half his stuff being true and half being total bull**** so to not take it super seriously. A few months pass and Nintendo strangely updates the Golden Sun trademark for the second time in two years. I then get a tip that Nintendo is very, very serious about reviving a lot of IPs in 2020 and beyond because of how stupidly well the Switch is doing. Like I said yesterday, Golden Sun was supposedly chosen not only because of Smash but because RPGs have been doing crazy good on the Switch and Nintendo wanted in on that. Like Naz said, he basically got a silver bullet within his own connections that Golden Sun was real around April and I definitely believe him based on things on my end.

The dead franchise being revived by an indie: there seems to be some confusion here so I'll clarify. Supposedly there's three NES/indie collabs coming and one dead franchise being handled by an indie that's supposed to be a major project ala Cadence of Hyrule. Here is the first time I specifically mentioned this project last December:

https://smashboards.com/threads/geno-♥♪-return-of-the-starsend-savior.446378/page-2016#post-23723478

Now, the story here is interesting because it doesn't start in December but August of last year. While in Sabi's circle, we got a tip that one of Nintendo's E3 2020 plans was to revive a specific dead franchise. I made note it and life went on. By January, things had branched out. This franchise had not one notable rumor but four. "Okay, there has to be something to this" and I'd argue, like DK, the evidence has gotten stronger and stronger over time.

Now, some backstory, supposedly this project ties into Iwata's plans for Indies. The following is basically a patchwork of things I have heard on the matter and put together as a narrative. I can't totally confirm the total validity of this story since I'm not in the industry but it lines up with a lot that's already public:

Supposedly around 2008/2009, Iwata saw that the Wii was doing amazing but, as a smart business man, knew it couldn't last. He saw that games were getting bigger and bigger budgets and longer and longer development times and was already seeing the problems it was causing the industry. He knew this couldn't last and took a very strong interest in indie development, honestly believing they were the future of gaming. Iwata then put into motion the plan to not only support and give resources to indie developers but eventually get to a point where the company could trust them with Nintendo's IPs.

Iwata's plan sounded good to the suits at Nintendo but they were super skeptical about trusting Indies with their IPs. Third parties was one thing and that was already a mixed bag. Again, Iwata believed in the potential of indie developers and basically told the other executives that, in due time, Indies would come to produce AAA games and told them to take all the time they needed to see things from his point of view. The rumor was that the endgame of Iwata's plan was two fold: trust an indie with one of their big IPs and trust an indie to successfully revive a dead Nintendo IP.

Unfortunately, the executives didn't really see things from Iwata's point of view until after his passing and during the early days of the Switch. They finally realized that Indies were something to take seriously and then were on the lookout for Indies that could handle Iwata's two project ideas. Obviously, Cadence of Hyrule was the first and went with that one first because they considered it the bigger risk (flashbacks of the CD-I). The game was a huge success and critically acclaimed and then, almost a decade later, Nintendo was finally confident that it could trust indies with notable projects with their IPs.

In a sense, the dead franchise revival is meant to be a fulfillment of Iwata's plan, a realization of his faith in indie developers, and the kick off of a new era for Nintendo. This is also why I've kept it secret because it's a big deal and, symbolically, it's a hell of a statement about not only Iwata's legacy but his vision, trust, and even love of the gaming industry. I'm getting choked up typing that but, like Ultimate, I feel it's one of Iwata's final gifts to Nintendo fans.

NES/indie games: as an extension of the above, Nintendo wants to show it trusts Indies with their IPs and is supposedly very open to dusting off their more obscure and older IPs for the sake of Indies breathing new life into them. Basically the rumor is that these three games are essentially "Phase Two" of Nintendo trusting Indies with their IPs. Like I said, details are scarce. Three NES classics (no sequels and not Japanese exclusives) and three seperate indie developers Nintendo decided it could trust with them. My guy strongly believed he knew one of them but didn't want it shared and his educated guess for another was Balloon Fight. Apparently Nintendo told these developers to take all the time they needed to impress them with the final product and it's not known when they're coming but one of my guys was very confident one would be a 2020 release, maybe as soon as the end of the summer.
 

okamifire

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Question for the Geno thread:
If Mallow got in instead of Geno, would you be equally happy?

Please specify if you beat Super Mario RPG in your answer
I’d like Mallow but would legit feel bad for those Geno specific fans. Though the SMRPG music and stage would still be sweet.

They’d never do this, so I’m not worried about it. Closest option is an Ice Climbers situation.

Played and finished SMRPG years ago, loved it.
 

Lagguino

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Question for the Geno thread:
If Mallow got in instead of Geno, would you be equally happy?

Please specify if you beat Super Mario RPG in your answer
I played and beaten Super Mario RPG but imo i would be happy if mallow got in but it would be a small downer for those who specifically wanted geno (myself included) which is why i usually push for a duo type character (mallow appearing in some of geno's moveset)
 

domriver

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I just entirely love this talk about Geno, DoomGuy, MasterChief. Though i personally think its going to be Geno and either Doom or Master. 1 or the other. Ill be shocked if both but i don't see that happening. Regarding the "next" smash i see that coming in the NEXT Generation console me thinks. Maybe... Even so this roster that we have will not exist. I think all 3rd party with a a few exceptions will be gone. The "Exceptions" i think are Sonic, Bayonetta and probably Megaman MAYBE. I think Sonic, Bayonetta are here to stay to be quite honest. Reasons? Well Sonic just fits in soo well the Nintendo world. Its a feeling to be honest. As for Bayonetta - bayonetta 3 will determine if she is destined to be Nintendo's Naughty Girl. I have hopes that Bayonetta 3 when released (hopefully this year but doubt) it will out sell both of her entries. Platinum makes good games. I don't think they will let Bayonetta fail. With the Nintendo budget behind them. Sorry to be a bit off topic. Now that i think about it this may very well be Geno's last chance to join the SMASH with Sakurai as Director. Its hard to predict Sakurai. He goes no more smash but keeps coming back. When and if then next smash is considered that maybe in 5-7 years! He will be close to be entering his 60's. sigh..... Comon Sakurai! I know you got Geno stashed in your private vault just waiting for the right time to reveal him!!!!!! :bluejump::bluejump::bluejump::bluejump::bluejump::bluejump::bluejump::bluejump:
 

Icewolff92

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I just entirely love this talk about Geno, DoomGuy, MasterChief. Though i personally think its going to be Geno and either Doom or Master. 1 or the other. Ill be shocked if both but i don't see that happening. Regarding the "next" smash i see that coming in the NEXT Generation console me thinks. Maybe... Even so this roster that we have will not exist. I think all 3rd party with a a few exceptions will be gone. The "Exceptions" i think are Sonic, Bayonetta and probably Megaman MAYBE. I think Sonic, Bayonetta are here to stay to be quite honest. Reasons? Well Sonic just fits in soo well the Nintendo world. Its a feeling to be honest. As for Bayonetta - bayonetta 3 will determine if she is destined to be Nintendo's Naughty Girl. I have hopes that Bayonetta 3 when released (hopefully this year but doubt) it will out sell both of her entries. Platinum makes good games. I don't think they will let Bayonetta fail. With the Nintendo budget behind them. Sorry to be a bit off topic. Now that i think about it this may very well be Geno's last chance to join the SMASH with Sakurai as Director. Its hard to predict Sakurai. He goes no more smash but keeps coming back. When and if then next smash is considered that maybe in 5-7 years! He will be close to be entering his 60's. sigh..... Comon Sakurai! I know you got Geno stashed in your private vault just waiting for the right time to reveal him!!!!!! :bluejump::bluejump::bluejump::bluejump::bluejump::bluejump::bluejump::bluejump:
If there is a new entry that is not a port (which I highly doubt since the only smart way to continue the series is through ports) I highly doubt we are only getting Sonic Bayo and Mega Man only to return.
 

Snoop_nogg

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While Master Chief would be amazing, I would prefer Doomguy. Doomguy/DoomSlayer has been around longer and is pretty much the face of FPS games forever.

Plus I really like the idea of Doomguy and Geno being bros when the CacoMallow leak happened.
 

Lord Woomy

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A general trend I noticed last year

Smash Fans speculating on Doomguy for most of 2019: "Doom Guy's basically an inevitability. He's got such a history with Nintendo and Bethesda even said they talked with the Smash developers! He's one of the most likely characters for the Fighter Pass"

Smash Fans speculating on Doomguy after CacoMallow and him getting tied to Geno: absolute silence aside from a gust of wind blowing a tumbleweed.
 
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Super10ZX

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A general trend I noticed last year

Smash Fans speculating on Doomguy for most of 2019: "Doom Guy's basically an inevitability. He's got such a history with Nintendo and Bethesda even said they talked with the Smash developers! He's one of the most likely characters for the Fighter Pass"

Smash Fans speculating on Doomguy after CacoMallow and him getting tied to Geno: absolute silence aside from a gust of wind blowing a tumbleweed.
I wouldn’t say Cacomallow is entirely to blame for people getting more silent about Doomguy. I think that interview with Marty Stratton was a much bigger blow, and just kinda made people view Doomguy as more unlikely.
 

a random user

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So, I noticed some of my comments the past couple of days have gotten some attention outside this site so I wanted to explain things so that there's no confusion about these rumors:

Donkey Kong: this story isn't new and I've talked about it since January. Markomaro was the one that broke the story last November here:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Newmarkomaro/status/1190952022813675521

On my end, I first openly talked about it here:

https://smashboards.com/threads/geno-♥♪-return-of-the-starsend-savior.446378/page-2366#post-23817138

Basically one of my "Christmas gifts" from one of my contacts was him telling me that three "missing" NSO SNES games would eventually be tied into (likely) E3 announcements.

From there, the evidence for a Donkey Kong just got stronger and stronger. Neither DK or Diddy's Smash Amiibo have been rereleased yet for some reason, pretty notable cameo in TOK, Dixie and Funky in MKT for seemingly no reason, DKC finally on the NSO, Nintendo's social media accounts talking a ton about DK since May, etc. There's a lot and it's been an avalanche this summer. When I shared this in the Dixie thread, a very notable insider reached out to me in private noting that they had heard the same things I had. Based on who it was, I definitely believe it's real.

Golden Sun: as I said, Golden Sun is one of the three dead franchises I've been teasing since last fall. I consider Naz a friend and I broke my silence to back up his claims. We both used to be in Sabi's circle and, honestly, aside from the NoA ambassador, he probably suffered from more abuse from Sabi and Maru than any of us. He deserves respect and I absolutely trust him.

Last October, Sabi's circle got a tip that Golden Sun was probably coming back. We were warned, however, the rumor came from a guy who had a history of half his stuff being true and half being total bull**** so to not take it super seriously. A few months pass and Nintendo strangely updates the Golden Sun trademark for the second time in two years. I then get a tip that Nintendo is very, very serious about reviving a lot of IPs in 2020 and beyond because of how stupidly well the Switch is doing. Like I said yesterday, Golden Sun was supposedly chosen not only because of Smash but because RPGs have been doing crazy good on the Switch and Nintendo wanted in on that. Like Naz said, he basically got a silver bullet within his own connections that Golden Sun was real around April and I definitely believe him based on things on my end.

The dead franchise being revived by an indie: there seems to be some confusion here so I'll clarify. Supposedly there's three NES/indie collabs coming and one dead franchise being handled by an indie that's supposed to be a major project ala Cadence of Hyrule. Here is the first time I specifically mentioned this project last December:

https://smashboards.com/threads/geno-♥♪-return-of-the-starsend-savior.446378/page-2016#post-23723478

Now, the story here is interesting because it doesn't start in December but August of last year. While in Sabi's circle, we got a tip that one of Nintendo's E3 2020 plans was to revive a specific dead franchise. I made note it and life went on. By January, things had branched out. This franchise had not one notable rumor but four. "Okay, there has to be something to this" and I'd argue, like DK, the evidence has gotten stronger and stronger over time.

Now, some backstory, supposedly this project ties into Iwata's plans for Indies. The following is basically a patchwork of things I have heard on the matter and put together as a narrative. I can't totally confirm the total validity of this story since I'm not in the industry but it lines up with a lot that's already public:

Supposedly around 2008/2009, Iwata saw that the Wii was doing amazing but, as a smart business man, knew it couldn't last. He saw that games were getting bigger and bigger budgets and longer and longer development times and was already seeing the problems it was causing the industry. He knew this couldn't last and took a very strong interest in indie development, honestly believing they were the future of gaming. Iwata then put into motion the plan to not only support and give resources to indie developers but eventually get to a point where the company could trust them with Nintendo's IPs.

Iwata's plan sounded good to the suits at Nintendo but they were super skeptical about trusting Indies with their IPs. Third parties was one thing and that was already a mixed bag. Again, Iwata believed in the potential of indie developers and basically told the other executives that, in due time, Indies would come to produce AAA games and told them to take all the time they needed to see things from his point of view. The rumor was that the endgame of Iwata's plan was two fold: trust an indie with one of their big IPs and trust an indie to successfully revive a dead Nintendo IP.

Unfortunately, the executives didn't really see things from Iwata's point of view until after his passing and during the early days of the Switch. They finally realized that Indies were something to take seriously and then were on the lookout for Indies that could handle Iwata's two project ideas. Obviously, Cadence of Hyrule was the first and went with that one first because they considered it the bigger risk (flashbacks of the CD-I). The game was a huge success and critically acclaimed and then, almost a decade later, Nintendo was finally confident that it could trust indies with notable projects with their IPs.

In a sense, the dead franchise revival is meant to be a fulfillment of Iwata's plan, a realization of his faith in indie developers, and the kick off of a new era for Nintendo. This is also why I've kept it secret because it's a big deal and, symbolically, it's a hell of a statement about not only Iwata's legacy but his vision, trust, and even love of the gaming industry. I'm getting choked up typing that but, like Ultimate, I feel it's one of Iwata's final gifts to Nintendo fans.

NES/indie games: as an extension of the above, Nintendo wants to show it trusts Indies with their IPs and is supposedly very open to dusting off their more obscure and older IPs for the sake of Indies breathing new life into them. Basically the rumor is that these three games are essentially "Phase Two" of Nintendo trusting Indies with their IPs. Like I said, details are scarce. Three NES classics (no sequels and not Japanese exclusives) and three seperate indie developers Nintendo decided it could trust with them. My guy strongly believed he knew one of them but didn't want it shared and his educated guess for another was Balloon Fight. Apparently Nintendo told these developers to take all the time they needed to impress them with the final product and it's not known when they're coming but one of my guys was very confident one would be a 2020 release, maybe as soon as the end of the summer.
in terms of indie developers i could see nintiendo trusting indies with, toby fox (undertale)- with mother seems like the most obvious, he even worked with them on pokemon sword/shield for the battle tower music
 

Lord Woomy

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 12, 2019
Messages
901
Location
The Void
I wouldn’t say Cacomallow is entirely to blame for people getting more silent about Doomguy. I think that interview with Marty Stratton was a much bigger blow, and just kinda made people view Doomguy as more unlikely.
Eh, I noticed it back in 2019 too but I don't think the interview helped very much either.
 

YsDisciple

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 14, 2019
Messages
1,023
So, I noticed some of my comments the past couple of days have gotten some attention outside this site so I wanted to explain things so that there's no confusion about these rumors:

Donkey Kong: this story isn't new and I've talked about it since January. Markomaro was the one that broke the story last November here:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Newmarkomaro/status/1190952022813675521

On my end, I first openly talked about it here:

https://smashboards.com/threads/geno-♥♪-return-of-the-starsend-savior.446378/page-2366#post-23817138

Basically one of my "Christmas gifts" from one of my contacts was him telling me that three "missing" NSO SNES games would eventually be tied into (likely) E3 announcements.

From there, the evidence for a Donkey Kong just got stronger and stronger. Neither DK or Diddy's Smash Amiibo have been rereleased yet for some reason, pretty notable cameo in TOK, Dixie and Funky in MKT for seemingly no reason, DKC finally on the NSO, Nintendo's social media accounts talking a ton about DK since May, etc. There's a lot and it's been an avalanche this summer. When I shared this in the Dixie thread, a very notable insider reached out to me in private noting that they had heard the same things I had. Based on who it was, I definitely believe it's real.

Golden Sun: as I said, Golden Sun is one of the three dead franchises I've been teasing since last fall. I consider Naz a friend and I broke my silence to back up his claims. We both used to be in Sabi's circle and, honestly, aside from the NoA ambassador, he probably suffered from more abuse from Sabi and Maru than any of us. He deserves respect and I absolutely trust him.

Last October, Sabi's circle got a tip that Golden Sun was probably coming back. We were warned, however, the rumor came from a guy who had a history of half his stuff being true and half being total bull**** so to not take it super seriously. A few months pass and Nintendo strangely updates the Golden Sun trademark for the second time in two years. I then get a tip that Nintendo is very, very serious about reviving a lot of IPs in 2020 and beyond because of how stupidly well the Switch is doing. Like I said yesterday, Golden Sun was supposedly chosen not only because of Smash but because RPGs have been doing crazy good on the Switch and Nintendo wanted in on that. Like Naz said, he basically got a silver bullet within his own connections that Golden Sun was real around April and I definitely believe him based on things on my end.

The dead franchise being revived by an indie: there seems to be some confusion here so I'll clarify. Supposedly there's three NES/indie collabs coming and one dead franchise being handled by an indie that's supposed to be a major project ala Cadence of Hyrule. Here is the first time I specifically mentioned this project last December:

https://smashboards.com/threads/geno-♥♪-return-of-the-starsend-savior.446378/page-2016#post-23723478

Now, the story here is interesting because it doesn't start in December but August of last year. While in Sabi's circle, we got a tip that one of Nintendo's E3 2020 plans was to revive a specific dead franchise. I made note it and life went on. By January, things had branched out. This franchise had not one notable rumor but four. "Okay, there has to be something to this" and I'd argue, like DK, the evidence has gotten stronger and stronger over time.

Now, some backstory, supposedly this project ties into Iwata's plans for Indies. The following is basically a patchwork of things I have heard on the matter and put together as a narrative. I can't totally confirm the total validity of this story since I'm not in the industry but it lines up with a lot that's already public:

Supposedly around 2008/2009, Iwata saw that the Wii was doing amazing but, as a smart business man, knew it couldn't last. He saw that games were getting bigger and bigger budgets and longer and longer development times and was already seeing the problems it was causing the industry. He knew this couldn't last and took a very strong interest in indie development, honestly believing they were the future of gaming. Iwata then put into motion the plan to not only support and give resources to indie developers but eventually get to a point where the company could trust them with Nintendo's IPs.

Iwata's plan sounded good to the suits at Nintendo but they were super skeptical about trusting Indies with their IPs. Third parties was one thing and that was already a mixed bag. Again, Iwata believed in the potential of indie developers and basically told the other executives that, in due time, Indies would come to produce AAA games and told them to take all the time they needed to see things from his point of view. The rumor was that the endgame of Iwata's plan was two fold: trust an indie with one of their big IPs and trust an indie to successfully revive a dead Nintendo IP.

Unfortunately, the executives didn't really see things from Iwata's point of view until after his passing and during the early days of the Switch. They finally realized that Indies were something to take seriously and then were on the lookout for Indies that could handle Iwata's two project ideas. Obviously, Cadence of Hyrule was the first and went with that one first because they considered it the bigger risk (flashbacks of the CD-I). The game was a huge success and critically acclaimed and then, almost a decade later, Nintendo was finally confident that it could trust indies with notable projects with their IPs.

In a sense, the dead franchise revival is meant to be a fulfillment of Iwata's plan, a realization of his faith in indie developers, and the kick off of a new era for Nintendo. This is also why I've kept it secret because it's a big deal and, symbolically, it's a hell of a statement about not only Iwata's legacy but his vision, trust, and even love of the gaming industry. I'm getting choked up typing that but, like Ultimate, I feel it's one of Iwata's final gifts to Nintendo fans.

NES/indie games: as an extension of the above, Nintendo wants to show it trusts Indies with their IPs and is supposedly very open to dusting off their more obscure and older IPs for the sake of Indies breathing new life into them. Basically the rumor is that these three games are essentially "Phase Two" of Nintendo trusting Indies with their IPs. Like I said, details are scarce. Three NES classics (no sequels and not Japanese exclusives) and three seperate indie developers Nintendo decided it could trust with them. My guy strongly believed he knew one of them but didn't want it shared and his educated guess for another was Balloon Fight. Apparently Nintendo told these developers to take all the time they needed to impress them with the final product and it's not known when they're coming but one of my guys was very confident one would be a 2020 release, maybe as soon as the end of the summer.
My God; Iwata's plan for indie devs and Nintendo IPs sounds like a big-brain manga arc. Iwata's mind peered beyond his time and foresaw the indie dev boom we've seen these past years. If one thinks about it, albeit to Company executives it may seem like too much of a risk to assume; it can turn out to be the "natural" course of action. Most indie devs are made of people that in their youth they played countless hours of their favorite video games made by (you guessed it) first party (mostly Nintendo) and most big third party Companies (Konami, Capcom, Bandai Namco, etc.). While big company devs have a mentality of innovation and trying out new mechanics or implementing different styles to decades-old franchises (that at times result in fans being displeased), indie devs know in the hearts what fans REALLY want to see in said beloved franchises. We've seen some instances in which due to third parties not attending certain IP fanbases, indie devs have risen to the cause and developed games that would come to be known as spiritual successors to forgotten franchises. Some examples include:
  • Bloodstained: kickstarted by Lord Iga (Koji Igarashi) himself, the mastermind behind some of Castlevania's best entries (Casltevania III, and Symphony of the Night). The game brought that metroidvania style of gameplay reminiscent of Symphony of the Night and depending on the system fans played it, it was a great experience. However thanks to the folks at Inti Creates (a bit on them next), they went ahead and launched Bloodstained: Curse of the Moon (and part 2 recently) which plays more like Castlevania III (MUCH better in fact). And what of Konami? They're still focused on mobile and pachinko machines.
  • Azure Striker Gunvolt: now this IP was born during the times in which Capcom had apparently forgotten about the Mega Man franchise, and around the time former Capcom employee Inafune was working on Mighty No. 9 (a Mega Man "spiritual successor"). Unfortunately for Mighty No. 9, the game ended up being a bit janky however; Inti was on the case and released Azure Striker Gunvolt (looked more like a Mega Man Zero/ZX successor). Boy did this game deliver (and it's sequel and spinoff did as well). The IP gained such traction that Gunvolt has even appeared in crossovers like Nicalis' Blade Strangers; a fighting game that brings notable indie characters, and some of Code of Princess' cast to the roster. Although crossovers between indie IPs shouldn't come as surprising since it seems to be much easier than big third party crossovers. Now luckily, Capcom caught on the idea quick and got back to giving the Mega Man IP some love and fortunately we got Mega Man 11, and some nice Legacy Collections for the meantime (X9 soon maybe?).
 

super88cloud

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 26, 2019
Messages
340
Switch FC
Sw-1747-1648-3976
Question for the Geno thread:
If Mallow got in instead of Geno, would you be equally happy?

Please specify if you beat Super Mario RPG in your answer
I'd be a tiniest bit dissapointed but still extremely happy.
I've watched my brother beat it acouple of times,and many times reached the shark boss guy. And ndidn't went past that because every time, something happened to my save file or pc. Wasn't until the snes classic came around that I finally sat down and beat the whole game.

It was my last snes game I had before the power cable crapped the bed. It was the first game I played in an emulator. Windows 98. Game was in like 8+ floppy disks.
 

CopperKoopa

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 21, 2014
Messages
214
So, I noticed some of my comments the past couple of days have gotten some attention outside this site so I wanted to explain things so that there's no confusion about these rumors:

Donkey Kong: this story isn't new and I've talked about it since January. Markomaro was the one that broke the story last November here:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Newmarkomaro/status/1190952022813675521

On my end, I first openly talked about it here:

https://smashboards.com/threads/geno-♥♪-return-of-the-starsend-savior.446378/page-2366#post-23817138

Basically one of my "Christmas gifts" from one of my contacts was him telling me that three "missing" NSO SNES games would eventually be tied into (likely) E3 announcements.

From there, the evidence for a Donkey Kong just got stronger and stronger. Neither DK or Diddy's Smash Amiibo have been rereleased yet for some reason, pretty notable cameo in TOK, Dixie and Funky in MKT for seemingly no reason, DKC finally on the NSO, Nintendo's social media accounts talking a ton about DK since May, etc. There's a lot and it's been an avalanche this summer. When I shared this in the Dixie thread, a very notable insider reached out to me in private noting that they had heard the same things I had. Based on who it was, I definitely believe it's real.

Golden Sun: as I said, Golden Sun is one of the three dead franchises I've been teasing since last fall. I consider Naz a friend and I broke my silence to back up his claims. We both used to be in Sabi's circle and, honestly, aside from the NoA ambassador, he probably suffered from more abuse from Sabi and Maru than any of us. He deserves respect and I absolutely trust him.

Last October, Sabi's circle got a tip that Golden Sun was probably coming back. We were warned, however, the rumor came from a guy who had a history of half his stuff being true and half being total bull**** so to not take it super seriously. A few months pass and Nintendo strangely updates the Golden Sun trademark for the second time in two years. I then get a tip that Nintendo is very, very serious about reviving a lot of IPs in 2020 and beyond because of how stupidly well the Switch is doing. Like I said yesterday, Golden Sun was supposedly chosen not only because of Smash but because RPGs have been doing crazy good on the Switch and Nintendo wanted in on that. Like Naz said, he basically got a silver bullet within his own connections that Golden Sun was real around April and I definitely believe him based on things on my end.

The dead franchise being revived by an indie: there seems to be some confusion here so I'll clarify. Supposedly there's three NES/indie collabs coming and one dead franchise being handled by an indie that's supposed to be a major project ala Cadence of Hyrule. Here is the first time I specifically mentioned this project last December:

https://smashboards.com/threads/geno-♥♪-return-of-the-starsend-savior.446378/page-2016#post-23723478

Now, the story here is interesting because it doesn't start in December but August of last year. While in Sabi's circle, we got a tip that one of Nintendo's E3 2020 plans was to revive a specific dead franchise. I made note it and life went on. By January, things had branched out. This franchise had not one notable rumor but four. "Okay, there has to be something to this" and I'd argue, like DK, the evidence has gotten stronger and stronger over time.

Now, some backstory, supposedly this project ties into Iwata's plans for Indies. The following is basically a patchwork of things I have heard on the matter and put together as a narrative. I can't totally confirm the total validity of this story since I'm not in the industry but it lines up with a lot that's already public:

Supposedly around 2008/2009, Iwata saw that the Wii was doing amazing but, as a smart business man, knew it couldn't last. He saw that games were getting bigger and bigger budgets and longer and longer development times and was already seeing the problems it was causing the industry. He knew this couldn't last and took a very strong interest in indie development, honestly believing they were the future of gaming. Iwata then put into motion the plan to not only support and give resources to indie developers but eventually get to a point where the company could trust them with Nintendo's IPs.

Iwata's plan sounded good to the suits at Nintendo but they were super skeptical about trusting Indies with their IPs. Third parties was one thing and that was already a mixed bag. Again, Iwata believed in the potential of indie developers and basically told the other executives that, in due time, Indies would come to produce AAA games and told them to take all the time they needed to see things from his point of view. The rumor was that the endgame of Iwata's plan was two fold: trust an indie with one of their big IPs and trust an indie to successfully revive a dead Nintendo IP.

Unfortunately, the executives didn't really see things from Iwata's point of view until after his passing and during the early days of the Switch. They finally realized that Indies were something to take seriously and then were on the lookout for Indies that could handle Iwata's two project ideas. Obviously, Cadence of Hyrule was the first and went with that one first because they considered it the bigger risk (flashbacks of the CD-I). The game was a huge success and critically acclaimed and then, almost a decade later, Nintendo was finally confident that it could trust indies with notable projects with their IPs.

In a sense, the dead franchise revival is meant to be a fulfillment of Iwata's plan, a realization of his faith in indie developers, and the kick off of a new era for Nintendo. This is also why I've kept it secret because it's a big deal and, symbolically, it's a hell of a statement about not only Iwata's legacy but his vision, trust, and even love of the gaming industry. I'm getting choked up typing that but, like Ultimate, I feel it's one of Iwata's final gifts to Nintendo fans.

NES/indie games: as an extension of the above, Nintendo wants to show it trusts Indies with their IPs and is supposedly very open to dusting off their more obscure and older IPs for the sake of Indies breathing new life into them. Basically the rumor is that these three games are essentially "Phase Two" of Nintendo trusting Indies with their IPs. Like I said, details are scarce. Three NES classics (no sequels and not Japanese exclusives) and three seperate indie developers Nintendo decided it could trust with them. My guy strongly believed he knew one of them but didn't want it shared and his educated guess for another was Balloon Fight. Apparently Nintendo told these developers to take all the time they needed to impress them with the final product and it's not known when they're coming but one of my guys was very confident one would be a 2020 release, maybe as soon as the end of the summer.
Thanks for the insight. I really appreciate it. I was starting to think maybe it was going to be Adventures of Lolo based on some other things you said and it's history with Iwata but that was also a three-game series at least on the NES, more sequels on other systems. I'm assuming the VS arcade titles don't actually count as official sequels because technically Balloon Fight does have one of those. I'm still sticking to a Splatoon-style Balloon Fight revival, full on post-apocalyptic racer Mach Rider, updated online Ice Climber or something really off the wall like an arena shooter Wild Gunman or retro 2D beat em up Urban Champion. IDK. It has to be something like that. Can't be Excitebike or the other more obvious choices because they've got sequels and such.
 

Firox

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 7, 2019
Messages
2,687
Smash is a dead franchise if that happens. That'll be a hard pass from me.
I wouldn't call it "dead" per se, but definitely a shadow of its former self. If nothing else, it would create the inevitable schism in the fanbase that I predicted where a sizeable amount of the people would stay with Ultimate and turn it into the next Melee. I'm staunchly of the belief that if Nintendo/Sakurai don't manage to make Smash 6 BIGGER than Ultimate, it will be a flop by comparison.

My current pass predictions are Geno and a green space marine of some description
.....YES.
 
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