Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Fatmanonice]

I agree with this...but there is no hint or clue to them as of yet.

Also EricTheGamerman I agree on your points earlier. Maybe I should have clarified as a personal take I believe that 'insert earlier text'. I had forgotten about DQ 11 for NX, so thank you for that reminder lol.

The DLC for Ultimate thus far has been pretty fan service heavy. So we could assume this trend might continue for the next two. If that is the case....then who are left from the speculation days?

Geno and Isaac are the ones that come to mind immediately. Who else?

Geno's pretty much the last one from the Brawl days that hasn't already been confirmed or made into an assist trophy or a Pokeball Pokemon. It's kind of nuts. Going through them, there's 16 that had decent Brawl followings, (13 ATs, 3 Pokes), with 5 of the ATs being added in this game and 1 AT and 1 Poke being added back in after being cut from a previous game. As for Brawl era popular characters that became playable, there's now 18 with the inclusion of Banjo, with 5 being added in this game alone.

 

[GenoFlash]

I've said this already but it's still profoundly weird to me that Sakurai acknowledge Geno's popularity but didn't put him in as an AT come Ultimate, just a Spirit.

 

[Ovaltine]

It would be very odd and pretty sad if Geno is the only one left without any sort of tangible representation (i.e. not just the PNG or the Mii costume, basically having his own 3D model in-game). That's a pretty big ouch.

 

[GenoFlash]

It would be very odd and pretty sad if Geno is the only one left without any sort of tangible representation (i.e. not just the PNG or the Mii costume, basically having his own 3D model in-game). That's a pretty big ouch.

The only explanation for a total lack of Geno, AT or playable, in this game is that his fanbase really isn't as big as previously envisioned and that's weird to me because Sakurai probably gets flooded with tons of requests but specifically called out Geno as a character who receives a lot. I'm having a hard time believing a company that now has two characters in Cloud and Hero (with four distinct alts) would flat deny the chance to make a tiny cult character they don't use an AT for the game when they already negotiated the rights to his appearance for his Spirit.

It's maybe overly optimistic of me, but I feel the slot was left open in case Geno could be squeezed into the Fighter Pass.

 

[YsDisciple]

I still believe that Geno may indeed come as a surprise 6th character (free maybe?); potentially revealed after the 5th fighter.

 

[domriver]

IF Geno (and i hope he is) is apart of the Fighter Pass would be the one to be announced last? or will be be the 4th one? Then again Nintendo isn't really great on ending with a bang reveal. Ala : Ken and Incineroar. King K Rool should have been the character to end with. ( in my opinion) i think it would have been alot better. Also regarding the announcements for the 4th and final reveal. When would they come? so the 4th or at least we think will be released in Nov. Dec ? Joker was announced Dec. 2018 released in April. 4 months. Sakurai mentioned at the time of his announcement he did not have a tangible form in development. Joker released in april.
E3 June. Both Hero and BK are announced WITH game play footage. Which i think its safe to say their are just probably adjusting things and bugs. Hero maybe released in July? or to early. Banjo maybe in October or even in Sept. Nintendo direct on sept/oct reveal 4th char for Winter release my guess is in Dec. 5th DLC announced game awards for February release. ( im skeptical about game awards that they may reveal the final character) I see a mini-direct for smash happening in December or January. With Sakurai revealing the final DLC + Bonus char ( maybe) . What you all think>?

 

[MattX20]

Well, one of the few really noteworthy characters left that has a sizable fanbase that could potentially get in beyond Geno and Banjo is Crash Bandicoot. DoomGuy/DoomSlayer I'm not so sure of, but Crash has had a fairly sizable following from Brawl to the present. He's arguably the last major gaming icon left that would really make a huge impact/gather a substantial amount of hype upon his reveal.

 

[Fatmanonice]

The only explanation for a total lack of Geno, AT or playable, in this game is that his fanbase really isn't as big as previously envisioned and that's weird to me because Sakurai probably gets flooded with tons of requests but specifically called out Geno as a character who receives a lot. I'm having a hard time believing a company that now has two characters in Cloud and Hero (with four distinct alts) would flat deny the chance to make a tiny cult character they don't use an AT for the game when they already negotiated the rights to his appearance for his Spirit.

It's maybe overly optimistic of me, but I feel the slot was left open in case Geno could be squeezed into the Fighter Pass.

I wouldn't say that. The evidence is definitely there, kind of like that data I posted the other day where Geno's in the top 5 for third party characters and top 10 for newcomers when you look at the 45,000+ votes compiled from major polls around the world. Statistically speaking, this is pretty significant despite it being a sample size. It's also interesting when you see how things have played out and how there seems to be a decent amount of correlation between playable characters and assist trophies and how popular they were.

 

[EarlTamm]

Well, one of the few really noteworthy characters left that has a sizable fanbase that could potentially get in beyond Geno and Banjo is Crash Bandicoot. DoomGuy/DoomSlayer I'm not so sure of, but Crash has had a fairly sizable following from Brawl to the present. He's arguably the last major gaming icon left that would really make a huge impact/gather a substantial amount of hype upon his reveal.

I think Doomguy is the sort of newcomer that has gotten more and more popular over time. I don't know about Brawl or Smash 4, but he has been ranking high when it comes to Ultimate.

 

[Pokemaster73]

I think Doomguy is the sort of newcomer that has gotten more and more popular over time. I don't know about Brawl or Smash 4, but he has been ranking high when it comes to Ultimate.

Mostly because the idea of him in Smash just wasn't fathomable at the time. Now? It feels like literally any character is possible.

 

[Axelocke]

Not sure about anybody else, but these recent E3 reveals haven't shaken my faith in Geno one bit. Banjo proved to us that basically anyone is fair game!

 

[Deleted member]

If Geno happens, he will not be a part of the Fighter Pass, that's what im personally certain about.

I think that regardless of what happened with PP, the Fighters Pass and it's 5 Third Party characters were already on their way. PP was just a base roster character (examplified by his Guidance and the fact that he has one of those 21 second character showcase video, which no other DLC fighter has) repurposed as a DLC character due to time constraints or to test waters (kinda like Mewtwo in Smash 4)

Im not sure if it worked assuming it's the latter, but it's entirely possible for non-Fighter Pass characters to be DLC. It would be where already-represented franchises would have a chance, and in this scenario im sure that Spirits would not matter that much (because at the time spirits were beign licensed and created, PP was meant to be a Base Roster character instead of a DLC one, i mean i dobut that Lucas was planned for DLC when his Smash 4 base trophy was beign made)

Of course, this is all assumptions that could easily fall apart, but it would explain some of those World of Light spots. Not all of them would be used obviously.

 

[EarlTamm]

Mostly because the idea of him in Smash just wasn't fathomable at the time. Now? It feels like literally any character is possible.

Oh, most definitely. I also think it's especially the case for any character that had fan rules blocking then previously, in which Doomguy had multiple. We live in a world where it's completely feasible due to past reps that a western, M rated, gun toting FPS legend could get into Smash. It's kinda incredible to see how things have changed.

 

[FalconFire93]

If Geno doesn’t show up in Ultimate through the FP or other DLC, I’m still holding out hope for at least a Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars Remake or a Remastered version for the Switch so that newer generations can get to know Geno and how cool of a character he is.

Spoiler: Hypothetical Reveal Trailer for Sephiroth

But I have a hypothetical trailer if Sephiroth was revealed as a fighter in the FP...

Cloud is fighting off the shadow fighters in World of Light with Link, Marth, The Hero, and Shulk.

*Everyone gets knocked out by a mysterious force except Cloud*

*The dust clears from the scuffle and we see Sephiroth’s Masamune sword gleam and the camera pans up to Sephiroth’s face*

Sephiroth: *In Japanese* Long time no see, Cloud... (voice in Japanese to match Cloud’s voice)

*One Winged Angel begins playing*

*splash screen* SEPHIROTH FALLS INTO SMASH!

*Cloud and Sephiroth begin to clash, trailer ends*

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

If Geno was a pokemon, what type would he be?

Mario - Normal/ Fire
Mallow - Flying
Geno - Psychic/ Steel
Peach - Normal/ Fairy
Bowser - Dragon

Why steel? So he could get STAB from bullet moves. LOL

 

[GenoFlash]

Just a thought that's crept into my mind, but does anyone think that Smash Legacy might hinder Geno's chances since it includes him as a playable character?

 

[GoodGrief741]

Just a thought that's crept into my mind, but does anyone think that Smash Legacy might hinder Geno's chances since it includes him as a playable character?

No, why would it?

 

[GenoFlash]

No, why would it?

Just the idea that Geno's moveset in that game could step on potential ideas for realizing him in Smash Ultimate.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Just a thought that's crept into my mind, but does anyone think that Smash Legacy might hinder Geno's chances since it includes him as a playable character?

I don't think they'd let a mod affect their decision.

Just the idea that Geno's moveset in that game could step on potential ideas for realizing him in Smash Ultimate.

I think K. Rool fans suggested moves that ended up being in Ultimate, so idk.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I don't think they'd let a mod affect their decision.



I think K. Rool fans suggested moves that ended up being in Ultimate, so idk.

A LOT of K Rool's moves are what fans expected. I was surprised with him how close he was to what fans expected

 

[link2702]

If Geno was a pokemon, what type would he be?

Mario - Normal/ Fire
Mallow - Flying
Geno - Psychic/ Steel
Peach - Normal/ Fairy
Bowser - Dragon

Why steel? So he could get STAB from bullet moves. LOL

Grass/steel imo.

Wooden puppet and all. Also he turns into a cannon that shoots a giant sun at enemies. More or less solar beam.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

A LOT of K Rool's moves are what fans expected. I was surprised with him how close he was to what fans expected

Both Banjo Kazooie and King K. Rool seem to take a lot from what the fans had established as their potential movesets, so I don't see a fully realized Geno in a fan made game would have any effect on Ultimate.

And while I've never played Legacy XP since I don't really know how to set everything up (Project M was easier in that regard), I'm very happy that Geno at least exists in some fully realized form in a Smash Mod.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Grass/steel imo.

Wooden puppet and all. Also he turns into a cannon that shoots a giant sun at enemies. More or less solar beam.

His cosmic origin makes me think he'd be a psychic type in the least. It's not like Grass doesn't make sense though

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I feel at worst Geno's moveset in Ultimate would be very similar to the one he has in Legacy XP. I don't see a fan mod of Brawl getting in the way of his inclusion; in fact I wouldn't be surprised if the Smash devs are unaware of its existence.

 

[thirsty-pocket]

I really hate to be a downer, but I just cannot see a second fighter pass, or any bonus Fighters unrelated to the fighter pass. Being a longtime Nintendo fan has taught me not to expect more than what Nintendo tells you that they are giving you. Once Nintendo tells you a definitive number, that's usually it. If they don't have a definitive number, they just don't tell you. And to me, the five character fighter pass seemed pretty definitive. and I would double down on this dance since it's Sakurai in particular. He's not really a fan of season passes to begin with, and is tired of working on these smash games.
I think there is a decently sized chance that Geno is our last fighter. But I also think there's a decent chance the last two fighters may be somewhat underwhelming. Smash tends to front-loaded announcements that way. And if Geno isn't in the fighter pass, I'm just going to call it. I would be pleasantly surprised if they did announce him as a stand-alone bonus character, but I really won't be expecting it.

although regarding doomguy, I'm not sure he's as likely as we think, given that his support in Smash is fairly recent. I'm not sure when the planning phase 4 DLC started, but it was definitely before the game released, and doomguy didn't have much support until after the fact. Personally though, I would welcome him.

 

[GrungeMan]

If Geno was a pokemon, what type would he be?

Mario - Normal/ Fire
Mallow - Flying
Geno - Psychic/ Steel
Peach - Normal/ Fairy
Bowser - Dragon

Why steel? So he could get STAB from bullet moves. LOL

If there was a Cosmic type, then that be my guess for Geno, but I agree - either Psychic/Steel or Psychic/Fairy, but definitely psychic.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Geno, like K. Rool and Isaac, benefits from having a really obvious moveset. It's likely that if he gets in down the line he'll play like many have envisioned him to.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I really hate to be a downer, but I just cannot see a second fighter pass, or any bonus Fighters unrelated to the fighter pass. Being a longtime Nintendo fan has taught me not to expect more than what Nintendo tells you that they are giving you. Once Nintendo tells you a definitive number, that's usually it. If they don't have a definitive number, they just don't tell you. And to me, the five character fighter pass seemed pretty definitive. and I would double down on this dance since it's Sakurai in particular. He's not really a fan of season passes to begin with, and is tired of working on these smash games.
I think there is a decently sized chance that Geno is our last fighter. But I also think there's a decent chance the last two fighters may be somewhat underwhelming. Smash tends to front-loaded announcements that way. And if Geno isn't in the fighter pass, I'm just going to call it. I would be pleasantly surprised if they did announce him as a stand-alone bonus character, but I really won't be expecting it.

although regarding doomguy, I'm not sure he's as likely as we think, given that his support in Smash is fairly recent. I'm not sure when the planning phase 4 DLC started, but it was definitely before the game released, and doomguy didn't have much support until after the fact. Personally though, I would welcome him.

I’m not really expecting much of anything beyond the Fighter’s Pass. I think it’s worth considering and fun to speculate on in light of recent events, but it’s also a long shot until Sakurai says something more definitive on the future of DLC in Smash Ultimate.

That said, I don’t think it’s an issue of them saying this is the content we’re getting. What we need to be looking for is the “finality” of certain reveals. When Sakurai says, “take a look at the final DLC character for Super Smash Bros Ultimate” is more specifically the moment we’re looking for and a better gauge than the DLC or content we were proof about in advance. It’s also worth noting Nintendo just kind of does weird extra stuff all the time. VR modes in Super Mario Odyssey, Breath of the Wild, and Smash. Putting the Master Cycle in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe after over a year of no content updates for the game. Returning to Pokken Tournament super late in its life cycle for DLC. Etc. Even the end may not be the end, and a long period without content doesn’t necessarily guarantee we won’t one day see more content show up. It’s best not to count on that and I do suspect Smash will get the most definitive “endpoint” of any Switch game in terms of support so far. But it’s also worth noting how Nintendo just often does stuff out of nowhere.

 

[Vector Victor]

Whelp, its summer. Where's Hero? He was promised summer 2019!

 

[FalconFire93]

If Geno was a pokemon, what type would he be?

Mario - Normal/ Fire
Mallow - Flying
Geno - Psychic/ Steel
Peach - Normal/ Fairy
Bowser - Dragon

Why steel? So he could get STAB from bullet moves. LOL

Psychic/Grass (due to his puppet form)
Psychic/Steel or
Psychic/Fairy (due to his cosmic powers and mystical abilities)

Whelp, its summer. Where's Hero? He was promised summer 2019!

My guess is he’ll release around mid-August-early-September, but that’s just my opinion.

 

[Vector Victor]

My guess is he’ll release around mid-August-early-September, but that’s just my opinion.

Probably pull a Kingdom Hearts BBS and release their summer game September 9th.

Still technically summer.

 

[Firox]

The only explanation for a total lack of Geno, AT or playable, in this game is that his fanbase really isn't as big as previously envisioned and that's weird to me because Sakurai probably gets flooded with tons of requests but specifically called out Geno as a character who receives a lot. I'm having a hard time believing a company that now has two characters in Cloud and Hero (with four distinct alts) would flat deny the chance to make a tiny cult character they don't use an AT for the game when they already negotiated the rights to his appearance for his Spirit.

It's maybe overly optimistic of me, but I feel the slot was left open in case Geno could be squeezed into the Fighter Pass.

The fact that Geno has been made into a spirit and mii costume tells me that both Sakurai and Nintendo recognize not only Geno as a notable character, but also the size of his following. That said, I'm still firmly of the belief that if Geno doesn't get in, it's purely the fault of Sakurai and his inexplicable unwillingness to put him in despite whatever he's said in the past. My reasoning? Firstly, in light of Cloud and Hero, SE has absolutely NO REASON to deny Geno at this point, especially since they would have so much to profit for simply offering up a character they would never intend to use otherwise. Now, some could argue that the Nintendo execs, who were allegedly the ones behind the Fighter Pass selection (which I question due to Atlus' claims that Joker was almost exclusively the work of Sakurai), might op out of having Geno. Given how fan service the FP has been thus far, I don't see any evidence to support this claim. In that case, the only other deciding factor would be Papa Sakurai himself. He may have said during the Brawl era that he would've liked to have Geno in, but let me remind you that 39 characters have been added to the game since then, and of those, we have several echoes, a non-character from a dying peripheral, another pair of non-characters from an ancient NES peripheral, and a potted plant that each took higher priority than Geno. Banjo, among many others, has proven that if Sakurai wants them, he gets them. Thus, if we don't get them, it can only be because HE, for whatever unfathomable reason, doesn't want them. Let's hope that his desires really do align with ours.

(And for clarification, when I said "non-character", I meant an entity that no one had previously considered a character in the same way as Mario, Link, etc. until Sakurai deemed it so.)

 

[Fatmanonice]

It really is true that there really aren't any obstacles for Geno anymore. Sakurai pretty much broke his own rules about importance (Pirhana Plant), relevance (Banjo), history with Nintendo (Joker) and even international appeal (Hero) with the DLC alone so it ultimately comes down to whether Sakurai tried this time because, given how much Hero's getting, I have a hard time seeing Square being the issue this time around.

 

[Firox]

My greatest hope is that when Sakurai said that the Nintendo execs were the ones behind the fighter's pass, what he meant to say was, "Nintendo wants to sell some DLC and so I've been asked to give the people what they want. Let the fan service roll!"

 

[Shado-will]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this before, but Nintendo had supposedly given a list (or something like that) of characters to Sakurai to pick from for DLC, right? If Banjo-Kazooie was on that list, then they obviously have been listening to fan demand, so who's to say Geno wasn't on the list?

 

[AugustusB]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this before, but Nintendo had supposedly given a list (or something like that) of characters to Sakurai to pick from for DLC, right? If Banjo-Kazooie was on that list, then they obviously have been listening to fan demand, so who's to say Geno wasn't on the list?

I am certainly guilty of being among the first to spread this rumor I feel.

I suggested, through Sakurai's wording, that he MAY have had a list from Nintendo to pick said DLC fighters. It could have easily have been "Hey Sakurai can you make this character work?" and either he said yes or no. To which they asked for a different character....and that seems maddening to me.

A list makes sense to me personally. They could have negotiated for some characters to promote an upcoming game (Joker for P5R or P5Scram and The Hero for DQ 11S). This, to me, seems the most likely.

But yeah, the fact Banjo & Kazooie are in the Pass, a lot of rules are either destroyed, or took a hit. Now we just need the 'Not one company can have multiple DLC fighters' rule. (Hopefully Square really likes money)

 

[Firox]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this before, but Nintendo had supposedly given a list (or something like that) of characters to Sakurai to pick from for DLC, right? If Banjo-Kazooie was on that list, then they obviously have been listening to fan demand, so who's to say Geno wasn't on the list?

My thoughts exactly.

 

[FalconFire93]

Probably pull a Kingdom Hearts BBS and release their summer game September 9th.

Still technically summer.

Most likely and Banjo will probably be a couple months afterwards.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

It really is true that there really aren't any obstacles for Geno anymore. Sakurai pretty much broke his own rules about importance (Pirhana Plant), relevance (Banjo), history with Nintendo (Joker) and even international appeal (Hero) with the DLC alone so it ultimately comes down to whether Sakurai tried this time because, given how much Hero's getting, I have a hard time seeing Square being the issue this time around.

Well, right now Smash is sans Undertale. And unfortunately for us that's just the right kind of requirements for Undertale

 

[Fatmanonice]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this before, but Nintendo had supposedly given a list (or something like that) of characters to Sakurai to pick from for DLC, right? If Banjo-Kazooie was on that list, then they obviously have been listening to fan demand, so who's to say Geno wasn't on the list?

I feel like Joker being present is kind of a sign too. All Persona 5 is getting on Switch is a spin-off so the incentive to add him wasn't super high aside from the fact that Sakurai (very obviously) wanted him in.