Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Fatmanonice]

Sort of half piggybacking on nessdeltarune00's second point from a few posts of theirs earlier, given yesterday's events and your own speculation train of thought, how likely in your current view is #5 to be an undiscussed unknown?

Also was going to address some of the other points in nessdeltarune00's post but looks like you guys have already said what I was thinking with far more eloquence than I have at 2:30 am lol

Honestly? Since you're tired, I'll spare you a paragraph and put it this way:

Lloyd = total rando >> Nightmare >>>> Sol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any of the characters seemingly hard deconfirmed for 5 by Sabi's Big Source ™.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I'm pretty much considering Banjo and Geno to be first party at this point.

So when its all said and done, Ultimate's roster addition will have more 3rd parties than 1st party. That just feels.... off.


Also, despite the big deal they made about them, I feel that they underutilized the echo fighter concept.

Yeah, a few more Echo Fighters as DLC would be nice:

/Boshi
/Medusa
/Metal Sonic
/Funky Kong
/Dry Bowser
/Black Shadow
/Demise

I can go on and on.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Honestly? Since you're tired, I'll spare you a paragraph and put it this way:

Lloyd = total rando >> Nightmare >>>> Sol >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any of the characters seemingly hard deconfirmed for 5 by Sabi's Big Source ™.

So either Lloyd or a curveball is most likely?

That is definitley interesting if I am reading this right. I always thought that Lloyd was the frontrunner, but apparently a curveball is just as likely, at least if I am reading this post correctly.

The VGAs will be very exciting this year, without a doubt.

 

[Deleted member]

That’s a fair point about Hero, put that way it doesn’t seem as much of a stretch.
Oh man, does your dream Isaac/Felix moveset have them changing Djinn to switch psynergy elements? Because that’d be so cool.

Yeah I thought it'd be cool for neutral B to switch Djinn like Shulk's arts, and then that changes the specials entirely. Like Jupiter and Mercury Djinn being recovery/support specials where Venus and Mars would be more focused on close/ranged attack specials.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Yeah, a few more Echo Fighters as DLC would be nice:

/Boshi
/Medusa
/Metal Sonic
/Funky Kong
/Dry Bowser
/Black Shadow
/Demise

I can go on and on.

You forgot:
/Octoling
/Zack Fair

 

[egaddmario]

I was hoping for more Nintendo characters like Dixie or Isaac. Looks like Geno's the closest we have to that.

Honestly, same. I'm a huge Nintendo purist and rarely buy third party games. But at this point, I've come to terms with the fact that most of the Nintendo characters I'd want were deconfirmed already. Springman, Rex, Waluigi, Isaac, Skull Kid, etc. And of the few who haven't, Chorus Kids and a retro pick, I don't have a lot of faith since DLC needs to be able to sell itself, which I don't think those could.

That being said, this game has given me SO much. It brought everyone back, gave us Ridley and K. Rool, and even someone I thought absolutely impossible but wanted to see in the form of Banjo. That this point, man, i'm just here for Sakurai's wild ride. The last character I want that I think truly stands a chance is Geno. Anyone else we get is icing on the cake.

 

[Organization XIII]

For what I want I've always wanted Isaac just Venus because that's always how I go through Golden Sun but really the great thing about Golden Sun is Isaac has so much from his game he could have like 30 different movesets and all fun.

 

[Zac's Realm]

Yeah, a few more Echo Fighters as DLC would be nice:

/Boshi
/Medusa
/Metal Sonic
/Funky Kong
/Dry Bowser
/Black Shadow
/Demise

I can go on and on.

/ Proto Man would have made me a very happy lad leading up to DLC. I was hoping that they'd do like. "Echo Packs" with a couple Echoes for the price of a normal Challenger Pack. Or just solo Echoes for a reduced price.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

You forgot:
/Octoling
/Zack Fair

And:

/Kasumi
/Proto Man
/Galacta Knight or Dark Meta Knight
/Ninten
/Impa
/Big Boss
/Ms. Pac-Man
/Raichu
Edit: /Hilda
/Jeanne

I didn't include /Dixie Kong because I think she is too unique to be a Echo. Semi-clone status at the least for Dixie.

 

[Spatulo]

You forgot:
/Octoling
/Zack Fair

Could do
/Geigue
/Dixie (they explicitly took out his tail attack)
/Ninten

 

[Fatmanonice]

How does Geno compared to all the names you've heard so far. If you were to personally rank them, where would Geno fare?

Rank as in positivity? Well, super condensed version: best: Lloyd. worst: can't share. Second worst is arguably Dante though. Of the ten, Geno's probably ranked 2nd or 3rd in "good PR." This largely comes from how he was sometimes knocked before Hero's release but when his name kept coming up afterwards people were like "oh, okay, guess he wasn't a red herring after all." Red herring/leakbait die and die hard once their actual target is released and the fact that Geno "survived" is very telling, in my opinion.

I guess that I misunderstood your post then.

But if that is the case, then why are you saying that there is a good chance that it could also be someone out of left field? If it really just boils down to those names?

That's the thing. I never said that it boils down to those names. These are just the names we've heard. Again, maybe two people heard Terry but dismissed him and some people sort of heard "a SEGA rep" but Joker was so far off the radar that nobody guessed it. This list is not definitive and it's extremely likely that not all these characters will make the cut in the end.

 

[Looma]

The image of Sephiroth being SE's fall guy is very amusing to me.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

/ Proto Man would have made me a very happy lad leading up to DLC. I was hoping that they'd do like. "Echo Packs" with a couple Echoes for the price of a normal Challenger Pack. Or just solo Echoes for a reduced price.

If Echo DLC was the only way we could get more Nintendo characters in the game, I would gladly take that option.

Could do
/Geigue
/Dixie (they explicitly took out his tail attack)
/Ninten

I think Dixie is too unique to be a Echo. But I respect your opinion so I ain't going to argue.

 

[Rikarte]

You forgot:
/Octoling
/Zack Fair

/Gen8 Pokemon Trainer aka Charizard only

 

[Ovaltine]

Whoof, a lot happened while I was busy last night, and while I was lurking, I didn't have much chance to give my input... and honestly, it only boils down to this:

Damn, the Smash community has gotten extra salt-filled since the RE spirits drop. I don't blame fans for being upset, by any means, but the amount of lashing out at other fan bases and people only seems to be getting worse with this as a catalyst. For the people who would rather not deal with that trash, I recommend being careful with Smash discussion until the initial wave of this passes.

That being said... ow. Having an entire series disconfirmed for wave 2 (and maybe even 3, if one should happen) via a random spirit event, a big-name third party franchise even, is a nasty blow. What made Nintendo think that was going to go over well?

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Yeah, a few more Echo Fighters as DLC would be nice:

/Boshi
/Medusa
/Metal Sonic
/Funky Kong
/Dry Bowser
/Black Shadow
/Demise

I can go on and on.

Personally, I don't see metal sonic as echo material, more semi clone. At the very least, they need to differentiate enough to give him the black shield. Final smash is similar enough that they could just remove the chaos emeralds and make it the v max overdrive

 

[Spatulo]

I think Dixie is too unique to be a Echo. But I respect your opinion so I ain't going to argue.

I don’t disagree but you could also say the same for Dark Samus, so I see getting her as an echo as better than nothing.

 

[domriver]

Thank you Fatmanonice for your input - it is always appreciated. I personally would not mind Nightmare ( i prefer Ivy) jeje. However, for me at least im here for Geno. Im hoping his inclusion is upcoming soon because this wait and is just blehhhhhh. I have been waiting Since Brawl. For Smash and Wii U i bought his Mii Costume in hopes that if Nintendo saw the sales it would make them go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........... maybe just maybe...
I have to ask though Fatmanonice is there any GENO information that you can not divulge? Or are we pretty much up to date with info regarding our Puppet Geno?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Personally, I don't see metal sonic as echo material, more semi clone. At the very least, they need to differentiate enough to give him the black shield. Final smash is similar enough that they could just remove the chaos emeralds and make it the v max overdrive

A lot of people wanted Shadow as Sonic's Echo, but personally I would prefer Metal Sonic. To me, Metal Sonic as a Echo Fighter would make more sense than Shadow as he is a robot version of Sonic whether than a entirely new character. Of course Metal Sonic could be more unique, but I would settle with him being a Echo.

 

[Convoy]

/Metal Sonic

Unpopular Opinion: if anyone should be Sonic's echo it should be Blaze.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Unpopular Opinion: if anyone should be Sonic's echo it should be Blaze.

Edit: Sorry about that, I read your post thinking you were saying my opinion sucked.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

A lot of people wanted Shadow as Sonic's Echo, but personally I would prefer Metal Sonic. To me, Metal Sonic as a Echo Fighter would make more sense than Shadow as he is a robot version of Sonic whether than a entirely new character. Of course Metal Sonic could be more unique, but I would settle with him being a Echo.

I see either of them being semi clones at best. But I'll begrudgingly concede that, considering all the chaos control ****, metal would be the more likely echo. (But only if they fix sonic's boring moveset) (also shadow can't have guns. We're gonna go ahead and pretend that shadow the hedgehog the game never existed)

Unpopular Opinion: if anyone should be Sonic's echo it should be Blaze.

You're right! That IS an unpopular opinion!

 

[ForsakenM]

Real
Irving
HOURS

YEP, I'M ALL ABOARD THAT IRVING TRAIN NOW BOYS! WE RIDE MASAHIRO SAKURAI'S WILD RIDE 'TIL WE DIE! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO~!

Spoiler: WE RIDE THIS TRAIN BOIIIIIZ~!

So guys, I know this is the Geno thread and I remind everyone of this all the time but I just want to talk about why I root for Lloyd so hard, and fun fact it's actually not for me at all.

So I have a friend, her online name is mostly known as Leena. She used to run an online RWBY AR site that I was a part of and got into so much I bought a T-Shirt because I loved it and wanted to support the site. Anyway, I've talked to her on and off and I don't know her as well as I could or should, but she's had a LOT happen in her life and it's affected her badly enough that it keeps helping mess up her life in the present too. Very recently I spoke with her and she's in a better place both emotionally, physically and in progression as far as life goes...but before then, I was talking about Smash Ultimate with her speculating possible characters and how much I wanted Geno...I was just trying to distract her from her life falling apart at that time, and Smash Ultimate was a big topic. So we talked about it for a while, and then I asked her:

"So, I already told you about how I want Geno, who do you want most in Smash Ultimate?"

"Lloyd."

At first I had no idea who we were talking about, as we had another online friend in our circle by the name of Lloyd, so I had to have her clarify and even THEN I had no idea who that was because I've never played a single Tales Of game in my life, even to this day. However, we she described him, it dawned on me: that random anime-looking guy from Super Smash Flash! "Demon Fang!" "Double Demon Fang!" "Sword Rain!"

"Oh yeah, I remember him now! You got a reason for wanting him?"

This is when she proceeded to tell me that Tales of Symphonia is one of her favorite games of all time and that, in a time of true darkness, this game helped her cope and make it through. Basically, Lloyd was a shining symbol of hope for a younger Leena, and that's when I realized for the first time that there are people who want other characters just as badly as I want Geno...but for even more personal reasons. Similar to our fattest of men, Lloyd to Leena is a character that had a profound impact on her and essentially is one of the childhood factors of why I was even able to chat with her that day. She even stated that Lloyd would be the only thing she could ever ask for, but she had no faith in it happening. She thought it was impossible.

Of course, with my emotions all stirred up, I immediately went into 'Inspirational Mode' and told her that I've been fighting for Geno for years now and I've never given up on him, so she shouldn't give up on Lloyd. Hell, he's even got more going for him than Geno does (especially at that time and even now he's got more going for him to be in sooner rather than later vs Geno being later) and that she shouldn't give up! She just kind of meekly responded back and eventually she didn't want to talk about speculation anymore and just wanted to wait for true reveals. Months later, even so, I couldn't help but remind her just a week or so ago about Lloyd's chances, to which she reminded me she's not about speculation. So I told her that I'm ungodly confident in his chances and that, regardless of how she feels, I expect to be back very soon to rejoice about his inclusion with her.

So that's why I get a bit fussy when I see people call Lloyd Irving just a generic anime character or just another swordsman. To you he may be just another generic anime swordsman. Hell, up until recently, to me he was just another generic anime swordsman. But much like how Geno is just a dumb puppet from a game over 20 years ago that doesn't matter to many others but is our Absolute Star Unit Blue Puppet Boi, to Leena, Lloyd is the world...and for that reason alone, I stand with support for Lloyd Irving.

Sakurai, please, give us Lloyd Irving. Do it for Leena, and all the other Lloyd fans out there like her who love the character so genuinely. I said that I would have no other requests after Geno, and this rings true personally, but let this be another's wish through me. Let Leena's spiky-haired double-sword boy come home.

 

[Deleted member]

Rank as in positivity? Well, super condensed version: best: Lloyd. worst: can't share. Second worst is arguably Dante though.

maybe I'm dumb but this is really confusing. Since the question was about Geno's chances, is this comparitively? Like, Geno's chances compared to Lloyd are the best, but compared to Dante, Geno's chances are the worst?

What made Nintendo think that was going to go over well?

My opinion? No one should have taken the possibility of a Resident Evil fighter seriously. Assist trophy characters at best. Time to brace myself for people telling me about how they work in Marvel vs Capcom, a game in which even Mega Man punches and kicks.

Realistically? What makes Nintendo think any of their controversial decisions are going to go over well? They're not very concerned with whether we think they make sense.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

My opinion? No one should have taken the possibility of a Resident Evil fighter seriously. Assist trophy characters at best. Time to brace myself for people telling me about how they work in Marvel vs Capcom, a game in which even Mega Man punches and kicks.

Realistically? What makes Nintendo think any of their controversial decisions are going to go over well? They're not very concerned with whether we think they make sense.

You mean to tell me that you actually believe Hunk won't work in smash bros? I am agog! I am aghast!

 

[Rohanx17]

While Lloyd feels like the frontrunner I just can't shake how much better he fits as 7 so my stance for the time being is that he's going to be here in some shape or form before e3, just like geno. The problem is that I just can't decide who exactly would fit the curveball idea. Layton, Travis, and sol are all ideas I've thrown around but ultimately there is no way to know much of anything right now so I'm just going to wait and see. I was right that fatman would be cleared to tell us about Lloyd/yuri so I think we're in for plenty if interesting bits before the winter is over.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

You mean to tell me that you actually believe Hunk won't work in smash bros? I am agog! I am aghast!

"I'm going to kick your *** I'll tell you what!"

While Lloyd feels like the frontrunner I just can't shake how much better he fits as 7 so my stance for the time being is that he's going to be here in some shape or form before e3, just like geno. The problem is that I just can't decide who exactly would fit the curveball idea. Layton, Travis, and sol are all ideas I've thrown around but ultimately there is no way to know much of anything right now so I'm just going to wait and see. I was right that fatman would be cleared to tell us about Lloyd/yuri so I think we're in for plenty if interesting bits before the winter is over.

What if the curveball if any is Professer Layton? Level 5 still doesn't have a rep and they're one of the biggest developers in Japan.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

"I'm going to kick your *** I'll tell you what!"

No, not Hank, Hunk, ada wong's secret lover and co-op partner. Though it would be nice to see Hank bring the pro-pain

 

[Fatmanonice]

maybe I'm dumb but this is really confusing. Since the question was about Geno's chances, is this comparitively? Like, Geno's chances compared to Lloyd are the best, but compared to Dante, Geno's chances are the worst?

It's kind of a measure that the info we get on them is accurate and that they are either realistically being considered or even worked on. That said, the chances of characters like Lloyd and Geno being totally false and being relayed to us through unreliable or sketchy channels and info is small.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

No, not Hank, Hunk, ada wong's secret lover and co-op partner. Though it would be nice to see Hank bring the pro-pain

"Pro-pain and pro-pain accessories."

 

[Deleted member]

It's kind of a measure that the info we get on them is accurate and that they are either realistically being considered or even worked on. That said, the chances of characters like Lloyd and Geno being totally false and being relayed to us through unreliable or sketchy channels and info is small.

Ok, with this, going back and reading your post makes it a lot more clear. Lloyd at more confidence than Geno, huh.

I'm sick and tired of these anime sword fighters, I tell you.

 

[Rohanx17]

What if the curveball if any is Professer Layton? Level 5 still doesn't have a rep and they're one of the biggest developers in Japan.

He and level 5 were my first though but like the other curveball I can't think of a reason why he would be there when the other 4 all have a clear purpose. At least Travis has suda's personal relation with sakurai to work with.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Ok, with this, going back and reading your post makes it a lot more clear. Lloyd at more confidence than Geno, huh.

I'm sick and tired of these anime sword fighters, I tell you.

Well it is a Japanese game after all, not a American one.

He and level 5 were my first though but like the other curveball I can't think of a reason why he would be there when the other 4 all have a clear purpose. At least Travis has suda's personal relation with sakurai to work with.

Sakurai really doesn't have to have a personal relationship with a developer to get their character in Smash. Every character in the roster doesn't have to have a connection with Sakurai.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

Ok, with this, going back and reading your post makes it a lot more clear. Lloyd at more confidence than Geno, huh.

I'm sick and tired of these anime sword fighters, I tell you.

But this one will dual wield, it's totally different. Also we don't have a katana user yet, and we need some eastern weaponry reps

Spoiler

I actually don't mind lloyd all that much

 

[StarLight42]

I have a question...

How did you know about some sort of Smash announcement happening on Tuesday? And did you know anything about it being a Twitter Spirits reveal? Or even it being related to Resident Evil at all?

Also, why did that Discord private chat suddenly start allowing you to begin talking about Lloyd, Sol, and Nightmare after these spirits were announced?

 

[Griselda]

Shadow is probably the only one who could be Sonic's echo and not be horribly represented. Sure, he has unique abilities like his chaos powers and guns, but out of all of the Sonic characters, he's really the only one who has a base moveset that resembles Sonic's - to the extent that in his first appearance he's almost completely identical to Sonic, and doesn't even use chaos powers except in 2p mode. Blaze without a moveset based around fire attacks would be odd, Tails needs to fly or he's not really Tails, and while people often bring up Metal Sonic, the truth is that he doesn't even really move like Sonic at all, very rarely curling into a ball and certainly lacking a spindash-type move. He's all about flying and using energy attacks, rather than jumping and rolling.

 

[Deleted member]

Well it is a Japanese game after all, not a American one.

I don't mind the anime, I mind the swords. It's been done to death at this point. There are more weapons in the world than swords and there are plenty of compelling iconic characters from Japanese games that fight with something that isn't a sword.

But this one will dual wield, it's totally different. Also we don't have a katana user yet, and we need some eastern weaponry reps

Spoiler

I actually don't mind lloyd all that much

They threw Takamaru under the bus.

 

[Spatulo]

I just wanna comment on the whole “anime swordsman thing”

If a game series is based around melee weapons, the hero will have a sword. Always. It’s simple, versatile, and they can dramatically clash with the bad guy and the camera zooms in on their faces as they get real close dramatically.
Smash almost always goes for the main character in a series, so it’ll always be the sword guy. It’s like being annoyed that hand to hand focused fighting game protags punch.

And I know people always bring up axes and lances, but to be honest I don’t think these characters would end up that functionally different from sword characters.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Blaze without a moveset based around fire attacks would be odd, Tails needs to fly or he's not really Tails, and while people often bring up Metal Sonic, the truth is that he doesn't even really move like Sonic at all, very rarely curling into a ball and certainly lacking a spindash-type move. He's all about flying and using energy attacks, rather than jumping and rolling.

Dark Samus doesn't move like Samus at all either, and she become a Echo Fighter. You saw her Assist Trophy in Smash 4 right? She had more than enough potential to be her own unique character.

I don't mind the anime, I mind the swords. It's been done to death at this point. There are more weapons in the world than swords and there are plenty of compelling iconic characters from Japanese games that fight with something that isn't a sword.

One word for that... "RPG". But honestly, there is more than just sword fighters to choose from in RPGs jeez Sakurai.

 

[owjies]

Fatmanonice considering that Namco has only one character at this point, do you think it's possible that Lloyd/Nightmare could be a "both" situation rather than an either/or?

Looking at the Power of 6, Namco is the only company with an odd number of costumes remaining (Lloyd, Heihachi, Gil). All three costumes could return with the next Namco rep, or one could be held back for another fighter. That said, including Heihachi's costume with Nightmare might make a lot of sense. With both Tekken and Soul Calibur as well regarded Namco fighting game franchises, Nightmare could bring 3 SC and 3 Tekken costumes, for example: Sophitia, Siegfried, Yoshimitsu || Heihachi, King, Jin. From there, Lloyd would bring his own costume, other Tales series costumes, and Gil.