Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

wynn728

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Need more diversity?? Half the roster is made up of women and some of the highest tier characters in the game are women. We got animals, and space animals, and robots, and penguin people, and goddesses, and hipster kids with super soakers, and heart thieves, and a girl that looks more like Marth than Marth does, and tons of gender swap characters, and overly muscular racers with their buttons suspiciously where their nipples should be, and little boys with telekinesis, and sexy amazon chicks in space suits, and alien dragons, and ninja frogs, and a cute couple in parkas that beat people to death with hammers, etc. etc.

Let's not be like the Overwatch community and cry about ticking EVERY box for the sake of inclusivity. "But what about muh old one-eyed granny snipers?! This game is so mono-tone!" Believe me, if Smash has any more boxes to tick, it would be the one for possessed wooden doll boys, ya know what I'm sayin'?

(Disclaimer: Almost all of that rant was satire and not meant to trigger anyone. I hope you enjoyed it. Oh, and to be fair, the DLC actually DOES have a female in it. Remember Kazooie? XP )
True we got a lot of diversity already, but doesn't hurt to have more. I just don't want all majority of the DLC to be human guys, I'm hoping that Joker and The Hero are the last and the rest are different looking characters that aren't exactly human and at least one female character that's preferably not from a JRPG since we already have two characters from that genre.
 

GenoFlash

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I think it would be nice to have more female characters to play as.
Sorry but if you want anyone other than my favourite character it's a Forced Diversity pick by the PC police.

Can't believe this attitude is infecting Smashboards.
 
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Firox

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Well, some popular female characters I could still see getting in, albeit chances my vary:

-Dixie Kong
-Shantae
-Pyra/Mythra (pleeeeease Mythra)
-Tifa (buffed as much as possible ;) )
-Micaiah (Fire Emblem Mage)
-Krystal
 

Fatmanonice

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My wife has pointed out to me how much Geno resembles Snufkin from Moomin and now I can't unsee it. I do wonder if it he influenced the character design, at least partially. Geno is often described as a "scarecrow doll" too so you never know.

250px-Snufkin1990.jpg
 

StormC

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My wife has pointed out to me how much Geno resembles Snufkin from Moomin and now I can't unsee it. I do wonder if it he influenced the character design, at least partially. Geno is often described as a "scarecrow doll" too so you never know.

View attachment 228598
Yeah, I've seen this brought up a lot. Moomin is super popular in Japan so it isn't unfeasible.

Sorry but if you want anyone other than my favourite character it's a Forced Diversity pick by the PC police.

Can't believe this attitude is infecting Smashboards.
Haven't you heard? Having more characters that reflect half of the world population is "checking boxes."
 

xpnc

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Sorry but if you want anyone other than my favourite character it's a Forced Diversity pick by the PC police.

Can't believe this attitude is infecting Smashboards.
It's really a good thing to completely misrepresent what someone says in order to prove a point. Really great idea.

The only thing I disagree with is coming up with criteria for what characters you want before deciding the character the want. If you have it in your head that you want a female character rather than wanting someone specific like Ashley or Impa you literally are trying to mentally tick off checkboxes. It seems completely absurd to talk about the lack of female characters in Smash (something I completely disagree with by the way) while in the Geno support thread. As far as we know, there are two DLC characters left. Publicly announcing something that is tantamount to saying "I don't care who one of them is as long as it isn't Geno" seems like the sort of mindset that really doesn't belong in this thread.

It's frustrating having very specific wants in this game for over a decade and seeing people say they don't care who's in so long as one of them is a woman. It's got nothing to do with creating a PC boogeyman or whatever you're snidely trying to pass off in your post here. But **** people in the Geno thread for wanting Geno first and foremost, right?
 

MissingGlitch

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Yeah if this is the route the thread is taking I’m gonna step away. But before I go. You can want Geno and a female character. Just because you want Geno doesn’t mean you aren’t allowed to want other characters. People have top 5,10,15 lists for a reason.
 
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YsDisciple

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A while back I joked that the generic dragon and generic witch shown in the stage builder segment of the direct referenced Dragon Quest and Banjo-Kazooie... and in the spirit of that potentially being a real foreshadow I want to throw my 100% support behind another crazy theory mentioned here, in which Geno is bonus DLC.

Premise:
"The Legend of the Seven DLCs"
- Geno is a bonus 7th DLC fighter

Background:
- Color theory suggests that Orange, Blue, and Indigo are missing.

- In SMRPG, The Seven Stars are also the colors of the rainbow.

- Geno is of course lightish blue, but Indigo / Navyish blue and Orange can very well be represented by some likely and suggested characters.

- For Example, Ryu Hayabusa and Jill Valentine both have classic designs that heavily feature Indigo or Navy / Blue. Doom Marine and Heihachi likewise feature orange either in some their official art or in the logos of their games (Tekken has Orange symbols and Doom's artwork is always generally saturated in orange backgrounds).

- Jill and Heihachi also fit "Mii Costume Theory" in which Mii Costumes for Capcom and Namco will be released with new DLC fighters.

- Other Indigo characters also include Phoenix Wright (dark blue suit) and Lloyd (dark blue pants). Similarly, Crash Bandicoot could be the orange rep.

- As for smashdown, 76 characters become 71 once mii fighters are removed and PT is considered 1 character. Once you add the random button that becomes 72 tiles on the smashdown screen.

This is of course just a joke, but it's totally possible. I definitely wouldn't expect this to be the case at all, but Geno could be a special surprise from Sakurai at the end! :)

Who better to end the Ultimate DLC cycle in a game heavily defined by fan service? K. Rool, Ridley, and Banjo-Kazooie are in and Geno just might be too!
Seeing the characters that have been revealed (included) so far in the Fighters Pass (FP), I too have come to think that somewhat similar to Piranha Plant, Geno might in fact be announced after all FP characters have been revealed (potentially shadow dropped right after revealing the 5th). What's drawn me to believe in this is that, the Spirits mode, as well as the World of Light (WoL) campaign, are both modes that resonate with Geno's concept (a star spirit that descends to the Mushroom Kingdom; possessing a wooden doll (or toy more specifically)). Throughout the WoL campaign the concept of possession is seen pretty much the entire time (countless Marios, Links, Foxes, etc.; all possessed by spirits of other characters or items). While on the topic of possession, if one were to think about it deeper; seeing numerous copies of the fighters would seem "illogical"; however this makes complete sense when we take into account the true lore of Super Smash Bros. (as stated by Mr. Sakurai himself in the 11.1.2018 SSBU Direct).


Each Super Smash Bros. game has been that; iconic video game characters, incarnated in toys/figures of their own who are pit against each other in combat. In Brawl's Subspace Emissary campaign, the concept slightly veered away from the concept of "toys", but in Ultimate it was brought back in full with WoL. Think of it in this way; WoL is as if the player picked their favorite toy (fighter) to battle against other toys that have been possessed by some great evil. As I write this now, I immediately remembered the scene in Super Mario RPG when you first enter the Rose Town Inn, and Gaz is playing with his Super Mario figures.


I know that trying to put these details together may seem reaching, however these very same details (along with Mr. Sakura at one point mentioning he wanted to add him to the roster) lead me to believe that Geno might be the last surprise.


Some other interesting bits that further lead me to believe is that; Geno's star in Super Mario RPG could be considered the 2nd star, as its where Mario and Mallow both officially meet Geno. The second star's color is green. The Spirits mode menu icon (and mode UI) is also green. Going back to Piranha Plant; its reveal began using the remixed theme of Super Mario Bros. 3's Bowser theme, which back then after Plant's reveal, speculation around that very theme lead to believe that it may have been hinting at Geno coming along later. It's just so many details (some may seem reaching, I know) but still, so many coincidences just left me thinking. Again, we'll just have to wait and see. :ohwell:
 

KCCHIEFS27

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Not definitively but, kind of like I talked about earlier in the thread, there are characters that people stop caring about if they don't get in. Krystal's a prime example of a character that had a huge fall off and I kind of feel like that affects how they appear in future games. Like the K. Rool and Banjo fanbases, the Geno fanbase is exceptional in that regard but I don't know how long it will hold out. Everyone's getting older and the people who actually grew up with SMRPG will be close to 40 by the time a hypothetical Smash 6 comes out.
Yeah I do agree with this. The OG guard is just getting older, but at least we have a lot more going for us nowadays that will keep me holding out for his inclusion. There were a lot of (fan created) rules back when Brawl was being made and a lot of fuss was made about Sakurai's Journal, and once they started announcing Smash 4 newcomers it seemed like the wild west with who he was choosing, so it was hard to keep too much hope. But goddamn with everything that Sakurai has said and all the weird references ever since the Geno mii costume, it's been a wild ride. It also helps that Geno is universally agreed to be the last legacy never-ever left. We are literally all that's left to be added at this point from the pool of characters who have been wanted since basically melee. That's going to keep me coming back forever.

I really think it's only a matter of time before they add him to not just Smash in general, but specifically Ultimate.

Well, some popular female characters I could still see getting in, albeit chances my vary:
-Tifa (buffed as much as possible ;) )
I do find it funny that xpnc xpnc is being classified as a bigot right now but posts like these are a-okay because he's clearly just joking right?!
 
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xpnc

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Yeah if this is the route the thread is taking I’m gonna step away. But before I go. You can want Geno and a female character. Just because you want Geno doesn’t mean you aren’t allowed to want other characters. People have top 5,10,15 lists for a reason.
If you have a top five list and Geno isn't at the top of it then you don't belong in the Geno thread. If you have a top five list and one of the spots is reserved for a non-specific female character, you care more about a character being female than you do anything else about the character, and that's pretty skeevy as far as I'm concerned
 

StormC

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If you have a top five list and Geno isn't at the top of it then you don't belong in the Geno thread. If you have a top five list and one of the spots is reserved for a non-specific female character, you care more about a character being female than you do anything else about the character, and that's pretty skeevy as far as I'm concerned
I don't know how to tell you this but you are literally telling a woman how to feel about women in a video game.

Also

If you have a top five list and Geno isn't at the top of it then you don't belong in the Geno thread.
Dawg, what. Are you okay?
 

ShotoStar 2

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Yeah let's pull a mod and "Cease this conversation. Now." It's incredibly stupid and pointless you don't need to tell someone else how they should feel about a character's gender let alone a character, If someone wants a Female character then good we should get more female characters like Shantae and Dixie but don't be a jerk just cause someone wants a female character.

As I said let's cease this conversation.
 
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xpnc

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I don't know how to tell you this but you are literally telling a woman how to feel about women in a video game.

Also


Dawg, what. Are you okay?
I guess I better back up because a woman is here and that makes everything I have to say completely invalid. Please ma'am forgive me for daring to speak out of turn

I will stand by what I said. If you don't want Geno the most, why are you even posting here?


Yeah let's pull a mod and "Cease this conversation. Now." It's incredibly stupid and pointless you don't need to tell someone else how they should feel about a character's gender let alone a character, If someone wants a Female character then good we should get more female characters like Shantae and Dixie but don't be a jerk just cause someone wants a female character.

As I said let's cease this conversation.
Like I said it doesn't bother me at all if you want a female character. My most wanted this entire cycle was Ashley right up until her deconfirmation. Your entire top 10 list can be female characters and that is 100% within your right. My issue is people who don't have a specific female character in mind but just want a new female character for the sake of having one.

I've said all I can say on the matter.
 
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Firox

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I do find it funny that xpnc xpnc xpnc xpnc is being classified as a bigot right now but posts like these are a-okay because he's clearly just joking right?!
First of all, you need to double-check your PC buzzword dictionary. Bigot means "a person who is intolerant of those holding different opinions". I don't see how appreciating a strong female character has anything to do with being intolerant of someone else's beliefs.

Second, you could always, you know, grow a sense of humor. I know it's a dying art, but let's keep the spirit alive, shall we?
 

KCCHIEFS27

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First of all, you need to double-check your PC buzzword dictionary. Bigot means "a person who is intolerant of those holding different opinions". I don't see how appreciating a strong female character has anything to do with being intolerant of someone else's beliefs.

Second, you could always, you know, grow a sense of humor. I know it's a dying art, but let's keep the spirit alive, shall we?
I’m sorry, my sense of humor isn’t developed enough where I can laugh at wanting a character in the game as long as she has big ****!
 

Megadoomer

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If you have a top five list and Geno isn't at the top of it then you don't belong in the Geno thread.
That doesn't make a lot of sense, and reeks of gatekeeping. People can support Geno or want to see him in Smash without having him as their most wanted character overall.

Besides, it's not like supporting Geno and wanting to see a Fighter's Pass that isn't 100% male characters are mutually exclusive. (there's Kazooie, but she's not the main focus of that character)
 

Firox

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I’m sorry, my sense of humor isn’t developed enough where I can laugh at wanting a character in the game as long as she has big ****!
W-w-what?! Get your mind out of the gutter, pal. I just didn't want her getting nerfed into the ground like Bayo did. And even if was as you claim, whoever said it was ONLY for that reason? Do yourself a favor and try not to take everything so personally. You'll be a lot happier and maybe even get that humor developed.
 
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xpnc

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Besides, it's not like supporting Geno and wanting to see a Fighter's Pass that isn't 100% male characters are mutually exclusive. (there's Kazooie, but she's not the main focus of that character)
I guess that really all depends on the next character we see. It very well could be mutually exclusive. If there's only one character left, will people be allowed to come in here and say they want someone who isn't Geno? Doesn't that seem completely antithetical to the purpose of the thread, kind of like if I went to every other character request thread and demanded Geno over who the thread was about?
 

OptimisticStrifer

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Shantae would be my ideal female rep but she seems beyond the threshold of possibility tbh. I suppose Jill Valentine would be neat, although I think a RE rep would have multiple skins of other protags so it would kind of dampen her inclusion on the roster just a little bit.
 

Megadoomer

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I guess that really all depends on the next character we see. It very well could be mutually exclusive. If there's only one character left, will people be allowed to come in here and say they want someone who isn't Geno? Doesn't that seem completely antithetical to the purpose of the thread, kind of like if I went to every other character request thread and demanded Geno over who the thread was about?
What you're describing would be off-topic spam, but this all started by discussing supposed leaks (personally, I don't believe either of the ones being discussed, given the lack of evidence and noteworthy sources), which impacts Smash speculation as a whole.
 

xpnc

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What you're describing would be off-topic spam, but this all started by discussing supposed leaks (personally, I don't believe either of the ones being discussed, given the lack of evidence and noteworthy sources), which impacts Smash speculation as a whole.
So going forward I can expect people who come into this thread to tell us their most wanted characters are Crash Bandicoot and Ninten will get warnings, yes?
 
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Dynamic Worlok

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I really couldn't care less if the fighters pass was all female characters or no female characters, as long as said characters are fan favorites. That's what I'm about.
 

N3ON

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If you can relate conversation about your most wanted (whoever it may be) to the topic at hand (which should be Geno), who cares. If the conversation isn't about Geno, there's no need to get a bee in your bonnet, you can either wait the few posts it'll take for the topic to shift back to him, or you can shift the conversation back there yourself.

There are some mountains being made out of molehills here.
 

Ovaltine

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I'm a woman and I think this entire conversation is an incredible waste of time.

Also, Banjo was my top most wanted with Geno being second, but that doesn't make me less of a valid Geno fan. Come on. No need to be so elitist about what it takes to be a 'Geno fan'. We already got slotted into criteria based on our fan base, so let's not do that to our fellow Geno lovers, eh? Ain't cool.

(That said if you don't think he is an adorable button you are officially not a proper Geno fan
/s)

Also, in terms of the Geno = Snufkin talk, well... uh...


Yeah it ain't unfamiliar to me.
 
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GoodGrief741

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If you have a top five list and Geno isn't at the top of it then you don't belong in the Geno thread.
Ah crap I've been found out! Sorry guys, guess I'm being deported to my most wanted's thread.

I don't wanna go, the Prince Sable thread is super lonely...
 

ZelDan

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Goddamn all I said is that seeing more ladies in Smash would be cool. I never said that all newcomers had to be female or that people couldn't want different characters.

People can want multiple different types of characters...

EDIT: Some of my most wanteds are male. Isaac, Master Chief, Sans. Oh yeah, and Geno is another character I'd like to see. Maybe not top 5 necessarily but-*immediately gets deported out of thread by speculation police*
 
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MissingGlitch

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Did that Snufkin character actually say that somewhere? Seeing that phrase out of context greatly confuses me.
Who needs context when you can be gay and do crimes.

It all seriousness I don't know. But it's a great phrase regardless.
 

RSF-Blue bomber

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man i can care less for this annoying conversation can we talk about GENO and his chances again please?
 
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Fatmanonice

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Did that Snufkin character actually say that somewhere? Seeing that phrase out of context greatly confuses me.
No but:

1. Snufkin is kind of characterized as an anarchist, often ignoring and blowing off authority figures, and even going as far as expressing disdain for things like the concept of private property.

2. Moomin was created by a lesbian who was pretty much out her entire adult life, even owning a private island with her partner.

3. Fans ship him and the main character, Moomin, together a lot but there's never really been any implied romantic relationship between the two.

All these together basically created the meme.
 

Firox

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No but:

1. Snufkin is kind of characterized as an anarchist, often ignoring and blowing off authority figures, and even going as far as expressing disdain for things like the concept of private property.

2. Moomin was created by a lesbian who was pretty much out her entire adult life, even owning a private island with her partner.

3. Fans ship him and the main character, Moomin, together a lot but there's never really been any implied romantic relationship between the two.

All these together basically created the meme.
Gotcha! Thanks for the explanation!
 

EricTheGamerman

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I really couldn't care less if the fighters pass was all female characters or no female characters, as long as said characters are fan favorites. That's what I'm about.
I mean there's plenty of room for non fan favorites in the Fighter's Pass too. Crash Bandicoot wasn't/isn't exactly a fan favorite, but you'd be hard pressed to find people who would be disappointed at his inclusion on most areas of the internet. He's certainly done better than before in terms of fan popularity, but the point stands that the conventional "fan favorite" moniker is very limited and at this point, most of them are out of the running anyway (if third party is all were getting, which I suspect is the case, then there's what... Geno and Sora... and that's it for third party "fan favorites"... maybe Lloyd Irving for his Brawl era popularity). It's better if we just say we want interesting and cool characters rather than one specific sub-type of character inclusion since that's just a bit too limited.

Also, as a side note, you can roughly separate the characters into four categories (that are not mutually exclusive in the least bit): Sakurai picks, Fan Requests, Legacy picks/third parties, and recent all-stars/new game picks. Joker acts as a Sakurai pick, Banjo Kazooie operates as the fan request, and Dragon Quest operates under the legacy pick AND the new game pick. The DLC has been actually quite balanced with a pick from seemingly each category so far haha.


I have to say one small piece on the earlier conversations and I'll leave it at that. I've had female friends of mine talk about how much representation matters for them. Like the big female team-up scene in Endgame nearly reduced one of my friends to tears just because she got to see something she didn't traditionally grow up seeing on the big screen. The base line of representation can mean a lot to some people, so let's not be ****ty and discredit people who say they want to see a particular type of character in game, especially when it's potentially born of a very personal and real feelings that go well beyond a damn video game.

(I realize I've been harsh on people about being anti-Swordsman and I would like to take a moment to maybe contextualize. I don't like exclusionary practices period. I think it's absolutely fine to say, "I want more cartoon-ish, animal-like, etc. characters in the game." I just don't think that should come with the anti-swordsman rhetoric that it can sometimes come with and I try to focus on that part of an argument. If I've seemed more hostile than intended in those moments or less inclusive than I should have been, I genuinely apologize for any issues I may have caused in that area).
 

ForsakenM

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Sorry but if you want anyone other than my favourite character it's a Forced Diversity pick by the PC police.

Can't believe this attitude is infecting Smashboards.
Gonna be on the unpopular opinion fence on this one, but frankly diversity in gaming only makes sense depending on the creative design of the game.

For example, people are demanding that Kefla or Caulifla and Kale get into FighterZ before more-demanded veterans like Master Roshi, Jenemba and Kid Goku. Hell, half the demand for Videl was because she had boobs, not because she's a badass normal. Forget that she's a badass who learned to fly and was trained by Gohan and the mother of Pan, she is XX chromosome so GET HER IN THE GAME! Forget that most of Dragon Ball is dudes duking it out, we want wamenz because diversity! Or, you know, you COULD just put in the characters people who really care about the game really want.

Is it our fault that most of the characters we want aren't female, black, Native American or part of any other minority? No, it's not: we want what characters we want because they are cool and we love them. Maybe companies should start making cooler characters that fall naturally into a minority group instead of slapping it on whoever they feel like because labels sell.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On a less controversial not, I am starting my Blind Play-through of FF7 at 4PM CST, so in less than 30 mins. If you wanna join I'll be on Twitch at https://www.twitch.tv/forsakenm and if you like me enough on stream you can find my times consistently on https://twitter.com/ForsakenM45 . Hope to see some of my homebois there!
 
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