Social General Ice Climber Chat

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

you did 3 periods I did 4 PEEF.

But is it so bad it would be alright to switch to pichu? Because people have scared me away from trying that for a long time I won't even go vs a noob(or nub if you prefer that spelling).

The main pluses as pichu would be better at baiting, faster, cleaner air game won't be CCed, can live longer(due to better DI and recovery and nana problems), I can keep a mental focus easier than compared to ice climbers, and has no bad stages.

Of course ice climbers down-smash is better than pichu like if you could only use down-smash, move,shield, down-smash smash throw and recovery I think that's better than everyone in the low/bottom tier.

hey PEEF why do you play as the ice climbers? the bounce in their step, down=smash or they are really cool or what?

 

[Lixivium]

The real question is why you keep talking about playing as Pichu in other character-specific forums. Pichu is one of the few characters worse than IC's to use against Peach.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Thank you, sorry peach vs ice climbers freaks me out I was wanting to know if it was as bad as I keep thinking.

 

[cloudz]

this thread has made me decide to take ice climbers up again!!!!!! CLOUDZ COMBO ALL DAY!

 

[cloudz]

OK, dthrow dair with a shorthop is actually really hard. Ive been fullhopping nana, which explains alot of the jump-outs. I swear this short hop feels like it's harder than a normal shorthop outside of a grab...

Will be playing this character at VGBootcamp Indianapolis...

when doing this, you can get nana to short hop shorter then a regular short hop, have you tried the fulljump d-air reverse chaingrab?

 

[Binx]

the reverse chain grab only works on a select few characters, although occasionally you can do one instance of it to a smash attack vs semi floaties marth/peach ect.

Its best to learn as many of the grab mix ups as you can, I basically just do a different combo out of every grab now vs characters who we don't have solid chain throws on. Vs marth - dthrow fsmash WD to another fsmash, or I'll do reverse dair utilt bair, or dthrow upsmash up air, or fthrow dash attack uair (not reliable).

I still need to go back and learn the handoff and semi wobbling.

 

[PEEF!]

hey PEEF why do you play as the ice climbers? the bounce in their step, down=smash or they are really cool or what?

Its the bounce in their step ICG...

when doing this, you can get nana to short hop shorter then a regular short hop, have you tried the fulljump d-air reverse chaingrab?

Well...the way I understand it, when popo has someone grabbed, nana's jump heights are dramatically shortened, so her fulljump looks like a normal shorthop, and her shorthop is the shortest little fat-man jump.

semi wobbling.

Whats this?

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

semi wobbling is where you just wobble a little bit like 3 tilts(I think) and then go to chain throw to avoid wobbling rules I think. No joke it's the bounce in their step?

If so I need to show you something at the tournament I won't as of now because well yeah.

 

[PEEF!]

I was just thinking about how terrible anti-wobbling rules are...I'm sure you guys discuss this amongst yourselves, but I thought I would share my reasoning.

1: Ice Climbers are not the best character in the game when wobbling is banned. They have a few terrible matchups that keep them somewhat inviable in big tournaments.

2: Ice Climbers are not the best character in the game when wobbling is allowed. They have a few bad matchups (perhaps moved from 7-3 to 6-4) when wobbling is allowed. This makes the Ice Climbers somewhat more viable as a character in big tournaments.

3: If the Ice Climbers without wobbling are a 7.9 on the tier list (guessing) and wobbling brings them to...8.4 (supposing), how is this bannable? If the Ice Climbers went from 7.9 to 10 aka best character in the game, it would completely make sense, but wobbling, even when allowed, does not break the game! It is the logical equivalent of banning the Ice Climber's wavedash. It makes the character better, but does not break the game.

4: It would make entirely more sense to ban Jigg's rest. Jiggs is winning every major tournament. Rest is auto death above 40, is somewhat situational but still somewhat easy to set up, and can win and lose matches more or less alone (sound familiar?!) Because Jiggs is the best character in the game right now, and all other characters would benefit, because we are in the business of banning moves we don't like, banning Rest only makes complete sense.

But I guess this is an old tired discussion for you guys...

 

[Turazrok]

I was just thinking about how terrible anti-wobbling rules are...I'm sure you guys discuss this amongst yourselves, but I thought I would share my reasoning.

1: Ice Climbers are not the best character in the game when wobbling is banned. They have a few terrible matchups that keep them somewhat inviable in big tournaments.

2: Ice Climbers are not the best character in the game when wobbling is allowed. They have a few bad matchups (perhaps moved from 7-3 to 6-4) when wobbling is allowed. This makes the Ice Climbers somewhat more viable as a character in big tournaments.

3: If the Ice Climbers without wobbling are a 7.9 on the tier list (guessing) and wobbling brings them to...8.4 (supposing), how is this bannable? If the Ice Climbers went from 7.9 to 10 aka best character in the game, it would completely make sense, but wobbling, even when allowed, does not break the game! It is the logical equivalent of banning the Ice Climber's wavedash. It makes the character better, but does not break the game.

4: It would make entirely more sense to ban Jigg's rest. Jiggs is winning every major tournament. Rest is auto death above 40, is somewhat situational but still somewhat easy to set up, and can win and lose matches more or less alone (sound familiar?!) Because Jiggs is the best character in the game right now, and all other characters would benefit, because we are in the business of banning moves we don't like, banning Rest only makes complete sense.

But I guess this is an old tired discussion for you guys...

My area doesn't have wobbling banned because I'm the only IC player as of January and they all play peach/fox, plus I'm not landing grabs anyways lol, and I don't win any more with it or without it.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Yeah, I think wobbling being frequently banned is something that a lot of us are kind of bitter about. I've gotten used to it, although I still think it's odd. Every argument I've seen for wobbling being banned either has faulty reasoning or has ban criteria that I reject.

 

[PEEF!]

It is the case that it isn't fun to watch. That is the best argument IMO.

If wobbling took 2 seconds, I don't think anyone would mind.

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

Hey, fly, I saw your match against connor and while you played REALLY well, you picked some iffy spots to desynch. Desynching against fox for me involves quick agro ones that allow you to throw some pressure on him(pivot jabs are what I use a lot and ddblizzard) or ones that you just use to cover your tracks so he doesn't punish you(something you did very well with the solo squall ->smash kill in match one). In one of your matches I saw you randomly spotdodge, I believe trying to get a desynch out and you got punished hard. Doesn't work on a char like fox. Still, you are incredible. Easily one of the greatest ic players.

 

[Lixivium]

It is the case that it isn't fun to watch. That is the best argument IMO.

If wobbling took 2 seconds, I don't think anyone would mind.

It's not quite the same as Rest. Rest can be punished hard for missing (and sometimes hitting). Wobbling requires more setup but you don't get punished (much) for attempting it.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Rich Wheeler's post on Rest and faulty anti-wobbling arguments made me giggle.

 

[PEEF!]

Rich Wheeler's post on Rest and faulty anti-wobbling arguments made me giggle.

Giggle in what way?

PS: Call me PEEF.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

@Plur:

Most of the time I spot-dodge, I'm doing it to avoid something like usmash or grab and I tack on the desynch as an afterthought, but yeah, I really shouldn't do that as often as I do.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Giggle in what way?

PS: Call me PEEF.

It summarizes my feelings on why wobbling being banned is not... good.

I guess giggle with delight. Non-sexual delight.

 

[Binx]

LOL Wobbling doesn't seem to affect the performance of very many players, Chu and Wobbles both seem to place about the same with Wobbling banned or not, the difference is that with wobbling allowed you don't have to work as hard after you get the grab.

The players that beat Ice Climbers don't get grabbed at all anyways, cause the best Ice Climbers will kill them during it or do so much damage that in a lot of cases it might as well have killed them. This is oversimplified a little bit but I feel its pretty accurate.

 

[smakis]

i think the comparisment of rest and wobbling was quite excellent ^^

wobbling would help tremendously in our hardest matchups (imo peach and jiggs) since a grab on them is a pain to get without getting much out of it, and because of them being so floaty the only real chaingrab you can do to them is the handoff. Grabbing a peach or jiggs at the edge is even more unlikely. Can't really see what would be so bad to even a 2:8 matchup out a little.

 

[Wobbles]

Yeah, it's really nice having a safe secure and simple way to finish the floaties off a grab. Same with Luigi; grabbing a good one is stupidly hard, it sucks getting almost nothing out of it unless you're near the edge for a handoff.

Again though, if you're letting the ICs land sync'ed grabs on you four times a game, then you're doing it wrong.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

I was curious what Wobbles/Fly/and Chu (if he posted ever) thought the Icy vs Peach match up was.

Also the Samus/Marth/Jigs/Sheik match ups. If you had time.

I know that is serveral long answers in one.

 

[Rappster]

It is the case that it isn't fun to watch. That is the best argument IMO.

If wobbling took 2 seconds, I don't think anyone would mind.

perceptive man.
melee wants to grow.
to grow we need new ppl to be excited about the game.
to get excited re: ssbm, we have to show exciting stuff.
as technically demanding as wobbling is,
it's boring for someone new to ssbm to watch.

Rest isn't banned because ppl go flying places quickly. that's exciting.

 

[Kyu Puff]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS7eoAp5YFs

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

LOL who wants to ban rest? WTF? Some people can kill her from 25% on any stage if she misses.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Guys, I was fooling around with dthrow -> SH reverse dair on PEACH. It seems really easy to do.

How easily could she DI out of it??

 

[PEEF!]

I get to meet Insane Carzy Guy at a tourney this weekend.

I will report back on the badness/goodness of this mysterious figure.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Fascinating.

@PMIRL: I'll try to remember to write stuff about Marth/Jiggs/Samus tomorrow. You might need to berate me a little if I am going to get it done, but I don't have much else to do now, so chances are I can say a lot of things about those match-ups relatively soon. While I could say some things about Peach, I still feel like I'm really bad at the match-up and shouldn't be saying too much about it.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Hopefully ICG isn't as mad of a hatter in real life as he is on the boards.

 

[Binx]

How relevant is our matchup thread these days? I re-read some of it a few weeks back and it seems pretty good to me still but more opinions couldn't hurt.

 

[Lixivium]

I was curious what Wobbles/Fly/and Chu (if he posted ever) thought the Icy vs Peach match up was.

Also the Samus/Marth/Jigs/Sheik match ups. If you had time.

I know that is serveral long answers in one.

IC's vs. Peach is what it is: 30/70, maybe 35/65 if you wobble.

Samus 40/60
Marth 50/50
Jiggs 40/60
Sheik 65/35 FD, 55/45 everywhere else

 

[ChivalRuse]

Marth 60/40 in Marth's favor.
Jiggs 60/40 in her favor.
Sheik 55/45 Ice Climbers' favor.
Samus 55/45 Samus's favor.
Peach 70/30 Peach's favor.
Fox 55/45 Fox's favor.

 

[cloudz]

@Plur:

Most of the time I spot-dodge, I'm doing it to avoid something like usmash or grab and I tack on the desynch as an afterthought, but yeah, I really shouldn't do that as often as I do.

i remember an ice climber player who ice blocked with nana everytime he missed a grab, it proved to be more useful then not lol

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Hopefully ICG isn't as mad of a hatter in real life as he is on the boards.

I'm not an actor. No I think all morning people may just be crazy. gooooooodd morning.


hey can't nana CC or automatic sdi? Or does she have NO di forces what so ever?

 

[BC AL]

i ll be MMing THE Diakonos tmr...
um do u guys mind critiquing some vids of my matches against him?

 

[Charlesz]

i ll be MMing THE Diakonos tmr...
um do u guys mind critiquing some vids of my matches against him?

ill do it sure.

 

[Smasher89]

Played alot of friendlies against armadas fox on Corneria, one thing that can be quite mayor is that once below the fin (where shine is dangerous) I or Nana got a grab and Nana backthrowed, through the stage when close to the fin, so fox were below and had a hard time recover if even possible. We were unable to recreate it but it sure can prove useful if anyone has any idea that leads to it being easier to exploit=)

And shineinfinite against cornerias wall seems kinda escapable(since its tilted), anyone knows how it works?

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

i remember an ice climber player who ice blocked with nana everytime he missed a grab, it proved to be more useful then not lol

More people need to use desynch to cover their tracks.

 

[Vts]

got 3rd at a TN tournament videos will be up later so might need some advice of how the **** to beat ganon better and samus.

also anyone going to smym11? i'm going to attempt to rep ICs but don't believe i'll get far lol

 

[Smasher89]

Currently trying to break the game for puff so if I get outcamped once I´ll just camp them back with her sick edgecamping.
That is bad though because this might make puff harder to face, so how do we deal a edgecamping puff who goes for time and punishes with bair? :/ (think plankingstyle)