Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

EricTheGamerman · Jun 19, 2019

I mean there's plenty of room for non fan favorites in the Fighter's Pass too. Crash Bandicoot wasn't/isn't exactly a fan favorite, but you'd be hard pressed to find people who would be disappointed at his inclusion on most areas of the internet. He's certainly done better than before in terms of fan popularity, but the point stands that the conventional "fan favorite" moniker is very limited and at this point, most of them are out of the running anyway (if third party is all were getting, which I suspect is the case, then there's what... Geno and Sora... and that's it for third party "fan favorites"... maybe Lloyd Irving for his Brawl era popularity). It's better if we just say we want interesting and cool characters rather than one specific sub-type of character inclusion since that's just a bit too limited.

Also, as a side note, you can roughly separate the characters into four categories (that are not mutually exclusive in the least bit): Sakurai picks, Fan Requests, Legacy picks/third parties, and recent all-stars/new game picks. Joker acts as a Sakurai pick, Banjo Kazooie operates as the fan request, and Dragon Quest operates under the legacy pick AND the new game pick. The DLC has been actually quite balanced with a pick from seemingly each category so far haha.

I have to say one small piece on the earlier conversations and I'll leave it at that. I've had female friends of mine talk about how much representation matters for them. Like the big female team-up scene in Endgame nearly reduced one of my friends to tears just because she got to see something she didn't traditionally grow up seeing on the big screen. The base line of representation can mean a lot to some people, so let's not be ****ty and discredit people who say they want to see a particular type of character in game, especially when it's potentially born of a very personal and real feelings that go well beyond a damn video game.

(I realize I've been harsh on people about being anti-Swordsman and I would like to take a moment to maybe contextualize. I don't like exclusionary practices period. I think it's absolutely fine to say, "I want more cartoon-ish, animal-like, etc. characters in the game." I just don't think that should come with the anti-swordsman rhetoric that it can sometimes come with and I try to focus on that part of an argument. If I've seemed more hostile than intended in those moments or less inclusive than I should have been, I genuinely apologize for any issues I may have caused in that area).

ForsakenM · Jun 19, 2019

GenoFlash said:

Gonna be on the unpopular opinion fence on this one, but frankly diversity in gaming only makes sense depending on the creative design of the game.

For example, people are demanding that Kefla or Caulifla and Kale get into FighterZ before more-demanded veterans like Master Roshi, Jenemba and Kid Goku. Hell, half the demand for Videl was because she had boobs, not because she's a badass normal. Forget that she's a badass who learned to fly and was trained by Gohan and the mother of Pan, she is XX chromosome so GET HER IN THE GAME! Forget that most of Dragon Ball is dudes duking it out, we want wamenz because diversity! Or, you know, you COULD just put in the characters people who really care about the game really want.

Is it our fault that most of the characters we want aren't female, black, Native American or part of any other minority? No, it's not: we want what characters we want because they are cool and we love them. Maybe companies should start making cooler characters that fall naturally into a minority group instead of slapping it on whoever they feel like because labels sell.
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On a less controversial not, I am starting my Blind Play-through of FF7 at 4PM CST, so in less than 30 mins. If you wanna join I'll be on Twitch at https://www.twitch.tv/forsakenm and if you like me enough on stream you can find my times consistently on https://twitter.com/ForsakenM45 . Hope to see some of my homebois there!

GenoFlash · Jun 19, 2019

ForsakenM said:

Gonna be on the unpopular opinion fence on this one, but frankly diversity in gaming only makes sense depending on the creative design of the game.

For example, people are demanding that Kefla or Caulifla and Kale get into FighterZ before more-demanded veterans like Master Roshi, Jenemba and Kid Goku. Hell, half the demand for Videl was because she had boobs, not because she's a badass normal. Forget that she's a badass who learned to fly and was trained by Gohan and the mother of Pan, she is XX chromosome so GET HER IN THE GAME! Forget that most of Dragon Ball is dudes duking it out, we want wamenz because diversity! Or, you know, you COULD just put in the characters people who really care about the game really want.

Is it our fault that most of the characters we want aren't female, black, Native American or part of any other minority? No, it's not: we want what characters we want because they are cool and we love them. Maybe companies should start making cooler characters that fall naturally into a minority group instead of slapping it on whoever they feel like because labels sell.
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On a less controversial not, I am starting my Blind Play-through of FF7 at $PM CST, so in less than 30 mins. If you wanna join I'll be on Twitch at https://www.twitch.tv/forsakenm and if you like me enough on stream you can find my times consistently on https://twitter.com/ForsakenM45 . Hope to see some of my homebois there!

Your desire for new characters can also be informed by a lack of representation. Maybe the people who wanted Videl in the game also noted the huge lack of female characters in Dragon Ball on top of really liking her. I know I did, at any rate.

And lol at pretending Master Roshi and Kid Hecking Goku the Seventh are more worthy than Kefla.

Firox · Jun 19, 2019

Gotta admit, I liked it way better in the older DBZ fighting games when you could actually power up and transform. It actually felt more like the show. I know the mechanics are different in DBFighterZ, but it never made sense to me to have 5 Gokus, etc. Especially when you have base or SS forms that are more powerful than certain SS Blue forms which doesn't make any canonical sense.

owjies · Jun 19, 2019

Datboigeno said:

The first character that comes to mind is Hsien-Ko (Lei Lei) from Darkstalkers. I have a feeling that Geno, a possessed doll with hidden weapons, would get along really well with Hsien-Ko, a possessed zombie with hidden weapons. I can imagine them talking shop, comparing their respective arsenals.

EricTheGamerman · Jun 19, 2019

ForsakenM said:

I'm not trying to get super into this because I don't think that the Mods will really allow it. But I would like to remind people that video games were primarily developed to cater to a young male demographic for years and have had some issues with representation as a medium because of that hyper focus. A lot of gaming culture is really toxic and exclusionary. Hell, look at Smash fandoms and how people have a tendency to be super territorial about things and shoot down a wide variety of picks for this reason and that one just on mere existence alone.

I agree, gaming needs to get better in terms of legitimate representation that isn't shoehorned into games just to fill some arbitrary quota because that results in poorly developed characters, stories, concepts, etc. But that legacy of being exclusionary and being almost entirely focused on a specific demographic is what got us to the point of needing that in the first place. It's an industry wide issue that just needs work. And while I agree that some situations don't really call for certain representation, there's lots of perfectly valid areas where representation is lacking and there aren't great explanations for it.

Also, just for fun. Is there any way to really determine if Geno is actually male or female? I mean, we've always referred to him as male in our discussions, but when the spirit assumes the form of Geno, it says that it chose "him" referring to the doll called Geno... The actual spirit ♥♪!? could potentially be anything then! (assuming I'm remembering Super Mario RPG correctly on those points haha).

StormC · Jun 19, 2019

Posters like

EricTheGamerman and

GenoFlash are killing it in this thread, but my own two cents:

Video games like Smash aren't made for just me. Smash Ultimate sold over 12 million copies in under a month, and many of those consumers are people from all walks of life and backgrounds. As a white-ish dude, I am pretty much the ****ing king of video game representation. It is so easy for me to find characters I can project onto and relate to, speaking strictly from a superficial visual standpoint.

I'm also autistic. There are very few portrayals of autistic characters in media that don't feel like either a played out stereotype or are "if you squint really hard maybe they're autistic." I generally don't talk about autism because I feel ashamed of it and would prefer others not know. You can see from my avatar I'm a big fan of Persona 5. One of the reasons for that is the portrayal of Futaba, who is not explicitly said to be autistic, but is characterized in a way that hits so many familiar chords with autistic people, myself included, and is portrayed positively while avoiding many of the pratfalls you could get in these types of characters (name a genuinely autistic character that is portrayed as a heroic power fantasy). Characters like Futaba make me feel like maybe I don't have to be the socially awkward loser I was growing up just because I'm autistic. It's such an important thing that even when you get the tiniest scrap, it feels like an oasis in the desert.

Smash is reflective of the industry and its problems with representation. I would never say "add this character because they're female," but I think there are certain scenarios where it makes sense to go with a female option to balance things a bit better. For example, previously I was more interested in having Leon Kennedy as a Resident Evil character than Jill Valentine, but after getting my pipe dream character in Banjo-Kazooie, I think it would almost be selfish of me to get Leon over Jill. I wouldn't complain if I did, but I think for the sake of variety, going with Jill, an iconic female protagonist in gaming history with plenty going for her, is a smart call. (I'll settle for a Leon alt.)

A lot of posters in this thread feel like they're afraid to leave their social bubble of people that aren't like them and view people outside of it as invaders taking away their games. I'm also seeing the general sentiment post-Banjo that the Pass NEEDS to be fan favorites from here on out, and I don't agree and don't expect it to be like that.

People exist besides you. Their wants are valid.

wynn728 · Jun 19, 2019

ForsakenM said:

Oh no, most people want Kefla or Caulifla and Kale in FighterZ because they were a big highlight during the Tournament of Power. The Ultra Instinct Goku vs Kefla was really great, and the interaction between Caulifla and Kale was really fun when they're with the rest of the cast.

It's okay to want characters regardless of what they are or what they're based on or quota they fill, but I do feel like it's good to have diversity in any kind of shape. I would love for Ashley to be in the game because we really don't have that many characters that are strictly magic base. There's like what, Zelda, Palutena, and Robin and that's it when it comes to magic users? We don't have anyone that uses a magic wand. Also Minmin or Twintelle being the ARMS rep would be awesome since Springman is pretty basic. With Minmin they could have her have that charge up Dragon Laser and the heavy punch, Twintelle could have Bayonetta's Down-B along with Ice Punches, Parasol and homing bird attack. There's a lot of misopportunities when it comes to ARMS and Smash Bros. And don't even get me started when it comes to Rex & Pyra.

EarlTamm · Jun 19, 2019

EricTheGamerman said:

I recall discussion about this a long, long time ago. It's certainly possible that the spirit of Geno could be anything gender wise, as the Geno we did inherited most of his identifications from the doll. I imagine it would do the same for the Peach doll if it had been chosen.

xpnc · Jun 19, 2019

Datboigeno said:

I have it on good authority that Geno is a Linkle fan

EarlTamm · Jun 19, 2019

xpnc said:

Color me curious, why is that?

xpnc · Jun 19, 2019

EarlTamm said:

I was astrally projecting to Star Road the other night and a formless entity identifying itself only as a string of four unicode characters gave me a crash course on the Hyrule Warriors tier list

During an aside it informed me that Linkle was its pick for Smash

EarlTamm · Jun 19, 2019

xpnc said:

I was astrally projecting to Star Road the other night and a formless entity identifying itself only as a string of four unicode characters gave me a crash course on the Hyrule Warriors tier list

During an aside it informed me that Linkle was its pick for Smash

Ah, so Twitter then.

SSGuy · Jun 19, 2019

Who is the most boomer pick for a female character? That is who Geno needs to be associated with. None of this Tracer bs you know.

Wazygoose · Jun 19, 2019

GenoFlash said:

I read this as satire and laughed, did no one else?

ZelDan · Jun 19, 2019

SSGuy said:

I dunno, Dixie Kong maybe?

GenoFlash · Jun 19, 2019

ZelDan said:

Definitely Dixie Kong.

GoodGrief741 · Jun 19, 2019

I always figured Geno would have a crush on Vivi. Maybe due to similar color schemes.

thirsty-pocket · Jun 19, 2019

SSGuy said:

it's got to be Laura Croft. Poster girl for video games in the 90s. I never touched the games myself, but I would never stop hearing about Laura in magazines and the schoolyard.

StormC · Jun 19, 2019

My girlfriend is a lifelong Tomb Raider fan and would probably lose her mind if Lara got into Smash.

N3ON · Jun 19, 2019

I certainly don’t agree with every opinion from the last few pages, but I am grateful that, as opposed to some... other sites... we can at least have this kind of discourse without one side or another getting banned over it.

EarlTamm · Jun 19, 2019

You know, I just realized...
It's going to be weird to see tons of people shipping Geno after a hypothetical reveal. That is a universal truth of post reveal reaction, especially when art is taken into account. I mean, Geno isn't typically shipped as of now, right?

xpnc · Jun 19, 2019

EarlTamm said:

You know, I just realized...
It's going to be weird to see tons of people shipping Geno after a hypothetical reveal. That is a universal truth of post reveal reaction, especially when art is taken into account. I mean, Geno isn't typically shipped as of now, right?

no the puppet is pure

Weeman · Jun 19, 2019

EarlTamm said:

Geno wouldn't be shipped, Geno would be put in the pure bois bin alongside Pichu, Kirby, Yoshi and Ridley.

GenoFlash · Jun 19, 2019

EarlTamm said:

You know, I just realized...
It's going to be weird to see tons of people shipping Geno after a hypothetical reveal. That is a universal truth of post reveal reaction, especially when art is taken into account. I mean, Geno isn't typically shipped as of now, right?

Cursed post.

MissingGlitch · Jun 19, 2019

Weeman said:

I wouldn't really call Yoshi pure. He has been on the U.S governments most wanted list for years.

Just a random scrub · Jun 19, 2019

Weeman said:

-Implying those characters don't get shipped

EarlTamm · Jun 19, 2019

xpnc said:

Weeman said:

Ships can be pure.

요즘 룸메도 브와해서 같이구경하는데 옆에떨어진 링젤주워먹는거 너무 맛잇음...ㅠㅠ..ㅠ.ㅠ#BreathoftheWild pic.twitter.com/PFV4V16Dcy
— 며용 (@friedbirdchips) June 18, 2019

See? Pure.
And also, none of the character's you mentioned are pure

Weeman . They are guilty of self harm, being a destroyer of worlds, tax evasion and being Ridley. Also, all of them are still shipped.

GenoFlash · Jun 19, 2019

Crossposting from ResetERA, but I've been thinking about Colour Theory as of late and how that can apply to Geno.

Now I'm not going to say there's going to be a blue character outright, but I do think two points about the Fighter Pass.

- We aren't going to get any more characters whose primary colour is red, purple or yellow, as those are already covered (Joker, Hero and Banjo, respectively).

- How the DLC characters complement each other visually was a major factor in how they were chosen. How boring would it be if the Fighter Pass was, say, five red-coded guys? I think that was something heavily considered when deciding on the five characters, on a level of importance that might matter more than how the characters actually play.

Which brings me to Geno, a character defined by his blue cape and orange ribbons. He feels like the character who could be the Fighter Pass' Blue Guy, alongside other characters such as Jill Valentine, Leon Kennedy, Phoenix Wright and KOS-MOS.

Moreover thus far the Fighter's Pass consists of two realistically proportioned blade wielding anime teenagers and cartoon animal mascot Banjo. Geno's squat stature and artificial body provides enough of a distinct visual identity that he'd easily stand out amidst the rest of the pass unless the fifth character were to somehow step on his image and in that regard I think the only character who would is KOS-MOS, a similarly artificial character loaded with guns.

So ultimately I'm not saying "Geno is blue and the Fighter Pass is missing a blue character, Geno confirmed." I do want to bring up the more positive merits that Colour Theory brings.

YsDisciple · Jun 19, 2019

GenoFlash said:

Crossposting from ResetERA, but I've been thinking about Colour Theory as of late and how that can apply to Geno.

Now I'm not going to say there's going to be a blue character outright, but I do think two points about the Fighter Pass.

- We aren't going to get any more characters whose primary colour is red, purple or yellow, as those are already covered (Joker, Hero and Banjo, respectively).

- How the DLC characters complement each other visually was a major factor in how they were chosen. How boring would it be if the Fighter Pass was, say, five red-coded guys? I think that was something heavily considered when deciding on the five characters, on a level of importance that might matter more than how the characters actually play.

Which brings me to Geno, a character defined by his blue cape and orange ribbons. He feels like the character who could be the Fighter Pass' Blue Guy, alongside other characters such as Jill Valentine, Leon Kennedy, Phoenix Wright and KOS-MOS.

Moreover thus far the Fighter's Pass consists of two realistically proportioned blade wielding anime teenagers and cartoon animal mascot Banjo. Geno's squat stature and artificial body provides enough of a distinct visual identity that he'd easily stand out amidst the rest of the pass unless the fifth character were to somehow step on his image and in that regard I think the only character who would is KOS-MOS, a similarly artificial character loaded with guns.

So ultimately I'm not saying "Geno is blue and the Fighter Pass is missing a blue character, Geno confirmed." I do want to bring up the more positive merits that Colour Theory brings.

There you have it! The remaining colors potentially being blue and orange, Geno sharing them both, however when both colors are mixed together they make the color brown (color of wood), thus revealing that... Geno will be the surprise 6th fighter!!!

Ok, I'ma stop this tomfoolery.

UberPyro64 · Jun 19, 2019

Blue = Challenger Pack #4: Jill
Orange = Challenger Pack #5: Doom Slayer
Brown = Bonus Fighter #2: Geno

ShotoStar 2 · Jun 19, 2019

This isn't happening even if Geno is in Smash but I thought of something funny. Geno is a Spirit in Smash but he's also a spirit in Super Mario RPG which is possessing a doll. Spirits in Smash possess doll/puppet fighters and Geno is a doll.

Imagine if Geno gets in Smash and the spirit he has in the game currently which is a spirit of the doll gets replaced by his actual star spirit form or vice-versa and his fighter spirit is his Spirit Form.

Again it probably won't happen but that would be funny and a neat work around when it comes to his spirit.

UberPyro64 · Jun 19, 2019

ShotoStar 2 said:

This isn't happening even if Geno is in Smash but I thought of something funny. Geno is a Spirit in Smash but he's also a spirit in Super Mario RPG which is possessing a doll. Spirits in Smash possess doll/puppet fighters and Geno is a doll.

Imagine if Geno gets in Smash and the spirit he has in the game currently which is a spirit of the doll gets replaced by his actual star spirit form or vice-versa and his fighter spirit is his Spirit Form.

Again it probably won't happen but that would be funny and a neat work around when it comes to his spirit.

It could be like Cloud and his Fighter Spirit is just his Smash artwork.

Ovaltine · Jun 19, 2019

Shipping Geno isn't something I'm big on, for the most part, but I do love familial and platonic ships with him like you wouldn't believe. Geno looking up to Rosalina as a mother figure is heartwarming to me, and him adoring his new buddies — Mario, Peach, Mallow, and even Bowser — to the point of hoping desperately to have a chance to see them again...

That is the kind of pure love that shapes Geno in my opinion. His friendships are just as sweet as he is.

(Also he is totally a big brother figure to both Gaz and Mallow and no one can tell me otherwise.)

T2by4 · Jun 19, 2019

EarlTamm said:

Don't.

The only relationship he would have, besides being buddies with a majority of the cast, would be his possible mother-son relationship with rosalina. Geno is a pure boy.

ZelDan · Jun 20, 2019

If Geno is so pure, than why doesn't he wear any pants?

EarlTamm · Jun 20, 2019

T2by4 said:

The internet is not so kind my friend. I didn't make the rules. I am all for heartwarming stuff though.

Ovaltine · Jun 20, 2019

EarlTamm said:

I mean, heartwarming stuff is great, yeah. Heck, I can even go with romance if it's done right, but I'm hard-pressed to see Geno with anyone. I believe in him being ace. He just isn't the type to want to be romantically involved. (If anything, he's married to his duty.)

That being said, though, no lewds. No. Never. At least, I'm pretty sure that's what everyone is insinuating for the most part... and that is a big no-no. Geno is a good boy. Do not lewd the good boy.

EarlTamm · Jun 20, 2019

Ovaltine said:

I agree with you. I just want the heartwarming sweet stuff, be it platonic romantic or any other thing(That tweet I linked is my fuel for living). Seeing Geno have any sort of new fanon relationship that is a result of Smash would be so nice. Poor guy has been stuck in the Square vault for so long, he needs new friends.

Lewds are a nope from me, but knowing the internet, it probably has already been done. Nothing is safe or sacred.

MissingGlitch · Jun 20, 2019

ZelDan said:

He has nothing to hide.

Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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