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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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super88cloud

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You guys know that marty could be lying his ears off and doomguy could still be coming, right?
I am still laughing at the idea of seeing the doomguys face react to damage in the corner of the screen.

Also, another mother game by toby fox is such a no brainer and an ascended fanboy trope.
It seems likely, maybe after deltarune?

Balloon fighter is an odd pick to revive. Maybe those guys behind towerfall could give it a dust off.

Also, geno seemed cooler in my mind before this last playthrough but he is pretty simple.
 

super88cloud

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You guys know that marty could be lying his ears off and doomguy could still be coming, right?
I am still laughing at the idea of seeing the doomguys face react to damage in the corner of the screen.

Also, another mother game by toby fox is such a no brainer and an ascended fanboy trope.
It seems likely, maybe after deltarune?

Balloon fighter is an odd pick to revive. Maybe those guys behind towerfall could give it a dust off.

Also, geno seemed cooler in my mind before this last playthrough but he is pretty simple.
-----
Double posst because of crappy internet.
 
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D

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I said it before, and I say it again. The only way Smash can live on moving forward from console to console is through ports of Ultimates. With every DLC character, the shot themself even more in the foot. I can´t for the life of me, see the casual market (which is the largest market for this game) be interested if they see the game even contain half of the current roster... The only thing I can see them think is (myself included)... "why do I want to buy this when I have Ultimate, it is just a waste of money".
Yeah, I agree with this. It could be a port with more DLC added to it (along with the DLC this game would already have).
 

Enigma735

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I see a lot of people here posting predictions for the characters in this Fighters Pass, but I would love to do something different then that. Instead, I will post my predictions for 5 of the most likely characters I can see being bonus characters if we are in fact in for some. I know bonus fighters probably won't happen, but I thought it would be fun to talk about anyways. Besides, its something to talk about given this whole Nintendo drought. :p

(Also, these 5 characters I chose are just first-party, seeing how it wouldn't make sense for someone like Master Chief or Dante to just bring themselves with no stage or music)
Anyways, let's start!

1: Waluigi - As I said yesterday, Waluigi seems far more likely to be a bonus character given the fact that their isn't a whole lot he could bring to the table as a full on Fighters Pass-character. BUT, Waluigi is a huge fan-request and I am sure Sakurai would consider Waluigi given his popularity. If we are in for bonus fighters, then I will go as far as to say Waluigi would be a lock.

2: Dixie Kong - Just like Waluigi, their isn't a whole lot Dixie could bring to the table for a full on Fighters Pass, but she feels extremely missing from the roster. She is an important character in the Donkey Kong franchise and is the secondary sidekick right after Diddy. We could also use more Donkey Kong characters and Diddy would EASILY be the next one to choose after King K. Rool. If we are in for bonus characters, then I think she will have a high chance of happening.

3: Impa - I'm pretty sure everyone here can agree that Zelda is in desperate need of another rep. The last true new Zelda rep we had was back in MELEE (I don't consider Toon Link new given he is just a clone of Link) and with a franchise as big as Zelda, it is definitely jarring. The reason I say Impa probably has the best chance is simply because she is actually a pretty iconic character who, much like Link, Zelda and Ganondorf, has multiple versions and incarnations of that character. I know some people say Skull Kid has a better chance, but personally, if any Zelda rep were to happen imo, the most likely to me is Impa.

4: Bandanna Waddle Dee - Much like Zelda, we could REALLY use some more Kirby reps. The last Kirby reps we've gotten were Meta Knight and King Dedede who were both introduced in Brawl. As such, I just feel like its time for another one. Kirby is basically Sakurai's baby so I am sure he wouldn't be against adding another Kirby character to the fray. Bandanna Waddle Dee would also complete the Kirby quartet, as Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede and Bandanna Waddle Dee are the main protagonists of many Kirby games. (Hell, I'd even argue Bandanna Waddle Dee is the secondary protagonist right after Kirby). I know Sakurai said he doesn't want to over-prioritize his own franchises, nor is he a fan of modern Kirby, but Bandanna Waddle Dee is one of those characters that just feels missing and I feel just for completion's sake, Bandanna Waddle Dee could join the roster JUST for that reason.

5: Balloon Fighter - This is my wild card pick for a bonus character, but hear me out. We still haven't gotten our usual retro rep for this game yet and Balloon Fighter was a character that was considered by Sakurai back in Melee as a potential retro rep, until obviously he went with the Ice Climbers. Not only that, but Balloon Fighter can be that Iwata-tribute character, seeing as how Iwata has directed Balloon Fight and basically came up with the entire concept. And seeing how Ultimate is supposed to be a love letter to Iwata, I am sure Sakurai would be down to include a character from a game Iwata helped develop. As such, I feel like the Balloon Fighter, oddly enough, is a slept on pick and I do think this could be a top contender for a bonus character after the Pass.

So yeah, these are my ideas for the most likely bonus characters. Would love to hear what you guy's think since I think this is a pretty interesting discussion. I would also love to hear what predictions you all have for bonus characters, if we are in for some.
 

valkiriforce

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Question for the Geno thread:
If Mallow got in instead of Geno, would you be equally happy?

Please specify if you beat Super Mario RPG in your answer
To put Mallow in before Geno as an actual fighter would feel like a huge and blatant slap to the face. Mallow's cool and all, but it's pretty obvious who people have been asking for over these past decades.

I've beaten Super Mario RPG plenty of times, it's one of those games I revisit every once in a long while. I first beat it around 2003/2004, and it was a used copy I bought from GameStop over the summer of 2003, which I still have today.

As for the Doomguy/Geno stuff, that's something I wish we'd see continue in all of those wonderful memes and art pieces like the one where Geno is standing on Doomguy's shoulder while he's fighting off the other possible DLC characters while holding the Smash invite. I love those memes.

Speaking for myself on the whole cacomallow camaraderie, honestly while Super Mario RPG is one of my all-time favorite video games, I'm also a huge fan of the classic Doom games and they're some of the best FPS games I've played. Yet despite Doomguy seeming less likely I'd still love to see a mii gunner outfit or helmet even. Heck I'd be down for some FPS-themed mii costumes (maybe a Gordon Freeman swordfighter with a crowbar?) but to get just a cacodemon hat without Doomguy as either a character or mii costume would feel like a hugely missed opportunity when they had the chance to please fans with something more connected to the face of Doom and FPS games in general. I'm willing at this point to accept that he probably isn't coming at this point, but for me the highest priority is getting our little blue rocket-propelled action figure in this game.

So yeah, for me seeing Geno and Doomguy teaming up it's more like a, "too amazing and good to be true" thing, much like Smash itself.
 

UltimateCyborgOverlord

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So yeah, these are my ideas for the most likely bonus characters. Would love to hear what you guy's think since I think this is a pretty interesting discussion. I would also love to hear what predictions you all have for bonus characters, if we are in for some.
So I've had a thought about this whole thing and I'm gonna go off this assumption assuming Waluigi is real 2401: All bonus fighters will be Assist Trophies upgraded. Why stop at Waluigi? Especially if each bonus is meant to promote something, then Nintendo can just take Nintendo owned Assist Trophy characters and upgrade em. And maybe even the "hittable" Assist Trophies might better translate into fighters (reusable assets, etc. I'm not a programmer, just guessing)

1. Waluigi. He's been rumored forever and can promote basically any given Mario Sports title. Plus, to tie this into Geno, he could be the "fakeout" part of a K. Rool style trailer for Geno.

2. Krystal. NORMALLY I wouldn't entertain this, but like... the Star Fox section of the website glitched out? That's weirdly specific. Unless Panther Caroso is gonna be Wolf's echo or Leon Powalski is gonna be some mashup of Falco and Wolf... I just don't get it... UNLESS Krystal is being upgraded from Assist Trophy like the Waluigi man! Also weirdly, if that Rare Replay or some equivalent of is indeed coming to Switch, and Star Fox Adventures is included in it, she could promote that. If Chief is indeed coming, Star Fox would be a way to have that trailer (have a big Star Fox scene with Krystal, then a transmission comes in and it's Chief)

3, Ghirahim. Namely to promote a Skyward Sword HD should something like that come, PLUS it'd tie into the Zelda section of the website glitching out. There already is a Skyward Sword stage, so he wouldn't necessitate a new stage.

4. Klaptrap. HEAR ME OUT! The DK part of the website glitched out. Unless something about this upcoming DK game (Assuming it's happening) is SO AMAZING it requires the full Fighter Pack treatment in the Pass, then perhaps it could join in on the "Upgraded Assist Trophy" bonus characters. Klaptrap is the only hittable DK Assist Trophy. Klaptrap would be "one last weirdo character ala Plant", he'd be the Diddy to K. Rool's Donkey. Then it'd be "2 Kongs, 2 Kremlings" for playable DK fighters.
 

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NordicOS

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Would y'all mind sending me your best Geno memes, it's for a special project after he gets in
 

StrangeKitten

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Geno's cool! He would make me happy due to his coolness and feeling relieved that he finally made it. I'd also be excited to use the timed hits mechanic, which I can see working way better with Geno than with Mallow.

Mallow is adorable, might dethrone Greninja as the cutest fighter in Ultimate (Yes, Greninja is cuter than Yoshi or Isabelle don't @ me). I'd squee with delight at the cute cloudpuff being playable! Though I would also find it to be a very vexing choice to add Mallow when they know darn well the fans want Geno.

I'd be happy to get either character for different reasons. I'd be happier to get Geno, albeit only slightly. And yup I've beat SMRPG!
 

Let Geno Smash

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So I've had a thought about this whole thing and I'm gonna go off this assumption assuming Waluigi is real 2401: All bonus fighters will be Assist Trophies upgraded. Why stop at Waluigi? Especially if each bonus is meant to promote something, then Nintendo can just take Nintendo owned Assist Trophy characters and upgrade em. And maybe even the "hittable" Assist Trophies might better translate into fighters (reusable assets, etc. I'm not a programmer, just guessing)

1. Waluigi. He's been rumored forever and can promote basically any given Mario Sports title. Plus, to tie this into Geno, he could be the "fakeout" part of a K. Rool style trailer for Geno.

2. Krystal. NORMALLY I wouldn't entertain this, but like... the Star Fox section of the website glitched out? That's weirdly specific. Unless Panther Caroso is gonna be Wolf's echo or Leon Powalski is gonna be some mashup of Falco and Wolf... I just don't get it... UNLESS Krystal is being upgraded from Assist Trophy like the Waluigi man! Also weirdly, if that Rare Replay or some equivalent of is indeed coming to Switch, and Star Fox Adventures is included in it, she could promote that. If Chief is indeed coming, Star Fox would be a way to have that trailer (have a big Star Fox scene with Krystal, then a transmission comes in and it's Chief)

3, Ghirahim. Namely to promote a Skyward Sword HD should something like that come, PLUS it'd tie into the Zelda section of the website glitching out. There already is a Skyward Sword stage, so he wouldn't necessitate a new stage.

4. Klaptrap. HEAR ME OUT! The DK part of the website glitched out. Unless something about this upcoming DK game (Assuming it's happening) is SO AMAZING it requires the full Fighter Pack treatment in the Pass, then perhaps it could join in on the "Upgraded Assist Trophy" bonus characters. Klaptrap is the only hittable DK Assist Trophy. Klaptrap would be "one last weirdo character ala Plant", he'd be the Diddy to K. Rool's Donkey. Then it'd be "2 Kongs, 2 Kremlings" for playable DK fighters.
Can you imagine that? K Rool is fighting against DK and Diddy (Also with Banjo if Microsoft would like to play the ball) with a GankPlankGalleon remix but then K Rool call one of his Kremlings, it's klaptrap. He bites K Rool qnd the Splash Screen appear KlapTrap bit the competition
 
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TheBeastHimself

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Did the notion of potential bonus characters come from Small Battlefield dropping?

I personally don't really see it happening at all, unless there's ONE bonus character like Piranha Plant. In a Famitsu column written by Sakurai (release mid-July), he states "Only five DLC fighters left now! Once I'm done with these, it'll mark the end of our continuous development since Smash for Wii U/3DS." You can read more about that here.

I don't know about you, but that makes it pretty clear that a handful of bonus characters have a pretty slim chance of happening. Yes, it is true Sakurai often contradicts himself and proves himself wrong (Ridley; more games after Brawl), BUT realistically, development for Ultimate has to end at some point, and after receiving so much content in the base game, we are receiving 12 DLC characters (Plant included). The fact that we are getting not 5, but 6 DLC characters in FP2 is a miracle itself.

I still feel like Small Battlefield was, well, a small bonus, something that wasn't too demanding for the developers to whip up. I don't think that was foreshadowing anything.

Again, I might be proven wrong because we're talking about Sakurai here. However, Smash 4 development began right after Kid Icarus Uprising release in early 2012, and Smash Ultimate development began immediately after Smash 4 development ended in 2016. By the time the last DLC character comes out, Sakurai would've been working on Smash nonstop for 9 years.

I think Sakurai is truthful when he says the last DLC character will indeed be the last, with very slight wiggle room if we're that lucky. The man needs a break, he's been working himself down to the bone for about a decade, to the point where he has developed serious health issues. If you expect more characters after FP2, that's your choice and there's nothing wrong with it, but realistically speaking, I don't see it as feasible at all.
 

Enigma735

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4. Klaptrap. HEAR ME OUT! The DK part of the website glitched out. Unless something about this upcoming DK game (Assuming it's happening) is SO AMAZING it requires the full Fighter Pack treatment in the Pass, then perhaps it could join in on the "Upgraded Assist Trophy" bonus characters. Klaptrap is the only hittable DK Assist Trophy. Klaptrap would be "one last weirdo character ala Plant", he'd be the Diddy to K. Rool's Donkey. Then it'd be "2 Kongs, 2 Kremlings" for playable DK fighters.
All I gotta say for this one is...

KLAPTRAP MAINS RISE UP!
Did the notion of potential bonus characters come from Small Battlefield dropping?

I personally don't really see it happening at all, unless there's ONE bonus character like Piranha Plant. In a Famitsu column written by Sakurai (release mid-July), he states "Only five DLC fighters left now! Once I'm done with these, it'll mark the end of our continuous development since Smash for Wii U/3DS." You can read more about that here.

I don't know about you, but that makes it pretty clear that a handful of bonus characters have a pretty slim chance of happening. Yes, it is true Sakurai often contradicts himself and proves himself wrong (Ridley; more games after Brawl), BUT realistically, development for Ultimate has to end at some point, and after receiving so much content in the base game, we are receiving 12 DLC characters (Plant included). The fact that we are getting not 5, but 6 DLC characters in FP2 is a miracle itself.

I still feel like Small Battlefield was, well, a small bonus, something that wasn't too demanding for the developers to whip up. I don't think that was foreshadowing anything.

Again, I might be proven wrong because we're talking about Sakurai here. However, Smash 4 development began right after Kid Icarus Uprising release in early 2012, and Smash Ultimate development began immediately after Smash 4 development ended in 2016. By the time the last DLC character comes out, Sakurai would've been working on Smash nonstop for 9 years.

I think Sakurai is truthful when he says the last DLC character will indeed be the last, with very slight wiggle room if we're that lucky. The man needs a break, he's been working himself down to the bone for about a decade, to the point where he has developed serious health issues. If you expect more characters after FP2, that's your choice and there's nothing wrong with it, but realistically speaking, I don't see it as feasible at all.
Thats fair. I'm not even expecting bonus fighters myself either but honestly, I wouldn't put it past Sakurai. Sakurai always goes the extra mile with everything he does, and it wouldn't be surprising to see him add even more.
 

CopperKoopa

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Some more Geno theorycrafting here, but an odd one. Will he come with the Mario series emblem and be included in the library of songs/characters/stages? Or will he be independent?
 

UltimateCyborgOverlord

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TO BE FAIR.... during that Min Min video, Sakurai quite notably said that they'd make "at least" five more fighters, spawning much discussion about the phrasing of that sentence. That TECHNICALLY leaves the door open to the 4 WoL slots being filled, and if they ARE adding 4 more bonus, then, as I've theorized, having them be upgraded Assist Trophies would be neato because it could be built using the assets that already exist for the Assist Trophy versions of those characters (once again, I'm NOT a programmer, I'm just guessing on this point)
 

TheBeastHimself

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Thats fair. I'm not even expecting bonus fighters myself either but honestly, I wouldn't put it past Sakurai. Sakurai always goes the extra mile with everything he does, and it wouldn't be surprising to see him add even more.
It's certainly a possibility. Watch my entire post will be proven dead wrong, and I'm fine with that, who the hell who would I be to turn down additional content? I'm just going to keep my attitude of we're not getting much more, and maybe one day I'll get a nice surprise! :) I just hope I'm not coming off as intrusive to other people's wishes/hopes because that is not my intention, I merely wished to share my thoughts.

Some more Geno theorycrafting here, but an odd one. Will he come with the Mario series emblem and be included in the library of songs/characters/stages? Or will he be independent?
I think he'll be considered apart of the Mario series, most likely. But I could also see him getting a special emblem and victory theme, being classified as apart of Super Mario RPG and not the Super Mario series, just so Square can get the point across "hey guys this is OUR character."
 

Powerman293

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The only way I see more characters after the pass is a port of Ultimate to the Switch's successor. But if they're porting it, it can give them the ability to increase the WoL slots even more than what they already have so who knows...
 

Rie Sonomura

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TO BE FAIR.... during that Min Min video, Sakurai quite notably said that they'd make "at least" five more fighters, spawning much discussion about the phrasing of that sentence. That TECHNICALLY leaves the door open to the 4 WoL slots being filled, and if they ARE adding 4 more bonus, then, as I've theorized, having them be upgraded Assist Trophies would be neato because it could be built using the assets that already exist for the Assist Trophy versions of those characters (once again, I'm NOT a programmer, I'm just guessing on this point)
At one point Pass 1 was gonna be the only pass too, but the phenomenal sales numbers convinced him otherwise. So if THIS sells well we could see the extra four

you’d need someone who CAN bring the sales numbers tho, I doubt Min Min alone will do it
 

TheBeastHimself

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At one point Pass 1 was gonna be the only pass too, but the phenomenal sales numbers convinced him otherwise. So if THIS sells well we could see the extra four

you’d need someone who CAN bring the sales numbers tho, I doubt Min Min alone will do it
My only question here is, was it ever stated by Sakurai that Pass 1 would've been it? I only ask because I don't recall Sakurai ever closing the door on FP2, similarly to how he flat out said "develop on Ultimate will come to a close after FP2."
 

StrangeKitten

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Geno better get included in the Mario library because, for as much as I love Beware the Forest's Mushrooms and Fight Against an Armed Boss, it's gonna get awfully tedious if those are the only two songs that play on his stage. I wouldn't even mind Square's usual two songs per character in this case, because you'd have over 100 songs on that stage if the other Mario songs can play there.

Or we'll get 20+ SMRPG songs which will be awesome
 

Fatmanonice

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TheBeastHimself TheBeastHimself The concept of bonus characters has been around since January and it stems from a couple of places:

-Mii Costume Guy's lengthy Mii costume list.

-Lolo rumors starting in December 2019.

-The enigmatic nature of Waluigi in Smash Speculation.

The last one is particularly notable because of the sheer amount of history behind it. Lloyd, Geno, Waluigi, and Ryu Hayabusa were the four characters heard in insider circles since 2018. Geno and Lloyd have been rumored with a bunch of stuff from their respective companies and Ryu might have been leakbait for Byleth since Tecmo was involved with Three Houses. That leaves Waluigi because first party content rumors have been few and far between. Waluigi is also a character that pretty much everyone regardless of their record has heard too. Bonus stages just adds even more intrigue because it finally eliminates the long standing hangup that giving Waluigi his own stage but not Bowser would be weird as hell.
 

Rie Sonomura

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My only question here is, was it ever stated by Sakurai that Pass 1 would've been it? I only ask because I don't recall Sakurai ever closing the door on FP2, similarly to how he flat out said "develop on Ultimate will come to a close after FP2."
Idr where I heard that but I know I heard it
 

TheBeastHimself

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TheBeastHimself TheBeastHimself The concept of bonus characters has been around since January and it stems from a couple of places:

-Mii Costume Guy's lengthy Mii costume list.

-Lolo rumors starting in December 2019.

-The enigmatic nature of Waluigi in Smash Speculation.

The last one is particularly notable because of the sheer amount of history behind it. Lloyd, Geno, Waluigi, and Ryu Hayabusa were the four characters heard in insider circles since 2018. Geno and Lloyd have been rumored with a bunch of stuff from their respective companies and Ryu might have been leakbait for Byleth since Tecmo was involved with Three Houses. That leaves Waluigi because first party content rumors have been few and far between. Waluigi is also a character that pretty much everyone regardless of their record has heard too. Bonus stages just adds even more intrigue because it finally eliminates the long standing hangup that giving Waluigi his own stage but not Bowser would be weird as hell.
That's interesting, I never realized how far back the discussion went. I'll keep this all in mind. I still don't think it's too likely, but who knows, let's hope I'm completely wrong!
 

Vector Victor

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And the thing is, Sakurai can say that everything is done after character 11. NINTENDO, on the other hand, can clearly say otherwise, like they have done before with Smash.

Smash makes Nintendo money and it helps advertise their games, either through newcomers or veteran reveals like Smash 4. So Nintendo would like to have Smash to keep going. And as Brawl showed, Sakurai doesn't even have to be notified of a new game that he is working on before Nintendo announces it.

Many have said that they want Sakurai to stop work on Smash to take a long break. The guy does a crapton of work, so its a very understandable request. However, this is also a job, a source of income. He can't go on break forever, and like any job, it will continue. Ironically, I think continuing DLC would be less stressful for him. Smash 4 was done, and Nintendo pushed him right into Ultimate. And Nintendo wants the money Smash brings in. I'm not a programmer, but I refuse to believe that DLC is harder to do in any aspect over making a new full fledged game. Its a good assumption that the longer Ultimate DLC goes, the less likely he will have to make a new game, giving him breathing room.

And, look at the pricing. The pass is $25 for 5 characters, somgs and stages. Almost a third of a price of a tiny fraction of content compared to the base game. So the fighter passes would be making more money for Nintendo than a full game, plus no excess stuff like new cartridges or game boxes; just a pass card for the code.

Since odds are we will never see this level of content in a Smash game, I'm all for them just adding onto Ultimate. No need to relicense 3rd parties and Cloud's 2 songs since they are already there.

So, yes, Nintendo, give Geno, Dixie, Mallow, Isaac, Crash, Sora, etc and shut up and take my money.
 

Giga Kaiju

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I have said this before but I'll say it again due to people bringing it up.

I want instead of the Chief, I want Doomguy/Doom Slayer to join the madness that is Smash. He can bring so much things to the game, the music being a huge boost imo.

While I don't mind both of them, I'd rather have the latter join alongside Geno. I like that concept of 'Heaven And Hell' better and it could be a very wholesome situation with two fanbases that United getting their respective wants.

Just like with Ridley's and K. Rool's at the beginning.


:bowser:.
 
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AceAttorney9000

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I think "bonus" characters could be a similar situation to clone characters in previous games and Echo Fighters: they'll happen if the developers have the time and resources for it after finishing the Fighters Pass 2 characters.
 

Fatmanonice

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That's interesting, I never realized how far back the discussion went. I'll keep this all in mind. I still don't think it's too likely, but who knows, let's hope I'm completely wrong!
Oh, I forgot; there's other aspects too:

-16 dummyslots in the game's code that appeared in January 2019.

-A sprawling list of conditions in which specific assist trophies can't be activated, heavily implying at least one AT is getting promoted to playable at some point :

https://www.serebii.net/smashbrosultimate/assisttrophy.shtml
 

Icewolff92

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okamifire

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I don´t see how the AT thing implies that an AT is getting promoted
I think he means there's just precedence set for pre-existing conditions in which an existing Assist Trophy could be excluded. Like if Waluigi or Isaac were included as a fighter, they could be kept as an assist trophy with conditions like "Cannot be called if Waluigi / Isaac is selected."

I personally don't think it implies this at all either. I absolutely think Assist Trophies could be eligible to be made fighters (and if I'm being honest I think a good handful of them should), but I don't think the conditions would make a lick of difference one way or another.
 

MattX20

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These next two weeks are going to be potential goldmines for speculation and or confirmations
 

YsDisciple

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Earlier I watched the start of the QuakeCon at Home Livestream and saw the new post-game campaign coming up for DOOM Eternal and got back to thinking on the DOOM franchise's legacy, the CacoMallow leak, and somewhere along that train of thought, the pondering and rummaging of theories regarding Premium Mii Costumes, fighter types, and iconic franchises triggered a conscious click. Before going into the details, I thought of adjusting my predictions (some being "wants" as well) on the remaining Challenger Packs (in no particular order... kinda).
  • Geno
  • Crash Bandicoot
  • DOOM Slayer
  • Dante
  • Master Chief
Before anyone points out the obvious apparent "game genre double dipping", the aforementioned pondering and rummaging of ideas is precisely what led me to consider the possibility of actually ending up getting Geno, DOOM Slayer, AND Master Chief in Fighters Pass Vol. 2.

First, the CacoMallow leak. Still hasn't been disproven, yet the leak apparently fell off the face of the Earth, but the fact that it remains as an unsolved mystery is what has preserved such a happenstance as a point in favor to both Geno, and the DOOM Slayer as potential upcoming fighters within the Pass. Some have argued that on the scenario that Master Chief comes as one of the DLC fighters, that they would add the Cacodemon Mii Hat to the Mii Costume wave associated to his Challenger Pack (as a consolation prize). I find the argument of this scenario a bit off because, the Cacodemon, I wouldn't see it as a "mascot" to the DOOM series. It would be like me saying that a Revenant Mii Costume would represent the DOOM franchise, or a Pinky-themed Costume, or a Pain Elemental hat. Personally I can't see a Cacodemon Mii Hat coming with a DLC fighter that is not the DOOM Slayer himself.

Now, as for Master Chief; it's been brought up on the thread a few times of the likelihood of Master Chief's inclusion in Ultimate due to rumors and such of possibly Nintendo and Microsoft having had further talks after E3 2019, when Banjo & Kazooie were revealed for the first Fighters Pass. In addition there have been rumors of something(s) RARE coming to the Switch as part of those talks that would also lead up (or tie-in) to Master Chief's inclusion.

In regards to "but the DOOM Slayer and Master Chief are almost like the same thing, you can't have both" argument; I'll admit that yes, on the surface both characters look exactly the same, but they aren't. In fact, DOOM and Halo are not exactly the same (1 to 1) games. The DOOM games focus more on fast paced playstyle from a first person perspective; slaying demons left and right, with little emphasis to exploration. Halo on the other hand has numerous instances of first person shooting and slashing up enemies, but there are instances in which the perspective switches to third person when riding vehicles or mounting turrets, etc. Also the aspect of exploration seems to hold a bit more weight than in DOOM. These are only some distinctions between both franchises. Following on this however, I remembered a complaint that often times came about among Smash fans when new characters with a specific playstyle were revealed; "another swordfighter?!".

It can be considered a fact by now that are perhaps "too many swordsman" in Smash, as referenced on Byleth's official reveal trailer. However, we've never heard/read (or at least it's not common) fans complaining of "too many brawlers" or "too many gunners". Huh, too many gunners eh? I can't remember if it was around Cuphead's Mii Costume reveal, or Vault Boy's, but I remember hearing/reading somewhere someone saying that "why is Mii Gunner getting all the good Mii Costumes?". So far we've gotten three "premium" Mii Costumes with Sans, Cuphead, and Vault Boy; all for Mii Gunner (oh lucky them!). *initiating conspiracy theory* How crazy it would be that, the fact that we got three premium Mii Costumes specifically for Mii Gunner was done so to warm players up to the prospect of incoming consecutive gunner-type Fighters in the upcoming Challenger Packs? In the first Fighters Pass in fact, we got three characters that fit (for the most part) the dreaded "swordfighter/swordsman" part; Joker, Hero, and Byleth. True, Joker and Byleth did ONLY use swords, and Hero could use skills/spells, but for the casual eye they were "swordsmen". Moving forward to Fighters Pass Vol. 2, some of the highly speculated names that have been discusses have been Geno, DOOM Slayer, and Master Chief; three characters that for the most part fit the role of a "gunner" type fighter. Like the alluded swordsmen from the first Pass, these three potential characters don't only use guns to fight, but they are their primary offensive means.

Dunno, these are only my humble opinions. Would be interesting tho if they panned out.
 

ForsakenM

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Did the notion of potential bonus characters come from Small Battlefield dropping?

I personally don't really see it happening at all, unless there's ONE bonus character like Piranha Plant. In a Famitsu column written by Sakurai (release mid-July), he states "Only five DLC fighters left now! Once I'm done with these, it'll mark the end of our continuous development since Smash for Wii U/3DS." You can read more about that here.

I don't know about you, but that makes it pretty clear that a handful of bonus characters have a pretty slim chance of happening. Yes, it is true Sakurai often contradicts himself and proves himself wrong (Ridley; more games after Brawl), BUT realistically, development for Ultimate has to end at some point, and after receiving so much content in the base game, we are receiving 12 DLC characters (Plant included). The fact that we are getting not 5, but 6 DLC characters in FP2 is a miracle itself.

I still feel like Small Battlefield was, well, a small bonus, something that wasn't too demanding for the developers to whip up. I don't think that was foreshadowing anything.

Again, I might be proven wrong because we're talking about Sakurai here. However, Smash 4 development began right after Kid Icarus Uprising release in early 2012, and Smash Ultimate development began immediately after Smash 4 development ended in 2016. By the time the last DLC character comes out, Sakurai would've been working on Smash nonstop for 9 years.

I think Sakurai is truthful when he says the last DLC character will indeed be the last, with very slight wiggle room if we're that lucky. The man needs a break, he's been working himself down to the bone for about a decade, to the point where he has developed serious health issues. If you expect more characters after FP2, that's your choice and there's nothing wrong with it, but realistically speaking, I don't see it as feasible at all.
Similar wording was used for FP1.

Remember that Sakurai didn't know about FP1 until sometime in Spring 2018. It's likely that he thought FP1 was the end (like so many of you in this thread did despite my evidence otherwise) but guess what happened?

How many times have you thought you were done with something only to find out you weren't?

It's actually that simple.
 

Rie Sonomura

fly octo fly
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Similar wording was used for FP1.

Remember that Sakurai didn't know about FP1 until sometime in Spring 2018. It's likely that he thought FP1 was the end (like so many of you in this thread did despite my evidence otherwise) but guess what happened?

How many times have you thought you were done with something only to find out you weren't?

It's actually that simple.
do you have what he said exactly during FP1?
 

CopperKoopa

Smash Journeyman
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TheBeastHimself TheBeastHimself The concept of bonus characters has been around since January and it stems from a couple of places:

-Mii Costume Guy's lengthy Mii costume list.

-Lolo rumors starting in December 2019.

-The enigmatic nature of Waluigi in Smash Speculation.

The last one is particularly notable because of the sheer amount of history behind it. Lloyd, Geno, Waluigi, and Ryu Hayabusa were the four characters heard in insider circles since 2018. Geno and Lloyd have been rumored with a bunch of stuff from their respective companies and Ryu might have been leakbait for Byleth since Tecmo was involved with Three Houses. That leaves Waluigi because first party content rumors have been few and far between. Waluigi is also a character that pretty much everyone regardless of their record has heard too. Bonus stages just adds even more intrigue because it finally eliminates the long standing hangup that giving Waluigi his own stage but not Bowser would be weird as hell.
I still would like to think that Hayabusa was not leak bait for FE3H. He just seems like such a perfect character to include in the fighters pass and exactly up Sakurai's alley. I mean, him being leak bait, everybody thinking he was coming, and then no one knowing Byleth was coming kind of does tell a story. But Hayabusa is such a perfect character.... Ugh
 

Trevenant

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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Did the notion of potential bonus characters come from Small Battlefield dropping?

I personally don't really see it happening at all, unless there's ONE bonus character like Piranha Plant. In a Famitsu column written by Sakurai (release mid-July), he states "Only five DLC fighters left now! Once I'm done with these, it'll mark the end of our continuous development since Smash for Wii U/3DS." You can read more about that here.

I don't know about you, but that makes it pretty clear that a handful of bonus characters have a pretty slim chance of happening. Yes, it is true Sakurai often contradicts himself and proves himself wrong (Ridley; more games after Brawl), BUT realistically, development for Ultimate has to end at some point, and after receiving so much content in the base game, we are receiving 12 DLC characters (Plant included). The fact that we are getting not 5, but 6 DLC characters in FP2 is a miracle itself.

I still feel like Small Battlefield was, well, a small bonus, something that wasn't too demanding for the developers to whip up. I don't think that was foreshadowing anything.

Again, I might be proven wrong because we're talking about Sakurai here. However, Smash 4 development began right after Kid Icarus Uprising release in early 2012, and Smash Ultimate development began immediately after Smash 4 development ended in 2016. By the time the last DLC character comes out, Sakurai would've been working on Smash nonstop for 9 years.

I think Sakurai is truthful when he says the last DLC character will indeed be the last, with very slight wiggle room if we're that lucky. The man needs a break, he's been working himself down to the bone for about a decade, to the point where he has developed serious health issues. If you expect more characters after FP2, that's your choice and there's nothing wrong with it, but realistically speaking, I don't see it as feasible at all.
I agree with this but there is some other stuff I would add. Although it's apparently, in that column from Famitsu, that was the most definitive Sakurai has ever been on the topic in his columns. Every other time it was either no plans or he doesn't think. Her flat out said that after they have released it would be the end of Smash DLC and the continuous development of smash and that these would be the last 5. I feel people do need to start looking at what has been said as I feel that it is quite commonly flat out ignored or just not made aware of when trying to structure a judgement. It would somewhat be like Sakurai saying no Ridley in Smash 4 and then we get him. Sakurai always keeps his word when it is within the time containment of the games lifespan and only goes against it in the jump to different ones. And ARMS doesn't count because that was said to have been too late which isn't really the same as Sakurai saying so and so couldn't get in because he couldn't get them to function properly etc.

And what is the whole premise of bonuses? A bonus just sounds like it's something along the lines of Plant which is something you get for free but then have to pay for. And bonuses can't really work like that. If it's just being called that for the sole purpose of being 'extra' Sakurai has already precisely said that everything done from here on out is extra. So I'd say it is just extra DLC. Unless it's something like it lacks additional content idk
 
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In a serendipitous turn of events, I noticed on the Super Mario Wiki in Geno's trivia that while every other character uses a suit of a standard playing card deck, Geno's star is not an outlier, but instead an uncommonly used symbol for the jokers of a deck. I did a quick search and it turned out to be absolutely true. I never knew!

That whole "WILDCARD: NINTENDO" thing that Jeff Grubb has on his list sure does ring of a hint, now... and Jon's Clubhouse Games post from forever ago looks even more like a hint. Big tinfoil hat hours.
 

Sabrewulf238

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TO BE FAIR.... during that Min Min video, Sakurai quite notably said that they'd make "at least" five more fighters, spawning much discussion about the phrasing of that sentence.
I've taken this to mean that whatever happens we'll at least get the five fighter characters.

That is to say everything else (stages, music, other updates) could fall apart but they'd still aim to get those five fighter pass characters in at the bare minimum.
 

Fatmanonice

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I don´t see how the AT thing implies that an AT is getting promoted
Not necessarily that it confirms but it shows that the main obstacle to making an AT playable is a non issue. Waluigi is playable? Just turn off his AT when he's in game. Like the list I shared shows, it's a very, very extensively implemented feature in the game where probably like 80% of the ATs have at least one stage that they can't be activated on. Plus "spirits deconfirm" died a hard death a month and a half ago now and I seriously doubt Min Min will be the only promotion before the end of this game.
 

Spatulo

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In a serendipitous turn of events, I noticed on the Super Mario Wiki in Geno's trivia that while every other character uses a suit of a standard playing card deck, Geno's star is not an outlier, but instead an uncommonly used symbol for the jokers of a deck. I did a quick search and it turned out to be absolutely true. I never knew!

That whole "WILDCARD: NINTENDO" thing that Jeff Grubb has on his list sure does ring of a hint, now... and Jon's Clubhouse Games post from forever ago looks even more like a hint. Big tinfoil hat hours.
I think this warrants it
15C58659-A8EA-4ABD-9541-F38F1E83DE9E.gif
 
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