General ICs Q&A Thread

[r3d d09]

<_< i think they can avoid grabs really well, ness moreso than lucas. but still, lucas has stuff to fight grabs really well too

and this is why they're dirt. xD
I was at a smashfest yesterday and i was playing a ness, and he'd spam pk fire on the ground.
I don't think he realized. i'd run in to it a few times to make him think that i'm actually playing mind games.
So after taking some damage, he'd later try and do it again. simply just shield and run in for your grab. there is enough end lag to get a grab on him after the pk fire.
What a lot of people don't realize is taking damage is yes, of course bad, but you can also trick them.
yeah, the 30 damage or so i got was definitely worth taking one of his stocks.

make sense?

 

[dustman]

Hobbling, does it work?
Usually do it on heavyweights because it is much easier than some alternate grab combination, but is it escapable? (i mean when it time it correctly of course). I am not sure if i have to learn alternate grab timing for heavies or I can just rely on hobbling. Thanks.

 

[r3d d09]

hobbling some characters works. I hobble on Snake and ROB.


EDIT: I'm currently having troubles with my buffered Bthrow.

SO i get it to popo, then to nana then to popo again, but when i throw it to nana the 2nd time. she just rolls.
is this because I'm not holding the grab/shield button long enough?

 

[True Romance]

Gah this is so annoying for me, and I've looked at everything, searched etc but haven't found an exact answer so sorry if this has already been sorted some where else but I honestly tried to look

I've recently picked up Icies as a 2nd and I've got alt forwards and alt f-throw to d-throw down pat but for the life of me can't do much more then 2 alt b-throws.

I've tried different timings inputs etc and I've tried looking for exact inputs but didn't find anything definitive. I know you have to regrab REALLY quickly after the b-throw, but the main thing I'm completely unsure of is when trying to regrab after a b-throw, do you tilt the stick similar to how you would for the forward chain, or do you just smash it and regrab really quickly after wards. I've seen different Icy mains recommend both methods so I'm really confused....

My desire to do the b-throw to d-throw chain is at a all time high, and yet I'm still crap

Please help!

 

[Jupz]

Bthrow Dthrow works best on lightweights. Practice on MK as he is probably the most important. Basically flick the control stick backwards then hold that direction and almost immediately press grab.

 

[True Romance]

Jupz you're like my Smash fairy god mother or some ****, been following me from board to board fixing all my problems Thanks bro the part that I wasn't doing at all was holding the input on the control stick, which aggravatingly I didn't see specified any where else >.<

Sadly I now think I might not be able to make our next tourney so we might not get our rematch

 

[Jupz]

Haha lol you just happen to use similar characters to me so I check the boards to find you posted

Yeah sucks you might not be able to come, I posted in the perth smash thread.

 

[EverAlert]

Hobbling, does it work?
Usually do it on heavyweights because it is much easier than some alternate grab combination, but is it escapable? (i mean when it time it correctly of course). I am not sure if i have to learn alternate grab timing for heavies or I can just rely on hobbling. Thanks.

It's escapable with SDI except against a wall/walkoff. Even then it's possible to make it very hard for you by SDIing through you, and throwing off the direction.

 

[r3d d09]

spoken from the man that is going to be in the researching group this month :D

I see it happening

 

[EverAlert]

Haha mad love, mad faith. <3

Here's hoping. :3

 

[swordgard]

It's escapable with SDI except against a wall/walkoff. Even then it's possible to make it very hard for you by SDIing through you, and throwing off the direction.

With QCDI its still very very doable even when your body blocks it >.<.


Getting 2 SDI's in is enough to make you go back a little bit, 3 is decently high. 4 is O.o

 

[EverAlert]

Well the point is that they can force it to end by moving off a platform (using SDI to move there), hence implying it's infinite against a wall or on walkoffs. Naturally either of these conditions has to be present on both sides of the Climbers because you can SDI through them to reverse it.

Edit: Do you mean by SDIing up? I didn't think that worked.

 

[swordgard]

Well the point is that they can force it to end by moving off a platform (using SDI to move there), hence implying it's infinite against a wall or on walkoffs. Naturally either of these conditions has to be present on both sides of the Climbers because you can SDI through them to reverse it.

Edit: Do you mean by SDIing up? I didn't think that worked.

QCDI is a way to get more inputs in a small amount of time to SDI alot, i was saying that you can basically SDI through someone easily with it to get off. Im pretty sure you could also away from the wall up to where the ice climbers and get past them, its never truly an infinite (except if your circled by 2 walls, then ics can regrab and restart and no matter where youl go youl be screwed)

 

[r3d d09]

I wish i knew a lot more about DI than i do

 

[EverAlert]

I knew what QCDI was, but I wasn't sure how you were implying it helped.

If I understand correctly, you're saying (essentially) the same thing I was; hobbling is always escapable because you can SDI through Ice Climbers, unless there are walls/walkoffs on both sides ("circling" them). QCDI just makes getting through that much easier. Correct me if I'm wrong. :3

I wonder if it's possible to SDI (any kind) straight up enough to actually get out of tumble before hitting the ground again? Edit: Apparently you can't SDI the ice block up at all; at least not with the Control Stick, anyway (CStick doesn't work with the frame data code so I can't test it).

 

[Tuss]

What does it mean to "Buffer" a throw? How do you do this? I was searching through part of the boards and it said "Buffered forward throw". Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

 

[EverAlert]

Buffering is inputting any action while in the middle of another action; the move inputted will be added to a queue and executed at the first opportunity.

Buffering a throw in this case is simply inputting a throw after pressing the grab button but before ICs have actually grabbed anyone. Similarly, Buffered FThrow is when you alternate buffering Grab and FThrow continuously.

Note that a move will be discarded from the buffer queue if not executed after 10 frames (1/6th of a second).

 

[penguin_and_panda]

I need help with a main. I've been playing for a few months and STILL haven't been able to stick. I would like to stay with 1 character but maybe 2 if the first has a particularly bad match-up. I like grabs.... That narrows my choice to Ice Climbers and King Dedede. Dedede is higher on the tier list (6th) and Ice Climbers are 12th I think.... Climbers have a better grab game and I prefer lighter characters with quick killable smashes rather than slow super strong ones.

P.S. I don't mind learning ATs

P.S.2 I use the Classic Controller...

 

[lain]

What? Hobbling always works. What are you guys talking about. They can't sdi the ice block in any way to get far enough from you to regrab o_O

 

[swordgard]

What? Hobbling always works. What are you guys talking about. They can't sdi the ice block in any way to get far enough from you to regrab o_O

No, they SDI until they get at the ledge. Thats why its unviable over time, or on a platform. They can always SDI to the ledge in a way so that at some point they get off.

 

[Smasher89]

P.S.2 I use the Classic Controller...

If you want to play ICs you won´t want the opponent to allways have a few frames advantage, due to wireless=lag, in that case its probably better to go with D3 since he has alot of priority or something, so can afford a few mistakes, something ICs cannot. ICs is a better character though...

 

[EverAlert]

penguin and panda - you may want to try pikachu or falco, who are light and fast with good grab games but less likely to be screwed over by wireless issues.

lain - falling off the edge ends a hobble, sdi gets you to the edge. what swordgard said etc.

 

[Sieguest]

there's an input delay on the Classic Controller for inputting actions? (oh wow...I've done pretty well if that's true)

 

[T3h Albino]

I thought if they were SDI'ing to the ledge you could just pivot grab them and start going the other way? 0-o

 

[EverAlert]

It doesn't matter because they can SDI through you anyway.

 

[da K.I.D.]

can you teleport nana to you via side b or up b while nana is in hitstun?

 

[EverAlert]

afaik not during hitstun, but you can cancel her launch momentum with those.

 

[lain]

You guys are ****ing crazy.

If I bthrow hobble someone, there's just no ****ing way they'll ever be able to escape. Sure they can sdi slowly to the edge of the stage (after like what 50 hobbles?), but I'm not just gonna keep doing it and not adjust my spacing.

what the **** what the ***

 

[swordgard]

You guys are ****ing crazy.

If I bthrow hobble someone, there's just no ****ing way they'll ever be able to escape. Sure they can sdi slowly to the edge of the stage (after like what 50 hobbles?), but I'm not just gonna keep doing it and not adjust my spacing.

what the **** what the ***

If you keep doing it, no matter how you space you will end up to the ledge.

And no, it takes as little as 5 hobbles to get to the edge from the middle of smashville if done well, usually more around 8-9. Not to mention how it gets worst everytime he gets hit due to normal DI influencing the general direction and them getting sent farther from the ice block.



Im surprised, this is the first time someone actually agrees with me that hobbling is escapable. E_alert, your awesome.

 

[Smoom77]

Secondaries, ;/. The best players that only 15 years old in my area are Razar (Snake) and Trela (Lucario). I'm gonna have to keep fighting them for a while if I stay active. ICs obviously suck against both of them. Just sorta looking at a character to learn so eventually I can beat them. I was considering Wario and D3. Which one should I try first?

Btw, MK is banned in Houston so I don't plan on maining him.

 

[Xeedoc]

After watching videos, I have noticed two main ways of approaching: SH Blizzard, SH squall business.
Are these the only two effective ways? I don't really have anyone to play against to try new things...

Though I just started thinking about picking up IC, I can't imagine what to think while desynched, I end up just SH blizzarding everwhere. Is it just me?

 

[EverAlert]

lain - no matter how you reposition, even on FD the opponent can escape taking less than 50%. lawl I actually tested it properly to make a point, there was this time awhile ago where everyone here was *****ing about hobbling. "wah wah wah l2escape" etc. xP

swordgard - love you too, man. :D

smoom - personally I'd say MK because he does well in our bad matchups and does really well on our worst stages, plus you can play him in a similar campy style to ICs. But if you don't want to/can't pick him up, then pick up Dedede, he covers the matchups better than MK anyway.

xeedoc - umm... iunno? depends on the matchup really, there are no set ways to approach imo.

 

[Xeedoc]

Makes sense... quick reply, I like it.

 

[penguin_and_panda]

Well I've learn't that there is wireless lag O.o But does it effect lag that much??
P.S. I do have a gamecube controller though... but I find the shape of buttons a bit awkward *lol* >.>

 

[Jupz]

there's an input delay on the Classic Controller for inputting actions? (oh wow...I've done pretty well if that's true)

Is this true?

 

[penguin_and_panda]

I've just started ICs so I don't know much but for the fthrow alterating chain grab, when you tilt forward does your partner move forward and you throw forward? (sorry is I've been asking a bit to many questions nowadays...)

 

[lain]

No, you can always keep them on with proper grabs, running grabs, pivot grabs, etc.

You can REPOSITION. Utilize the slide after you grab them.

 

[swordgard]

No, you can always keep them on with proper grabs, running grabs, pivot grabs, etc.

You can REPOSITION. Utilize the slide after you grab them.

Then your getting in two more things.


A) If i SDI kinda far behind you, you cant exactly pivot grab it.
B)If i SDI far towards the ledge which is in front of you, you have to do a running grab, which gets you even further.


The slide wont help you in most cases, and running can make you trip.
Not reliable as more than often you dont start in the middle of the stage but rather halfway near the ledge.


EDIT: Im thinking of doing a comparison between the amount of grabs it would take if you only SDI always away from ics(thus you will rarely get to the ledge), but which makes them have to run alot and could get them tripped, versus SDI always toward the same ledge. I wonder which is more productive.

 

[meepxzero]

They really dont slide that far even if they smash di unless if its luigi.... i always do 0-80% with alt grabs and hobble the rest of the percentages because dthrow has more stricter timing at higher percents.

Even if they slide a goood distances u should be prepared to walk toward them after u ice block them with popo. I could be wrong cuz ihavent played anyone who can smash di it far enough where i had to dash grab them.

 

[Prawn]

I has a question,

but who was phone?