Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Mega_Mario_Man]

I still think it was a huge missed opportunity to not have Ms Pac Man as an echo in the bas game. She is a hugely iconic character and soldnmore then PacMan, and one of the first playable female characters in gaming. She could have very easily been an echo, heck even an alt skin, but nope.

I wonder if the ATGames debacle has anything to do with this not happening.

Then again, they do have her as a cameo on Pac-Land

 

[wynn728]

Guess Sakurai doesn't think indie characters would be fun to play.

 

[zferolie]

I wonder if the ATGames debacle has anything to do with this not happening.

Then again, they do have her as a cameo on Pac-Land

I haven't heard of that, what is the ATGames debacle?

Guess Sakurai doesn't think indie characters would be fun to play.
View attachment 254041

Ouch

 

[Mega_Mario_Man]

I haven't heard of that, what is the ATGames debacle?



Ouch

https://twitter.com/ShaunMusgrave/status/1176693140503154688 (it's a thread)

 

[Fatmanonice]

Fatmanonice isn't this video of GameXplain's technically a leak since it had Ridley and Daisy both in it? This was uploaded a day or two before E3 of 2018 just within a VERY short timeframe before their reveals.

First thing I'll note is that nothing definitive was speculated in this video. For example, saying "I think Ridley is coming to Smash" is different from saying "Ridley will be shown at E3." Keep in mind that Vergeben's leak was also already out by this time and had already caught a notable amount of attention, providing a clear comparison on a leak and merely speculation, potentially with insider info. It could be argued that they were being cheeky with this video but much more in your face than they do now, given how much the channel has exploded in size since E3 2018. Would something like this count as a leak? No because leaks are definitive and make conclusive statements. No vagueness, no wishy-washiness, just "this is going to happen, full stop." This is why I don't deal with absolutes because, with the rumors I get, I have no idea if they're true or false but I can make educated guesses based on what I know.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Guess Sakurai doesn't think indie characters would be fun to play.
View attachment 254041

It's not that, it's just Sakurai most of the time adds whoever he wants. Basically: Sakurai bias plays a role in the decision of who to add to the roster most of the time at least.

 

[zferolie]

https://twitter.com/ShaunMusgrave/status/1176693140503154688 (it's a thread)

Oh wow.... thats a huge can or worms that mess is... jesus

It's not that, it's just Sakurai most of the time adds whoever he wants. Basically: Sakurai bias plays a role in the decision of who to add to the roster most of the time at least.

We tend to forget about Sakurai Bias as a lot of times its also what the fans want... but maybe not this time... I hope not though...

 

[MisterMike]

First thing I'll note is that nothing definitive was speculated in this video. For example, saying "I think Ridley is coming to Smash" is different from saying "Ridley will be shown at E3." Keep in mind that Vergeben's leak was also already out by this time and had already caught a notable amount of attention, providing a clear comparison on a leak and merely speculation, potentially with insider info. It could be argued that they were being cheeky with this video but much more in your face than they do now, given how much the channel has exploded in size since E3 2018. Would something like this count as a leak? No because leaks are definitive and make conclusive statements. No vagueness, no wishy-washiness, just "this is going to happen, full stop."

Also because animations take quite a while to put together and when you're also working full-time running your own website, YouTube Channel and a podcast, stuff like that tends to take even longer.

This is why I don't deal with absolutes because, with the rumors I get, I have no idea if they're true or false but I can make educated guesses based on what I know.

A good call, Fatman. After all, only a Sith deals in absolutes.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

We tend to forget about Sakurai Bias as a lot of times its also what the fans want... but maybe not this time... I hope not though...

He throws the fans a bone every once in awhile Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo & Kazooie all being major examples for this game.

 

[zferolie]

He throws the fans a bone every once in awhile Ridley, K. Rool, and Banjo & Kazooie all being major examples for this game.

Indeed. Still, I was surprised some Sakuari Bais characters I was expecting never happened. Like we didn't get a retro nintendo character at all. You COULD maybe say K rool but I was thinking super retro. Every game has had at least 1 retro Rep(Ness, Ice Climbers and Game and Watch, Pit and ROB, Duck Hunt), and Sakurai didn't pick one for this game. Very odd.

 

[Fatmanonice]

So, the only reason I brought up the "lol, nope" pile is because it further solidified stuff that I have come across in the past year:

-Lloyd is pretty much the front runner for another Namco rep and Geno for another Square rep by a country mile based on what I know. Nightmare (and I guess technically Ms. Pac-Man) were Namco characters in the "lol, nope" pile and there was one Square Enix character (not Sora, Jesus...).

-Echoes are still toast. Again, two very obvious echoes got the thumbs down.

-Indies are probably toast too. Again, two indies swimming in the **** pile.

-If DLC has girl characters, it's not going to be a lot (maybe one or two). Half the names shared were female characters but arguably one has any real following but the fact this is the first time I've heard of any girl characters in any capacity doesn't exactly look good.

-Promotional characters are still not super likely in my eyes. Gooigi is probably the easiest promotional character they could have done but if Sakurai looked at that and said, "nah", doesn't exactly bode confidence in anyone else.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Indeed. Still, I was surprised some Sakuari Bais characters I was expecting never happened. Like we didn't get a retro nintendo character at all. You COULD maybe say K rool but I was thinking super retro. Every game has had at least 1 retro Rep(Ness, Ice Climbers and Game and Watch, Pit and ROB, Duck Hunt), and Sakurai didn't pick one for this game. Very odd.

Despite K. Rool not appearing in any games for years, I really wouldn't consider him retro since he is a major character in the DK franchise and has been in over a dozen games. A character that has only appeared in one or two games and hasn't appeared in almost 20 years is what I would consider retro. Geno being a example despite being 3rd party.

 

[pinshadow]

So, the only reason I brought up the "lol, nope" pile is because it further solidified stuff that I have come across in the past year:

-Lloyd is pretty much the front runner for another Namco rep and Geno for another Square rep by a country mile based on what I know. Nightmare (and I guess technically Ms. Pac-Man) were Namco characters in the "lol, nope" pile and there was one Square Enix character (not Sora, Jesus...).

-Echoes are still toast. Again, two very obvious echoes got the thumbs down.

-Indies are probably toast too. Again, two indies swimming in the **** pile.

-If DLC has girl characters, it's not going to be a lot (maybe one or two). Half the names shared were female characters but arguably one has any real following but the fact this is the first time I've heard of any girl characters in any capacity doesn't exactly look good.

-Promotional characters are still not super likely in my eyes. Gooigi is probably the easiest promotional character they could have done but if Sakurai looked at that and said, "nah", doesn't exactly bode confidence in anyone else.

the whole concept of a "lol, nope" list is super weird to me, didn't Nintendo pitch all the characters to Sakurai? Why would this random leaker/insider know this at all anyway, where is this information even coming from, especially if he's a guy at NoA? I get that he's gotten stuff right before but this just feels really off.

 

[zferolie]

So, the only reason I brought up the "lol, nope" pile is because it further solidified stuff that I have come across in the past year:

-Lloyd is pretty much the front runner for another Namco rep and Geno for another Square rep by a country mile based on what I know. Nightmare (and I guess technically Ms. Pac-Man) were Namco characters in the "lol, nope" pile and there was one Square Enix character (not Sora, Jesus...).

-Echoes are still toast. Again, two very obvious echoes got the thumbs down.

-Indies are probably toast too. Again, two indies swimming in the **** pile.

-If DLC has girl characters, it's not going to be a lot (maybe one or two). Half the names shared were female characters but arguably one has any real following but the fact this is the first time I've heard of any girl characters in any capacity doesn't exactly look good.

-Promotional characters are still not super likely in my eyes. Gooigi is probably the easiest promotional character they could have done but if Sakurai looked at that and said, "nah", doesn't exactly bode confidence in anyone else.

Interesting info gathered here. lloyd is cool, I just would prefer someone else, but I love Tales of too, so i wouldn;t mind him. Yeah no echos makes sense, I just wish more were in the base game(Ms pac Man, Medusa, Impa, Shadow for example). I would be the most upset of not a single Indie got in honestly. And I don't need many girls, just 1 or 2 would be nice. Ones that deserve it.

Despite K. Rool not appearing in any games for years, I really wouldn't consider him retro since he is a major character in the DK franchise and has been in over a dozen games. A character that has only appeared in one or two games and hasn't appeared in almost 20 years is what I would consider retro. Geno being a example despite being 3rd party.

Yeah geno would fit, but still, no retro in the base game just baffled me. That seemed like the 1 sakurai staple, as it seemed like Sakurai wanted and enjoyed bringing old characters back from the dead.

 

[Fatmanonice]

the whole concept of a "lol, nope" list is super weird to me, didn't Nintendo pitch all the characters to Sakurai? Why would this random leaker/insider know this at all anyway, where is this information even coming from, especially if he's a guy at NoA? I get that he's gotten stuff right before but this just feels really off.

This guy's not with NoA but, again... I have no idea where he gets his info from. How did he know Metroid Prime 4 was going to be delayed? How did he know Luminary was going to be the main Hero and that Hero was going to come with four different character ALTs? How did he know about the Megalomania track back in June? Beats me.

 

[Griselda]

This guy's not with NoA but, again... I have no idea where he gets his info from. How did he know Metroid Prime 4 was going to be delayed? How did he know Luminary was going to be the main Hero and that Hero was going to come with four different character ALTs? How did he know about the Megalomania track back in June? Beats me.

Luminary being the default for Hero would've been a pretty safe guess to make even without actually knowing, at the very least.

 

[Malo Mart]

Luminary being the default for Hero would've been a pretty safe guess to make even without actually knowing, at the very least.

Might be, but I think it was a little riskier than that given all the Erdrick talk back then.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Luminary being the default for Hero would've been a pretty safe guess to make even without actually knowing, at the very least.

Possibly but remember everyone and their grandma was saying "Erdrick, Erdrick, Erdrick" at the time, including S***, V****, Hitagi Tansut, and Xenother.

 

[Spongeboob]

Guess Sakurai doesn't think indie characters would be fun to play.
View attachment 254041

I don't know... I'm not a Sakurai, so I don't know what a Sakurai would feel about an indie character.

 

[Griselda]

Possibly but remember everyone and their grandma was saying "Erdrick, Erdrick, Erdrick" at the time, including S***, V****, Hitagi Tansut, and Xenother.

Might be, but I think it was a little riskier than that given all the Erdrick talk back then.

This is true, I suppose.

I think the 'people shouting names' part is the part I don't like the most about the whole leaking/speculating thing. Sure, it's nice to know who might be likely, but it gets a little grating after a while. Like when Hero was revealed, for me it was just like checking a box on a list because everyone'd been talking about them for so long.

 

[Malo Mart]

This is true, I suppose.

I think the 'people shouting names' part is the part I don't like the most about the whole leaking/speculating thing. Sure, it's nice to know who might be likely, but it gets a little grating after a while. Like when Hero was revealed, for me it was just like checking a box on a list because everyone'd been talking about them for so long.

I agree actually. I think the speculation scene is way more exciting when there's a decent pool of characters that might be likely, and not just some echochamber of the same one or two over and over. Last semester was really tiring because it was all "ERDRICKERDRICKERDRICK" and "STEVEBANJOSTEVEBANJOSTEVEBANJO" nonstop.

 

[Deleted member]

So, the only reason I brought up the "lol, nope" pile is because it further solidified stuff that I have come across in the past year:

-Lloyd is pretty much the front runner for another Namco rep and Geno for another Square rep by a country mile based on what I know. Nightmare (and I guess technically Ms. Pac-Man) were Namco characters in the "lol, nope" pile and there was one Square Enix character (not Sora, Jesus...).

-Echoes are still toast. Again, two very obvious echoes got the thumbs down.

-Indies are probably toast too. Again, two indies swimming in the **** pile.

-If DLC has girl characters, it's not going to be a lot (maybe one or two). Half the names shared were female characters but arguably one has any real following but the fact this is the first time I've heard of any girl characters in any capacity doesn't exactly look good.

-Promotional characters are still not super likely in my eyes. Gooigi is probably the easiest promotional character they could have done but if Sakurai looked at that and said, "nah", doesn't exactly bode confidence in anyone else.

That Square Enix character in the “lol nope” pile was Sephiroth because of his very long sword right?

 

[Captain Fun]

Possibly but remember everyone and their grandma was saying "Erdrick, Erdrick, Erdrick" at the time, including S***, V****, Hitagi Tansut, and Xenother.

Not trying to call you out or anything but I remember that some time ago, there was a 4chan post that “predicted” (it turned out to be a user’s wishlist) all 4 of Hero’s alts and you dismissed all of the choices as being obvious. I don’t know that guessing Luminary as the default is all that important to this guy’s credibility.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Not trying to call you out or anything but I remember that some time ago, there was a 4chan post that “predicted” (it turned out to be a user’s wishlist) all 4 of Hero’s alts and you dismissed all of the choices as being obvious. I don’t know that guessing Luminary as the default is all that important to this guy’s credibility.

Note the date. July 29th, a month and a half after Hero was revealed. Hindsight is always 20/20, especially from that distance. Like I say here a lot, 4chan is monkeys on typewriters incarnate. At any given point in time, there's going to be things on there that are guesses or wishlists that wind up being correct. That's just how 4chan is and the power of anonymity.

Add in: To add more to this and my stances of Erdrick pre E3:

https://smashboards.com/threads/geno-♥♪-return-of-the-starsend-savior.446378/page-977#post-23377692

https://smashboards.com/threads/geno-♥♪-return-of-the-starsend-savior.446378/page-473#post-22797177

https://smashboards.com/threads/geno-♥♪-return-of-the-starsend-savior.446378/page-366#post-22767175

https://smashboards.com/threads/geno-♥♪-return-of-the-starsend-savior.446378/page-633#post-22914472

 

[Datboigeno]

Not trying to call you out or anything but I remember that some time ago, there was a 4chan post that “predicted” (it turned out to be a user’s wishlist) all 4 of Hero’s alts and you dismissed all of the choices as being obvious. I don’t know that guessing Luminary as the default is all that important to this guy’s credibility.

july 2019 is well after hero was revealed lol

Also people are acting like Luminary was obvious but only a couple people back before his reveal even mentioned the possibility of him being the DQ rep or alts being other DQ protagonists and even then it was basically discarded as leakbait compared to it just being Erdrick for 99% of the time until the E3 reveal.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Luminary was hardly as an easy guess. I'm one of the few who was able to do so, but it's not like my reasons were akin to the real ones either. All that was really a thing at that point that we could tell is that the most recent version was easiest to promote overall. Erdrick being a bit of an unknown worldwide has really nothing to base it upon, as he was a planned part of Hero from the start. The only thing that's clear is Luminary was intentionally catered to in the product overall, but we don't need jack-all about the development or plans around that. Maybe Erdrick was thought of first. Before we knew Erdrick was a legitimate base costume, there was only evidence overall leading to Luminary intentionally being the star from the start. But details were given more fully. At some point, Sakurai may fully go over it. It could be simply SE wanting the latest one pushed, but keep in mind they're the ones who suggested more than just those two, which is funny since they're known for trying to keep it so Heroes can't be with each other in a crossover, making Smash unique about it.

Sure, the possibility exists(that somebody figured out all 4 alts), but it's not common for people to think beyond the leaked talk. I mean, it's the most talked about stuff. It's an influential thing. Going with the only knowledge one knows is logical. To be real, I only figured Erdrick was one of the costumes, and that Eight or Luminary was the default. Solo I didn't really know of anyway, and I had no real guess of how many costumes we'd have.

 

[Deleted member]

I still remember how people used to laugh at me and call me a madman when I said Eight was likely as an alt of Erdrick or Luminary back during the Google Theory crisis.

Glad to be the one who’s laughing now on that regard.

 

[YsDisciple]

... Quote...

*cries in Toroko*

Dang, what a dream come true it would be if at least Quote joined the roster as the indie rep. The ultimate encounter; Mega Man vs. Quote. Stage = Outer Wall (or the Balcony).

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

not Sora, Jesus...).

Why you sound so annoyed?

 

[Captain Fun]

july 2019 is well after hero was revealed lol

Also people are acting like Luminary was obvious but only a couple people back before his reveal even mentioned the possibility of him being the DQ rep or alts being other DQ protagonists and even then it was basically discarded as leakbait compared to it just being Erdrick for 99% of the time until the E3 reveal.

The 4chan post in question is from December 2018.

Not trying to act like the Luminary was obvious, but I couldn’t help but notice that Fatman’s opinion seemingly shifted on the matter.

 

[EarlTamm]

I doubt they will, but it would be really neat if they somehow gave a nod to the fact that both Link and Samus appeared in SMRPG. Don't know how, but it would be cool to reference.

 

[Axelocke]

I doubt they will, but it would be really neat if they somehow gave a nod to the fact that both Link and Samus appeared in SMRPG. Don't know how, but it would be cool to reference.

Imagine if it were Link and Samus in Geno's reveal trailer, as to give that **subtle** hint.
If we saw Mario, Peach, and Bowser, it'd be an easy guess.

 

[EarlTamm]

Imagine if it were Link and Samus in Geno's reveal trailer, as to give that **subtle** hint.
If we saw Mario, Peach, and Bowser, it'd be an easy guess.

That is probably the one way they could do it. Both would be great to see, though.

 

[link2702]

I doubt they will, but it would be really neat if they somehow gave a nod to the fact that both Link and Samus appeared in SMRPG. Don't know how, but it would be cool to reference.

Geno’s trailer starts with samus and link asleep in a bed?

Wait nvm that came out wrong

 

[MattX20]

Been playing You Don't Know Jack for the past few days. Any updates regarding Geno?

 

[MisterMike]

Geno’s trailer starts with samus and link asleep in a bed?

Wait nvm

I like where this is going.

 

[link2702]

I like where this is going.

I’m sure Link does as well.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Geno’s trailer starts with samus and link asleep in a bed?

Wait nvm that came out wrong

Fanfiction writers would like to know your location

 

[Andwooooo]

Oh man, if they started with Link and Samus sleeping, I’ve got a trailer I’d like to see. Can’t describe it on my phone though. Will come back to this.

 

[ivanlerma]

So, the only reason I brought up the "lol, nope" pile is because it further solidified stuff that I have come across in the past year:

-Lloyd is pretty much the front runner for another Namco rep and Geno for another Square rep by a country mile based on what I know. Nightmare (and I guess technically Ms. Pac-Man) were Namco characters in the "lol, nope" pile and there was one Square Enix character (not Sora, Jesus...).

-Echoes are still toast. Again, two very obvious echoes got the thumbs down.

-Indies are probably toast too. Again, two indies swimming in the **** pile.

-If DLC has girl characters, it's not going to be a lot (maybe one or two). Half the names shared were female characters but arguably one has any real following but the fact this is the first time I've heard of any girl characters in any capacity doesn't exactly look good.

-Promotional characters are still not super likely in my eyes. Gooigi is probably the easiest promotional character they could have done but if Sakurai looked at that and said, "nah", doesn't exactly bode confidence in anyone else.

which echoes are toast?