Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[EarlTamm]

Then why are you still here?

Probably just to suffer.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Weren’t there 4 characters y’all heard, all from different companies?

(This was brought up outside this thread and I know no one here really cares what others say, but I felt like people were being unfair with what they were saying and this was brought up and now I’m confused.)

Yeah this is a good point. Three of the characters you heard are from bamco?

 

[Deleted member]

Content removed by author

 

[StarLight42]

just thinking of how our final DLC lineup could be somewhat like this...so good

 

[AdamBel731]

Wynn thinks the line-up has been "corporate" picks. Like characters you don't want, but they make sense. Steve, Tracer, et cetera.
Literally the exact opposite has happened with maybe the exception of Hero (which I honestly didn't want Erdrick because he was the "btfo" bandwagon pick) but even then you still have Eight and an actually interesting moveset that isn't "swing swing block block".

I used to think the exact same. I thought we were getting Steve and Katalina, and I didn't want those characters at all. I really hated Plant.
Then Plant Gang came around and it's sole purpose was a bandwagon meant to laugh at other characters that didn't get in.

Nowadays I'm happy with anyone getting into Smash because Sakurai's at the helm, and he'll be able to deliver.

I think you should take a step back, Wynn. Sakurai is NOT your enemy. Most of my picks I wanted aren't in for who knows what reason, but I'm not complaining. I don't mind if Sceptile or Neku get in. I don't mind if Dixie or Shadow aren't in, but they were obvious opportunities for echoes at least. IIf Doomguy doesn't get in, I'd be a bit upset but I'd get over it.
Even if you don't get the characters you want, you should be happy for other characters who got in. Lloyd's fan-base has been around since Brawl, and I think it's time they deserve their character.

Plant was definitely a weird pick because he's meant to be. He's the WTF character of the game.
Whining about it a year later and bringing it up for no reason won't help anything at all. He didn't steal Geno's slot or Isaac's slot or anything like that.

It's like complaining about how Sakurai added Dark Pit in Smash 4. Give it a rest, please.

Your efforts are in vain. Take it from me. I've tried to reason with him, but he just won't quit.

 

[Zinith]

Oh. My. GOOOOOOOOD I was just in the Super Mario Boards and they have a hate boner against Yoshi for some reason. You're obviously free to like and dislike anyone but some of the things they said was "[...]the fart noises that come out of his vocal cavity" and "he's basically the Jar Jar Binks of the series".

Zinith please say something Yoshi related so I can have faith in humanity again. I'm not sure how much longer I can last like this.

Here's something Yoshi-related:

Spoiler

"What you know is dangerous to your enemy; what you think you know is dangerous to you."

 

[ColtonS25]

Hot SmashBoards tip: the ignore button can be useful in a variety of situations.

On FP5, I have a feeling it’s gonna be a one and done at TGA. No bonus character whatsoever. Do I have any evidence? Nah, just a gut feeling. If it’s Lloyd, then good for his fans. No personal attachment to the character but I know that he has his fans. That’s honestly why I don’t play the “I hope this character never gets in” game. It’s very gatekeep-y and just kinda divides people.

Basically every character has fans, and who is to say that we know better than them and that our character is somehow more worthy? You can support characters without rooting against others. It’s not difficult. Mini rant over, but it’s something about the Smash community that I find to be one of the ugliest aspects and I felt inclined to talk about it.

 

[Deleted member]

quick question for Nazyrus or Fatmanonice since there are some.... interesting rumors going on in the newcomer speculation thread I'd like to ask a real quick question: If Sora were to get in what do you think are the chances of Geno's Mii costume returning with him are (if you're allowed to say)?

Would it be like Hero where he wouldn't get any of the returning Square costume? would he get both Chocobo and Geno? Or even possibly just Chocobo (since KH is a FF/Disney crossover) and no Geno?

 

[Nicnac]

I went to bed, woke up and the dynamic has changed so much in just a few hours, lmao. Dante for FP5 to "Maybe Dante but not for FP5" to the brutal disconfirmation of Resident Evil, and FP5 is currently looking like Lloyd. Also, 7/10 of the Sabi Circle's list are publicly revealed- Geno, Ryu Hayabusa, Crash, Lloyd, Sol, Nightmare and Dante, which is such a good lineup no matter which way you cut it (plus Doom Slayer is lurking despite not being on the list- CacoMallow leak isn't definitely dead, right?).

This next bit of speculation leading up to and after FP5 should be very interesting.

 

[Axelocke]

plot twist: the list of deconfirmed characters for fighter 5 are secretly the dlc characters of fighters pass 2.

 

[3DSNinja]

so Gordon, Geno, Ryu, Crash, Dante, and Doomguy? That... Sounds amazing. Honestly, it confers everything, from PC/Western gaming with Gordon and Doomguy, to modern Hack and Slashes, to the NES platformeds, to the SNES RPG. Truly perfect in every way.

 

[alemerltoucanet]

Imo the strongest DLC fighter 5 candidate is Lloyd or Phoenix Wright. Crazy too considering I've been predicting they'd be coming for awhile now. :0

 

[Fatmanonice]

More answers to more questions. In this exciting episode, Fatmanonice will explain how this thought process works and what happens when he speculates but can't share all his notes with the class:

Fatmanonice I'm a bit forgetful, but didn't you imply we will get lloyd plus another bamco rep? And is that still on the table?

This was my attempt at a red herring. I still stand by Nightmare and Lloyd being the most likely Namco characters by a wide margin but I threw Heihachi in the mix too in an attempt to relieve myself (gross) of people hardcore pressuring me about Lloyd. I wanted to make it seem like there were more Namco options because I hadn't been cleared to talk about Lloyd like I can now. Lloyd's been the elephant in the room for a Namco rep for over a year, even outside of private circles. For awhile I was trying to nudge more people into researching Sabi's past posts because they used to talk about Lloyd... A lot. Seriously... Go back to his posts from last December/January and it's the "secret" character he talks about the most. It's funny but people just kind of "forgot" about how brazen Sabi used to be about characters talked about in private. Lloyd was always part of the conversation but ironically enough, most people just flat out forgot.

Weren’t there 4 characters y’all heard, all from different companies?

(This was brought up outside this thread and I know no one here really cares what others say, but I felt like people were being unfair with what they were saying and this was brought up and now I’m confused.)

Another example of when I could show my work but now I can explain now that the chains are off.

-Terry is revealed. As a group, we kind of reach the conclusion that a "good" #5/VGA will probably come down to Lloyd, Dante, Sol, or some rando based on what we've heard. We nod in agreement and just move ahead.

-About a month passes. "Yeah... I think that (like Sora), Sol is based more on wishful thinking than solid evidence from people." Okay. Again, nothing new so no big deal. We all agreed that, despite the lack of evidence for Sora, there was a pretty good chance that he would happen before DLC completely ends. Why not give Sol this same benefit of the doubt? Lloyd, Dante, or some rando. Okay then. Pressing on...

-Another month passes, and timestamps for when this happened can be found in my posts about three weeks ago. "Yeah... I get this sinking feeling that Dante's leakbait/fake... People just seem to have this hunch about him and how he's been heared. Not sure if I trust that it's real anymore based on this..." Oh! This conclusion was kind of stunning for the group because two of the members of the group (and arguably the closest to Sabi) are HUGE Dante fans. It's a hard pill to swallow because a lot of people agreed that Dante probably would have been a "perfect" character for the VGAs. So... Lloyd or some rando? Serendipitously, a whole bunch of evidence for Lloyd or at least a Tales rep emerges almost the same day. I note it on here and even Sabi acknowledges it on Twitter but, obviously, we can't out right talk about the implications. Things are looking pretty good for Lloyd.

-More time passes and, I think last week, we collect our thoughts. The NoA summarizes everyone that they've heard since roughly E3. Sol, Lloyd, and Dante are there and... Nightmare? "What, really?!" They point out how they had first casually mentioned Nightmare in the late summer but it didn't stick with any of us. Of course, several people thumb through months of messages and, sure enough, they did, plain as day.

-We look over their list and... "Wait... Sephiroth... Sephiroth?! You're still hearing Sephiroth?!" Yup. Huh... Sephiroth has an interesting history. Of course, everyone is familiar with the how he was on the Seven Squares but, in another case of public amnesia, people forgot that Sabi had publicly talked about how rumors for Sephiroth were pretty common before the VGAs last year. Once "Brave" was learned about in December, most people dropped Sephiroth like a dead weight and the name wasn't brought up seriously again.

-Now we get to the part where people couldn't see my notes. Hearing that Sephiroth was still being heard, my initial conclusion was "boy howdy, this HAS to mean something " so I drew up my original four swordsmen, four companies idea: Sol (Arc Systems), Lloyd (Namco), Dante (Capcom), and Sephiroth (Square). The Power of Six Theory I kept pushing did heavily imply that more Namco, Capcom, and Square characters were coming later so it seemed like a logical conclusion... Until I realized it totally wasn't.

-After my initially theory I looked over the four again and came to realize that Sephiroth was the most different by a longshot and in hindsight I'm embarrassed. Sephiroth had arguably been used as leak bait in the past, was part of a company already in the Fighter's Pass, was part of a franchise that even SMRPG had better representation of, was double dipping for a new original character which hadn't been done yet for anything third party franchise, etc. Yeah, Sephiroth was a bad, bad pick but, again, I couldn't publicly show my notes so I simply swapped them out for Nightmare because, logically, it was a much more reasonable name to consider overall and for other evidence I still can't disclose.

So, in the end, my conclusion last week was that #5 would be Lloyd, Dante, Nightmare, Sol, or somebody nobody had heard like Terry or Joker.

quick question for Nazyrus or Fatmanonice since there are some.... interesting rumors going on in the newcomer speculation thread I'd like to ask a real quick question: If Sora were to get in what do you think are the chances of Geno's Mii costume returning with him are (if you're allowed to say)?

Would it be like Hero where he wouldn't get any of the returning Square costume? would he get both Chocobo and Geno? Or even possibly just Chocobo (since KH is a FF/Disney crossover) and no Geno?

Sora. This is a hard topic. It's been agreed that there isn't hard evidence for him right now but It's probably a character that Nintendo will fight tooth and nail to get due to his popularity. That said, Sora is not expected for a long, long time. My current estimate is next fall/VGAs at the earliest. That said, I haven't really dissected the finer details of Sora's inclusion because why bother if he probably won't realistically materialize for another year or more?

 

[UberMadman]

plot twist: the list of deconfirmed characters for fighter 5 are secretly the dlc characters of fighters pass 2.

I would actually be shocked if none of the names floating around aren’t either Figter Pass 2 characters or due to Fighter Pass 2 in some way, (i.e. leakbait).

 

[Datboigeno]

More answers to more questions. In this exciting episode, Fatmanonice will explain how this thought process works and what happens when he speculates but can't share all his notes with the class:



This was my attempt at a red herring. I still stand by Nightmare and Lloyd being the most likely Namco characters by a wide margin but I threw Heihachi in the mix too in an attempt to relieve myself (gross) of people hardcore pressuring me about Lloyd. I wanted to make it seem like there were more Namco options because I hadn't been cleared to talk about Lloyd like I can now. Lloyd's been the elephant in the room for a Namco rep for over a year, even outside of private circles. For awhile I was trying to nudge more people into researching Sabi's past posts because they used to talk about Lloyd... A lot. Seriously... Go back to his posts from last December/January and it's the "secret" character he talks about the most. It's funny but people just kind of "forgot" about how brazen Sabi used to be about characters talked about in private. Lloyd was always part of the conversation but ironically enough, most people just flat out forgot.




Another example of when I could show my work but now I can explain now that the chains are off.

-Terry is revealed. As a group, we kind of reach the conclusion that a "good" #5/VGA will probably come down to Lloyd, Dante, Sol, or some rando based on what we've heard. We nod in agreement and just move ahead.

-About a month passes. "Yeah... I think that (like Sora), Sol is based more on wishful thinking than solid evidence from people." Okay. Again, nothing new so no big deal. We all agreed that, despite the lack of evidence for Sora, there was a pretty good chance that he would happen before DLC completely ends. Why not give Sol this same benefit of the doubt? Lloyd, Dante, or some rando. Okay then. Pressing on...

-Another month passes, and timestamps for when this happened can be found in my posts about three weeks ago. "Yeah... I get this sinking feeling that Dante's leakbait/fake... People just seem to have this hunch about him and how he's been heared. Not sure if I trust that it's real anymore based on this..." Oh! This conclusion was kind of stunning for the group because two of the members of the group (and arguably the closest to Sabi) are HUGE Dante fans. It's a hard pill to swallow because a lot of people agreed that Dante probably would have been a "perfect" character for the VGAs. So... Lloyd or some rando? Serendipitously, a whole bunch of evidence for Lloyd or at least a Tales rep emerges almost the same day. I note it on here and even Sabi acknowledges it on Twitter but, obviously, we can't out right talk about the implications. Things are looking pretty good for Lloyd.

-More time passes and, I think last week, we collect our thoughts. The NoA summarizes everyone that they've heard since roughly E3. Sol, Lloyd, and Dante are there and... Nightmare? "What, really?!" They point out how they had first casually mentioned Nightmare in the late summer but it didn't stick with any of us. Of course, several people thumb through months of messages and, sure enough, they did, plain as day.

-We look over their list and... "Wait... Sephiroth... Sephiroth?! You're still hearing Sephiroth?!" Yup. Huh... Sephiroth has an interesting history. Of course, everyone is familiar with the how he was on the Seven Squares but, in another case of public amnesia, people forgot that Sabi had publicly talked about how rumors for Sephiroth were pretty common before the VGAs last year. Once "Brave" was learned about in December, most people dropped Sephiroth like a dead weight and the name wasn't brought up seriously again.

-Now we get to the part where people couldn't see my notes. Hearing that Sephiroth was still being heard, my initial conclusion was "boy howdy, this HAS to mean something " so I drew up my original four swordsmen, four companies idea: Sol (Arc Systems), Lloyd (Namco), Dante (Capcom), and Sephiroth (Square). The Power of Six Theory I kept pushing did heavily imply that more Namco, Capcom, and Square characters were coming later so it seemed like a logical conclusion... Until I realized it totally wasn't.

-After my initially theory I looked over the four again and came to realize that Sephiroth was the most different by a longshot and in hindsight I'm embarrassed. Sephiroth had arguably been used as leak bait in the past, was part of a company already in the Fighter's Pass, was part of a franchise that even SMRPG had better representation of, was double dipping for a new original character which hadn't been done yet for anything third party franchise, etc. Yeah, Sephiroth was a bad, bad pick but, again, I couldn't publicly show my notes so I simply swapped them out for Nightmare because, logically, it was a much more reasonable name to consider overall and for other evidence I still can't disclose.

So, in the end, my conclusion last week was that #5 would be Lloyd, Dante, Nightmare, Sol, or somebody nobody had heard like Terry or Joker.



Sora. This is a hard topic. It's been agreed that there isn't hard evidence for him right now but It's probably a character that Nintendo will fight tooth and nail to get due to his popularity. That said, Sora is not expected for a long, long time. My current estimate is next fall/VGAs at the earliest. That said, I haven't really dissected the finer details of Sora's inclusion because why bother if he probably won't realistically materialize for another year or more?

So is Heihachi not seen as a likely/possible inclusion in the future anymore? Is there thinking that his mii costume could come back?

 

[Spatulo]

More answers to more questions. In this exciting episode, Fatmanonice will explain how this thought process works and what happens when he speculates but can't share all his notes with the class:



This was my attempt at a red herring. I still stand by Nightmare and Lloyd being the most likely Namco characters by a wide margin but I threw Heihachi in the mix too in an attempt to relieve myself (gross) of people hardcore pressuring me about Lloyd. I wanted to make it seem like there were more Namco options because I hadn't been cleared to talk about Lloyd like I can now. Lloyd's been the elephant in the room for a Namco rep for over a year, even outside of private circles. For awhile I was trying to nudge more people into researching Sabi's past posts because they used to talk about Lloyd... A lot. Seriously... Go back to his posts from last December/January and it's the "secret" character he talks about the most. It's funny but people just kind of "forgot" about how brazen Sabi used to be about characters talked about in private. Lloyd was always part of the conversation but ironically enough, most people just flat out forgot.




Another example of when I could show my work but now I can explain now that the chains are off.

-Terry is revealed. As a group, we kind of reach the conclusion that a "good" #5/VGA will probably come down to Lloyd, Dante, Sol, or some rando based on what we've heard. We nod in agreement and just move ahead.

-About a month passes. "Yeah... I think that (like Sora), Sol is based more on wishful thinking than solid evidence from people." Okay. Again, nothing new so no big deal. We all agreed that, despite the lack of evidence for Sora, there was a pretty good chance that he would happen before DLC completely ends. Why not give Sol this same benefit of the doubt? Lloyd, Dante, or some rando. Okay then. Pressing on...

-Another month passes, and timestamps for when this happened can be found in my posts about three weeks ago. "Yeah... I get this sinking feeling that Dante's leakbait/fake... People just seem to have this hunch about him and how he's been heared. Not sure if I trust that it's real anymore based on this..." Oh! This conclusion was kind of stunning for the group because two of the members of the group (and arguably the closest to Sabi) are HUGE Dante fans. It's a hard pill to swallow because a lot of people agreed that Dante probably would have been a "perfect" character for the VGAs. So... Lloyd or some rando? Serendipitously, a whole bunch of evidence for Lloyd or at least a Tales rep emerges almost the same day. I note it on here and even Sabi acknowledges it on Twitter but, obviously, we can't out right talk about the implications. Things are looking pretty good for Lloyd.

-More time passes and, I think last week, we collect our thoughts. The NoA summarizes everyone that they've heard since roughly E3. Sol, Lloyd, and Dante are there and... Nightmare? "What, really?!" They point out how they had first casually mentioned Nightmare in the late summer but it didn't stick with any of us. Of course, several people thumb through months of messages and, sure enough, they did, plain as day.

-We look over their list and... "Wait... Sephiroth... Sephiroth?! You're still hearing Sephiroth?!" Yup. Huh... Sephiroth has an interesting history. Of course, everyone is familiar with the how he was on the Seven Squares but, in another case of public amnesia, people forgot that Sabi had publicly talked about how rumors for Sephiroth were pretty common before the VGAs last year. Once "Brave" was learned about in December, most people dropped Sephiroth like a dead weight and the name wasn't brought up seriously again.

-Now we get to the part where people couldn't see my notes. Hearing that Sephiroth was still being heard, my initial conclusion was "boy howdy, this HAS to mean something " so I drew up my original four swordsmen, four companies idea: Sol (Arc Systems), Lloyd (Namco), Dante (Capcom), and Sephiroth (Square). The Power of Six Theory I kept pushing did heavily imply that more Namco, Capcom, and Square characters were coming later so it seemed like a logical conclusion... Until I realized it totally wasn't.

-After my initially theory I looked over the four again and came to realize that Sephiroth was the most different by a longshot and in hindsight I'm embarrassed. Sephiroth had arguably been used as leak bait in the past, was part of a company already in the Fighter's Pass, was part of a franchise that even SMRPG had better representation of, was double dipping for a new original character which hadn't been done yet for anything third party franchise, etc. Yeah, Sephiroth was a bad, bad pick but, again, I couldn't publicly show my notes so I simply swapped them out for Nightmare because, logically, it was a much more reasonable name to consider overall and for other evidence I still can't disclose.

So, in the end, my conclusion last week was that #5 would be Lloyd, Dante, Nightmare, Sol, or somebody nobody had heard like Terry or Joker.



Sora. This is a hard topic. It's been agreed that there isn't hard evidence for him right now but It's probably a character that Nintendo will fight tooth and nail to get due to his popularity. That said, Sora is not expected for a long, long time. My current estimate is next fall/VGAs at the earliest. That said, I haven't really dissected the finer details of Sora's inclusion because why bother if he probably won't realistically materialize for another year or more?

The crazy thing is, I can definitely see either Lloyd or Nightmare as character 5 and then the other one coming in Season 2. Heck, Lloyd could be 6 or 7 based on the theory of those two reusing resources from 4. Sol seems like a semilogical Season 2 character to me, the pass ending on a Namco rep makes too much sense.

And man, if you guys are sick if Ganondorf’s smash attacks just try to imagine Nightmare’s

 

[Deleted member]

More answers to more questions. In this exciting episode, Fatmanonice will explain how this thought process works and what happens when he speculates but can't share all his notes with the class:



This was my attempt at a red herring. I still stand by Nightmare and Lloyd being the most likely Namco characters by a wide margin but I threw Heihachi in the mix too in an attempt to relieve myself (gross) of people hardcore pressuring me about Lloyd. I wanted to make it seem like there were more Namco options because I hadn't been cleared to talk about Lloyd like I can now. Lloyd's been the elephant in the room for a Namco rep for over a year, even outside of private circles. For awhile I was trying to nudge more people into researching Sabi's past posts because they used to talk about Lloyd... A lot. Seriously... Go back to his posts from last December/January and it's the "secret" character he talks about the most. It's funny but people just kind of "forgot" about how brazen Sabi used to be about characters talked about in private. Lloyd was always part of the conversation but ironically enough, most people just flat out forgot.




Another example of when I could show my work but now I can explain now that the chains are off.

-Terry is revealed. As a group, we kind of reach the conclusion that a "good" #5/VGA will probably come down to Lloyd, Dante, Sol, or some rando based on what we've heard. We nod in agreement and just move ahead.

-About a month passes. "Yeah... I think that (like Sora), Sol is based more on wishful thinking than solid evidence from people." Okay. Again, nothing new so no big deal. We all agreed that, despite the lack of evidence for Sora, there was a pretty good chance that he would happen before DLC completely ends. Why not give Sol this same benefit of the doubt? Lloyd, Dante, or some rando. Okay then. Pressing on...

-Another month passes, and timestamps for when this happened can be found in my posts about three weeks ago. "Yeah... I get this sinking feeling that Dante's leakbait/fake... People just seem to have this hunch about him and how he's been heared. Not sure if I trust that it's real anymore based on this..." Oh! This conclusion was kind of stunning for the group because two of the members of the group (and arguably the closest to Sabi) are HUGE Dante fans. It's a hard pill to swallow because a lot of people agreed that Dante probably would have been a "perfect" character for the VGAs. So... Lloyd or some rando? Serendipitously, a whole bunch of evidence for Lloyd or at least a Tales rep emerges almost the same day. I note it on here and even Sabi acknowledges it on Twitter but, obviously, we can't out right talk about the implications. Things are looking pretty good for Lloyd.

-More time passes and, I think last week, we collect our thoughts. The NoA summarizes everyone that they've heard since roughly E3. Sol, Lloyd, and Dante are there and... Nightmare? "What, really?!" They point out how they had first casually mentioned Nightmare in the late summer but it didn't stick with any of us. Of course, several people thumb through months of messages and, sure enough, they did, plain as day.

-We look over their list and... "Wait... Sephiroth... Sephiroth?! You're still hearing Sephiroth?!" Yup. Huh... Sephiroth has an interesting history. Of course, everyone is familiar with the how he was on the Seven Squares but, in another case of public amnesia, people forgot that Sabi had publicly talked about how rumors for Sephiroth were pretty common before the VGAs last year. Once "Brave" was learned about in December, most people dropped Sephiroth like a dead weight and the name wasn't brought up seriously again.

-Now we get to the part where people couldn't see my notes. Hearing that Sephiroth was still being heard, my initial conclusion was "boy howdy, this HAS to mean something " so I drew up my original four swordsmen, four companies idea: Sol (Arc Systems), Lloyd (Namco), Dante (Capcom), and Sephiroth (Square). The Power of Six Theory I kept pushing did heavily imply that more Namco, Capcom, and Square characters were coming later so it seemed like a logical conclusion... Until I realized it totally wasn't.

-After my initially theory I looked over the four again and came to realize that Sephiroth was the most different by a longshot and in hindsight I'm embarrassed. Sephiroth had arguably been used as leak bait in the past, was part of a company already in the Fighter's Pass, was part of a franchise that even SMRPG had better representation of, was double dipping for a new original character which hadn't been done yet for anything third party franchise, etc. Yeah, Sephiroth was a bad, bad pick but, again, I couldn't publicly show my notes so I simply swapped them out for Nightmare because, logically, it was a much more reasonable name to consider overall and for other evidence I still can't disclose.

So, in the end, my conclusion last week was that #5 would be Lloyd, Dante, Nightmare, Sol, or somebody nobody had heard like Terry or Joker.



Sora. This is a hard topic. It's been agreed that there isn't hard evidence for him right now but It's probably a character that Nintendo will fight tooth and nail to get due to his popularity. That said, Sora is not expected for a long, long time. My current estimate is next fall/VGAs at the earliest. That said, I haven't really dissected the finer details of Sora's inclusion because why bother if he probably won't realistically materialize for another year or more?

So despite Sephiroth continuing to be heard, it’s 100% safe to say that there is no evidence of any sort of developments?

 

[Fatmanonice]

So despite Sephiroth continuing to be heard, it’s 100% safe to say that there is no evidence of any sort of developments compared to Geno?

Correct. Sephiroth is kind of a trainwreck logically based on the points I went over. As far as I'm concerned, he "died" after the VGAs in 2018 so it's a big shock that the name is still floating in the void for whatever reason.

So is Heihachi not seen as a likely/possible inclusion in the future anymore? Is there thinking that his mii costume could come back?

Ironically, Heihachi has not been heard.. ever (as far as I know). At the very least, the Mii costume is practically guaranteed to come back because there's decent evidence that Nintendo wants to bring back all the Smash 4 costumes or promote them to playable, with Geno and Lloyd being so ridiculously far ahead that the other six aren't even worth discussing.

 

[StarLight42]

Correct. Sephiroth is kind of a trainwreck logically based on the points I went over. As far as I'm concerned, he "died" after the VGAs in 2018 so it's a big shock that the name is still floating in the void for whatever reason.



Ironically, Heihachi has not been heard.. ever (as far as I know). At the very least, the Mii costume is practically guaranteed to come back because there's decent evidence that Nintendo wants to bring back all the Smash 4 costumes or promote them to playable, with Geno and Lloyd being so ridiculously far ahead that the other six aren't even worth discussing.

In your opinion, does the re-emergance of Sephiroth mean anything bad for Geno?

 

[Fatmanonice]

In your opinion, does the re-emergance of Sephiroth mean anything bad for Geno?

Actually the opposite. Sephiroth was the only one of the Seven Squares that seemed to ever be pushed to be used as misinformation. If Sephiroth is "back", I'd argue that it stands to reason that he's trying to cover someone else but, like I said, Sephiroth isn't being pushed hard like be was for the 2018 VGAs. It's a whisper in the wind and, without context, possibly just a remnant of last year. You know when you share a "new" meme with a someone and they deadpan tell you they've already seen it? Same premise but with a guy with hair down to his ass and who could goose the bus driver from the back seat of the bus with his sword.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

just thinking of how our final DLC lineup could be somewhat like this...so good

Even if we just get half of those characters it would be a win/win.

More answers to more questions. In this exciting episode, Fatmanonice will explain how this thought process works and what happens when he speculates but can't share all his notes with the class:



This was my attempt at a red herring. I still stand by Nightmare and Lloyd being the most likely Namco characters by a wide margin but I threw Heihachi in the mix too in an attempt to relieve myself (gross) of people hardcore pressuring me about Lloyd. I wanted to make it seem like there were more Namco options because I hadn't been cleared to talk about Lloyd like I can now. Lloyd's been the elephant in the room for a Namco rep for over a year, even outside of private circles. For awhile I was trying to nudge more people into researching Sabi's past posts because they used to talk about Lloyd... A lot. Seriously... Go back to his posts from last December/January and it's the "secret" character he talks about the most. It's funny but people just kind of "forgot" about how brazen Sabi used to be about characters talked about in private. Lloyd was always part of the conversation but ironically enough, most people just flat out forgot.




Another example of when I could show my work but now I can explain now that the chains are off.

-Terry is revealed. As a group, we kind of reach the conclusion that a "good" #5/VGA will probably come down to Lloyd, Dante, Sol, or some rando based on what we've heard. We nod in agreement and just move ahead.

-About a month passes. "Yeah... I think that (like Sora), Sol is based more on wishful thinking than solid evidence from people." Okay. Again, nothing new so no big deal. We all agreed that, despite the lack of evidence for Sora, there was a pretty good chance that he would happen before DLC completely ends. Why not give Sol this same benefit of the doubt? Lloyd, Dante, or some rando. Okay then. Pressing on...

-Another month passes, and timestamps for when this happened can be found in my posts about three weeks ago. "Yeah... I get this sinking feeling that Dante's leakbait/fake... People just seem to have this hunch about him and how he's been heared. Not sure if I trust that it's real anymore based on this..." Oh! This conclusion was kind of stunning for the group because two of the members of the group (and arguably the closest to Sabi) are HUGE Dante fans. It's a hard pill to swallow because a lot of people agreed that Dante probably would have been a "perfect" character for the VGAs. So... Lloyd or some rando? Serendipitously, a whole bunch of evidence for Lloyd or at least a Tales rep emerges almost the same day. I note it on here and even Sabi acknowledges it on Twitter but, obviously, we can't out right talk about the implications. Things are looking pretty good for Lloyd.

-More time passes and, I think last week, we collect our thoughts. The NoA summarizes everyone that they've heard since roughly E3. Sol, Lloyd, and Dante are there and... Nightmare? "What, really?!" They point out how they had first casually mentioned Nightmare in the late summer but it didn't stick with any of us. Of course, several people thumb through months of messages and, sure enough, they did, plain as day.

-We look over their list and... "Wait... Sephiroth... Sephiroth?! You're still hearing Sephiroth?!" Yup. Huh... Sephiroth has an interesting history. Of course, everyone is familiar with the how he was on the Seven Squares but, in another case of public amnesia, people forgot that Sabi had publicly talked about how rumors for Sephiroth were pretty common before the VGAs last year. Once "Brave" was learned about in December, most people dropped Sephiroth like a dead weight and the name wasn't brought up seriously again.

-Now we get to the part where people couldn't see my notes. Hearing that Sephiroth was still being heard, my initial conclusion was "boy howdy, this HAS to mean something " so I drew up my original four swordsmen, four companies idea: Sol (Arc Systems), Lloyd (Namco), Dante (Capcom), and Sephiroth (Square). The Power of Six Theory I kept pushing did heavily imply that more Namco, Capcom, and Square characters were coming later so it seemed like a logical conclusion... Until I realized it totally wasn't.

-After my initially theory I looked over the four again and came to realize that Sephiroth was the most different by a longshot and in hindsight I'm embarrassed. Sephiroth had arguably been used as leak bait in the past, was part of a company already in the Fighter's Pass, was part of a franchise that even SMRPG had better representation of, was double dipping for a new original character which hadn't been done yet for anything third party franchise, etc. Yeah, Sephiroth was a bad, bad pick but, again, I couldn't publicly show my notes so I simply swapped them out for Nightmare because, logically, it was a much more reasonable name to consider overall and for other evidence I still can't disclose.

So, in the end, my conclusion last week was that #5 would be Lloyd, Dante, Nightmare, Sol, or somebody nobody had heard like Terry or Joker.



Sora. This is a hard topic. It's been agreed that there isn't hard evidence for him right now but It's probably a character that Nintendo will fight tooth and nail to get due to his popularity. That said, Sora is not expected for a long, long time. My current estimate is next fall/VGAs at the earliest. That said, I haven't really dissected the finer details of Sora's inclusion because why bother if he probably won't realistically materialize for another year or more?

My God. I hope it's Nightmare, but dear lord I would jump out of my seat, die, and gone to heaven if it's Yoshimitsu.

 

[DanganZilla5]

It just seems suspicious that Heihachi did not come with all those fighting game Mii costumes. Unless if they are holding out on him until the Bamco character.

 

[Ura]

Correct. Sephiroth is kind of a trainwreck logically based on the points I went over. As far as I'm concerned, he "died" after the VGAs in 2018 so it's a big shock that the name is still floating in the void for whatever reason.

Much like FF7's lore, Sephiroth is still floating in the Lifestream waiting to return.

 

[Spatulo]

It just seems suspicious that Heihachi did not come with all those fighting game Mii costumes. Unless if they are holding out on him until the Bamco character.

Heihachi was in the PS2 version of Soul Calibur 2 so there’s some precedent, but whoever the bamco rep is he’s probably coming with them

 

[Vector Victor]

Uh, wow, things might have taken a confusing turn here. There's so much information going around.

I'm just hoping for Geno's chances. Majority of the names floating around are neutral to me. And, I'm sorry to say, but it's a bit disappointing that first party looks to be done.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

I'm kinda hoping it's Nightmare too. He'd be much more unique among the current fighter pass characters as a big heavy, not like a lightweight/medium character. Especially if he's Gamecube Soulcalibur II Nightmare instead of unstable Inferno Nightmare. Especially if we get a Switch version of Soulcalibur II HD afterwards.

Joker has his lightfootedness and gun/knife combo, Hero has his standard sword/shield combo and lotsa magic, Banjo's a pretty traditional platform character, Terry's the fighting game character with inputs and whatnot, then NIGHTMARE is the big heavy dude with the GIANT eyeball sword and an aggressive fighting style to match. I MYSELF would certainly love it.

That said... here's a thought that's probably better left unsaid... we really sure we're not actually hearing the first details of Fighter Pass 2?

Geno, Lloyd Irving the Lloyd himself (Referencing The Stupids), Crash Bandicoot, Doomguy and Dante? That seems like a pretty crowdpleasing Fighter Pass 2 if you ask me. We... super sure that isn't what it actually is?

Geno being the RPG magic character who's very projectile oriented, The Lloyd being the dual wielding RPG sword hero, Crash being the traditional platform character, Doomguy being the big heavy with an aggressive fighting style that, UNLIKE Nightmare is more projectile oriented, and then Dante is the big crazy mix of bam bam slice slice energeticness, especially if he actually comes with Devil Trigger.


My house is gonna be egged for saying this, isn't it?

 

[Fatmanonice]

It just seems suspicious that Heihachi did not come with all those fighting game Mii costumes. Unless if they are holding out on him until the Bamco character.

That's what I think. My theory is that Heihachi was removed from Terry for Lloyd or Nightmare, probably because if Heihachi was seen back, Lloyd fans would freak out even more and arguably "ruin the surprise."

 

[Vector Victor]

I find it amusing (and a bit frustrating) concerning Reggie's words. He implied the Fighters Pass was all new series. People didn't want to believe and were hoping that previous characters could be promoted or established series could be added on. But it was still strongly implied that the characters/series would be those never seen before in Smash. Then Hero, Banjo and Terry proved that. After this, people were starting to believing Reggie's words. People were against it for months but finally turned to begrudgingly admit Reggie was right.

And just as fans switched positions, (it is implied) Nintendo then turns around and promotes a costume to character 5, meaning people WERE right to question if Reggie meant it would be completely new characters, except now people are on the 'new character train,' a 180 from last year.

Seems like the fans can never be allowed to be right.

 

[wynn728]

just thinking of how our final DLC lineup could be somewhat like this...so good

Well that ain't going to happen.

 

[PatPrime]

If the fifth character really is either Lloyd, Nightmare, or Sol then man, the variety in the genre department isn't very good. Doesnt help that Sol and Lloyd mean nothing to me personally. That being said, Nightmare would actually be cool since Soul Caliber is one of the few "traditional" fighting games I actually like and as stated before, he would be a sword wielder that is HEAVY.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm racking my brain trying to think what changed over the course of seemingly half a day that has given us Fatman (mostly) Unchained. Something pretty substantial must've happened behind the scenes.

Anyway, I really don't feel like Lloyd is #5. I'm recently really latched to the theory that Reggie was not fronting or advertising - the trend thus far has been characters/franchises not just not represented in this iteration of Smash, but characters/franchises not represented in any Smash game ever, and only one of them was even close to being represented, as a trophy, according to Sakurai supposedly - unless you want to reach like Mr. Fantastic and say that King of Fighters has been repped since Smash 4 thanks to the invitations. I think Fighter 5 could be revealed tomorrow and turn out to be a first party Nintendo character, but even in that situation, they'd have to have never been in Smash in any form whatsoever, not trophy, sticker, costume, not even a music track.

I went off about it not long ago, but to once more be the biggest debbie downer possible, seriously think about the implications of Lloyd being #5. In a DLC season of characters no one asked for (Banjo excluded), they decide to upgrade one final costume from 4... and it's generic anime protagonist Lloyd Irving. In the baleful universe where these 5 characters are all we got, I think it would be safe to say at that point that everyone who ever wanted Geno is a ****ing joke to Sakurai and Nintendo. Not even Nintendo is that dumb.

Honestly, I kind of have my doubts that #5 is even a Namco character. A lot of their front runners, by the above mentioned trend, are dead in the water thanks to Pac Man's taunt, of all things - Soul Calibur being one of the few franchises not represented by it.

 

[Deleted member]

So who's the remaining Mii costumes?
Geno, Chocobo, Lloyd, Heihachi, Gil, and Rathalos? I think I got them all.

Well that ain't going to happen.

Who is going to happen then? Because you're just saying this just to spite optimism at this point.

 

[Spatulo]

I'm kinda hoping it's Nightmare too. He'd be much more unique among the current fighter pass characters as a big heavy, not like a lightweight/medium character. Especially if he's Gamecube Soulcalibur II Nightmare instead of unstable Inferno Nightmare. Especially if we get a Switch version of Soulcalibur II HD afterwards.

Joker has his lightfootedness and gun/knife combo, Hero has his standard sword/shield combo and lotsa magic, Banjo's a pretty traditional platform character, Terry's the fighting game character with inputs and whatnot, then NIGHTMARE is the big heavy dude with the GIANT eyeball sword and an aggressive fighting style to match. I MYSELF would certainly love it.

That said... here's a thought that's probably better left unsaid... we really sure we're not actually hearing the first details of Fighter Pass 2?

Geno, Lloyd Irving the Lloyd himself (Referencing The Stupids), Crash Bandicoot, Doomguy and Dante? That seems like a pretty crowdpleasing Fighter Pass 2 if you ask me. We... super sure that isn't what it actually is?

Geno being the RPG magic character who's very projectile oriented, The Lloyd being the dual wielding RPG sword hero, Crash being the traditional platform character, Doomguy being the big heavy with an aggressive fighting style that, UNLIKE Nightmare is more projectile oriented, and then Dante is the big crazy mix of bam bam slice slice energeticness, especially if he actually comes with Devil Trigger.


My house is gonna be egged for saying this, isn't it?

I’m pretty happy with the timeline where you’re right.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

If the fifth character really is either Lloyd, Nightmare, or Sol then man, the variety in the genre department isn't very good. Doesnt help that Sol and Lloyd mean nothing to me personally. That being said, Nightmare would actually be cool since Soul Caliber is one of the few "traditional" fighting games I actually like and as stated before, he would be a sword wielder that is HEAVY.

Soul Calibur or Tales of Symphony might not mean nothing to you, but it does to a lot of other people like myself. I grew up with the Soul Calibur games, so the franchise is a critical part and memory of my gaming childhood. Nightmare or Yoshimitsu getting in the game would almost make me as happy as Goemon, , , or getting in because I have a deep connection with this franchise I grew up playing.

So who's the remaining Mii costumes?
Geno, Chocobo, Lloyd, Heihachi, Gil, and Rathalos? I think I got them all.

Them and Mega Man X.

 

[Deleted member]

Them and Mega Man X.

Mega Man.EXE: Am I a joke to you?

 

[Deleted member]

Oh wow, I forgot that EXE hasn't returned. For some reason I just thought that he returned with Zero, but it was Protoman instead.
Edit: I edited this to EXE after X, but apparently they're both missing. That's really strange.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Mega Man.EXE: Am I a joke to you?

Oh and EXE too.

Oh wow, I forgot that EXE hasn't returned. For some reason I just thought that he returned with Zero, but it was Protoman instead.

X hasn't return either.

 

[PatPrime]

Soul Calibur or Tales of Symphony might not mean nothing to you, but it does to a lot of other people like myself. I grew up with the Soul Calibur games, so the franchise is a critical part and memory of my gaming childhood. Nightmare or Yoshimitsu getting in the game would almost make me as happy as Goemon, , , or getting in because I have a deep connection with this franchise I grew up playing.



Them and Mega Man X.

Of course they mean a lot to others, I'm not trying to undermine them. I just gave an opinion and showed what my tastes in games are a little bit. And I said that I do like Soul Calibur. It's Tales Of and Guilty Gear that I don't care for personally.

 

[Vector Victor]

I was hoping for more Nintendo characters like Dixie or Isaac. Looks like Geno's the closest we have to that.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Well that ain't going to happen.

Dude...

datadiggers found 11 more slots (and yes this is after terry was added)

And some of them from his prediction are considered close to be considered shoe in

Ryu hayabusa
Crash bandicoot
Doomguy
And possibly are man geno

By the way for everyone I just realized something and some of you know

Out of all the deconfirmed characters none of them are from bandi namco I think that’s fat mans reasoningn for Lloyd or nightmare