General ICs Q&A Thread

[r3d d09]

wow, wouldn't that be considered stalling? avoiding contact?

 

[IxxI]

i got an idea...

im gonna steal this and camp the mess outta any ICs that fight me

Uhhhh-~

 

[r3d d09]

Since we are talking about best ways to CG certain weights. we should add this to the front of this thread. So people don't keep asking later on.
if no one does it... I will keep asking what is the best ways till it gets done

 

[IxxI]

This is how I do it.

Fox, Kirby, and Shiek: BThrow>BThrow
Lightweights: BThrow>DThrow
Middleweights: BThrow>FThrow
Heavy: DThrow>FThrow

 

[Firestormzero0]

I agree is IxxI. Thats exactly the way i do it. except with Snake i hobble to death.

 

[GwJ]

What's the timing for Bthrow compared to Fthrowing? I can only do it consistently on Bowser and I've yet to actual figure the timing out.

 

[IxxI]

BThrow is faster.

 

[sasook]

Hello, I just have a quick question. When the IC are at a standstill, Nana suffers 6 frames of delay when attempting to powershield. However, when dashing, both the IC can powershield at the same time.

Is this true or false? I'm curious, and have never known.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

.....if that IS true it's only because of Nana's traction and she moves INTO the hitbox with her shield instead of the attack missing all together. It's a semi-common Sonic move to run up to someone and hit the shield so you force a powershield to punish. I assume due to the slipperiness of the Icies they can produce a similar effect.

 

[r3d d09]

i believe terios hit the nail on the head.

 

[EverAlert]

What's the timing for Bthrow compared to Fthrowing? I can only do it consistently on Bowser and I've yet to actual figure the timing out.

FThrow and BThrow are completely separate beasts. FThrow's timing never changes for any character, while BThrow does, and is the fastest throw for all characters like IxxI said. In Bowser's case, though, BThrow is only faster by 2 frames.

See [thread=228027]this thread[/thread] for more specific info.

But yeah, the point is FThrow is a bad throw to compare speeds with since it's a static-speed throw.

Nana suffers 6 frames of delay

5 frames.

Just sayin'.

 

[Tin Man]

Is Hobbling any better or worse then trade offs?

 

[phi1ny3]

Lucario is hard :/.

lol you have like 3 procarios there in that lone star state, plus one of them's really flashy (Trela) so I guess you would know lolol.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

All of the west coast Lucarios vanished during the past year; I haven't played this match-up in at least seven months.

 

[★Malik★™]

like i only know..well no chain grabs. i think? but like is there any good ones? they are like warm up characters. i use them in the first match i do as soon as i get online. i read some where about the chain grabs, i tried to do them but it was a fail.

 

[theunabletable]

A few questions. Is there any tactical reason to go FThrow > BThrow > FThrow/rinse and repeat/BThrow > DThrow > Bthrow etc over FThrow CGs until they get to the ledge, BThrow/hobble > Fthrow again? I find myself a lot better at the FThrow CG so I tend to use that a lot (probably because the timing never changes), but, after watching some Lain matches and noticing he doesn't use his FThrow CGs as much as his BThrow CGs it seems (or maybe it's just the matches I'm watching), I'm wondering if I'm doing it wrong.

When momentum cancelling, do any of the ariels cancel momentum better than others (as in does DAir slow you down more than UAir)?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Hey guys, I'm going to pick up the ICs pretty soon and I wanted to know some data about their pivot grab ... like frame data and range increase and things like that.

Thanks in advance

 

[Prawn]

When momentum cancelling, do any of the ariels cancel momentum better than others (as in does DAir slow you down more than UAir)?

I use my UAir and its incredibly effective, I get SoPo to live up to 130-170 on many occasions

 

[L_Cancel]

Random question, but how does decay work for ICs? Do they "share" the same decay from moves? Or do Nana and Popo have move decay independent from one another?

 

[Hylian]

Random question, but how does decay work for ICs? Do they "share" the same decay from moves? Or do Nana and Popo have move decay independent from one another?

I'm pretty sure nanas moves don't decay or add to popos decay, but popos moves add to nanas decay.

Or at least their throws.

 

[r3d d09]

So. i believe my CG'ing skills are getting worse >.>
If i don't improve over the next few days, I wont be able to play them in the tourney

 

[Zero Hour]

Is there somewhere that I can find a list of all the CG combos and who they work best/easiest on. I've pretty much mastered each CG and can combo Bthrow to Dthrow consistently, but i never know when to use which throw.

 

[Death Arcana]

its not in faq so but can you brake down the alternating back for me input by input because when i get the first one down i cant do the other because nana is desynched or something

 

[EverAlert]

deathbysuarez - For BThrow BThrow I normally smack the stick and regrab for Popo > Nana, then softly slide the control stick (same motion as it is for most chaingrabs) for Nana > Popo and time Popo's grab with the controller rumble (opponent should be over Nana's shoulder in the middle of the throwing animation if you need a visual cue).



Zero Hour - there is no "easiest" or "best" chaingrab for anyone. It just depends on personal preference. But some general rules: BThrow hobbling is great for heavies (except Bowser, it won't work on him), FThrow hobble works well for lightweights. FThrow chain is good in general because the timing never changes (you can have trouble with spacing with this though). Never BThrow Jiggs, there is like a 1-frame window where you won't make Nana roll by accident but also won't miss. Make sure you learn FThrow and BThrow for everyone, knowing those will give you the tools to chaingrab in any situation, even on platforms.

Ease is subjective. Personally I find lightweights easy (BThrow DThrow), and I know many people also find lightweights easy, but there are also many people who find heavies easiest too. With time and practice you will eventually find what is easy and good for you.

 

[Sieguest]

its not in faq so but can you brake down the alternating back for me input by input because when i get the first one down i cant do the other because nana is desynched or something

so bthrow to bthrow?
wouldn't really recommend it, but here it is...

grab=>tilt the control stick back so that nana turns around,=>regrab-you press the grab button again right after you tilt the control stick back

when throwing back to popo, I regrab just after the first whoosh you hear in the bthrow

Is there somewhere that I can find a list of all the CG combos and who they work best/easiest on. I've pretty much mastered each CG and can combo Bthrow to Dthrow consistently, but i never know when to use which throw.

I can't really tell you which CGs work better on who, it basically just takes practice doing the CG you feel most comfortable with.

But on heavies(excluding Bowser) I always prefer to hobble them, because it's simpler IMO

 

[EverAlert]

...wobble?

 

[Sieguest]

...wobble?

off by a letter....<.< darn....
*goes to fix*

this is what happens when you type in a dark room...

 

[momochuu]

e_alert, FThrow timing does change. Almost as much as the other grabs actually. Compare FThrowing MK to FThrowing say...Kirby.

 

[r3d d09]

I thought that FThrow had the same timing, just a different grab box per character?

and I see that I'm the only one alive that can't get down CG's and I main the trouble duo xD

Go me xD

 

[Snipa4800]

Guys , does the Gentlemens rule only apply to standing infinites or all infinites in general?
Ive been told both and I need the correct answer...

 

[EverAlert]

e_alert, FThrow timing does change. Almost as much as the other grabs actually. Compare FThrowing MK to FThrowing say...Kirby.

No, it doesn't.

Hitbox, Duration and IASA are the same for every character (24, 54 and 50, respectively). I did the frame data for throws myself, remember?

Every throw, every character. FThrow and UThrow are the same, BThrow and DThrow change variably. I remember it clearly because it actually explained a few things about my playstyle and answered some questions, in particular why I couldn't figure out the FThrow timing for anyone other than Marth. This is also why you can buffer FThrow most characters continuously.

Without meaning to be rude, I invite you to grab the frame data code and test it for yourself if you want.

In any case, MK and Kirby are almost identical in weight/size/shape (0.899 v 0.904, a 0.005 difference, which is nothing), so they should feel the same even with a variable throw duration.

I thought that FThrow had the same timing, just a different grab box per character?

This is correct. Each character still "feels" different because their body shape/size allow for less or more leeway in terms of regrab spacing.

 

[dageblet]

how do you actually do the f throw cg

 

[r3d d09]

Guys , does the Gentlemens rule only apply to standing infinites or all infinites in general?
Ive been told both and I need the correct answer...

What Gentlemens rule?

 

[Bnzaaa]

What Gentlemens rule?

Gentlemen's Rule is when infinites are allowed/legal and both players agree that the infinite can't be performed during the set.

I know in Melee this was used mostly because Wobbling was so heavily debated, but in Brawl it's widely accepted that the Ice Climber's infinite chaingrab is legal. So if the opponent suggests it I guess you could accept, but you'd be very limited so I don't know.

 

[r3d d09]

Lame, we practice multiple hours on this stuff xD. i guess you can just start getting fancy and stuff to get by the Gentlemen's club

 

[choknater]

lol yeah, i wouldnt accept some dum **** like that

just let me cg you

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

So... what's the exact ruling on Gentlemans rule? lol. Can I Fthrow CG to spike? What if I footstool jump to ice block lock?

 

[r3d d09]

Agree to the Gentleman's rule. but do it anyways. and when they say " wtf, what about the Gentleman's rule" interrupt them and say" No Johns"

 

[DeadX]

how exactly do you desync at the beginning of the match? i can't seem to get it.

 

[Hylian]

how exactly do you desync at the beginning of the match? i can't seem to get it.

Hold the a button down. Usually just B.