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Social General Ice Climber Chat

*P*L*U*R*

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
5,143
Location
Dance to express, not impress!
bwahahahaha the ol leap of faith wd sheild approach. too good. the trick with approaching with ics isn`t neccesarily sheilding and doing nothing else. ic doesn`t exactly have a solid approach. it`s all about our mixups. sometimes i wd in backwards and sheild for a bit, then bair oos. sometimes i wd just outside their range, dd blizzard and drag nana in. also wd dash attack is really fast and catches people offguard. also, believe it or not, sometimes wd ftilt is really good. at mid percents on some characters, it OTGs some characters, leading to tech-chases. at low percents, continue pressuring but be smart about it because ftilt doesn`t have a guaranteed followup as they can react after it. they usually will sheild or spotdodge afterwards though.
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
8,413
Location
College Park, MD
The problem is that if I start CCing Sheik's tilts, all she has to do is start dsmashing.

I find utilt and dsmash are pretty good. Utilt can lead to a grab or uairs. Dsmash I can tech chase into a grab or another dsmash. Fsmash can also outrange a lot of her attacks.

I need to incorporate more blizzard tricks into my game.
 

*P*L*U*R*

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
5,143
Location
Dance to express, not impress!
the thing about sheik`s shffl fair to tilt wall is that it is not very mobille. take wobble`s marth circle theory but apply it to sheik`s fair wall thing. instead of a circle though, imagine a column instead and stay outside of it. punish from there.
 

*P*L*U*R*

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
5,143
Location
Dance to express, not impress!
sheiks really only do that if they SEE that you`re feeling pressured(ie have your sheild up). i think you can just throw your sheild up close by and then wd oos the moment she leaves the ground underneath her. they`ll usually dj and try to escape from there so catch them out of their dj with a fjuair.
 

Lixivium

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
2,689
So I played ICees at a smashfest last night and it went...OKAY.

I choked major with grabs. I need to practice starting moves straight after the grab. My neutral game is badd though. I end up just doing WD>WD>WD>shield>hope for shieldgrab or some type of OoS opening. It sucks but knees overpower my life, and peaches...come the hell on that is horrible. I just get downsmashed times a million.

This character is harder than I originally thought.
Aside from what PLUR said,

WD -> jab -> grab or D-smash or reverse D-smash. Jab -> grab ***** people who shield too much. Watch out for crouch canceling though.
WD -> up-tilt
WD -> B-air/Up-air
WD -> D-smash (punishable)
 

Fly_Amanita

Master of Caribou
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,224
Location
Claremont, CA
The problem is that if I start CCing Sheik's tilts, all she has to do is start dsmashing.

I find utilt and dsmash are pretty good. Utilt can lead to a grab or uairs. Dsmash I can tech chase into a grab or another dsmash. Fsmash can also outrange a lot of her attacks.

I need to incorporate more blizzard tricks into my game.
I love Sheiks that dsmash since you can shield it and wavedash OoS -> grab her afterwards. Utilt is definitely really good against Sheik, but our dsmash is mediocre against her since she can evade it really easy. Yes, fsmash is good when used sparingly.

I agree with Chok that Sheik's jab can be more annoying than her ftilt, but it rarely leads to much unless you don't CC it.
 

smakis

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
747
on topic though, could anyone explain the jab > grab to me? is it supposed to link or something because against cpus (yea lol) i always get jabbed, is there something im missing like crouch canceling the jab?
 

BC AL

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
456
Location
Final Destination
umm when exactly do u use jab, crouch, jab,
i hear it can be used to apply shield pressure but i never see ice climber pros using it
 

Kyu Puff

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
2,258
Location
Massachusetts
There are a lot of vulnerable frames between the jab cancels, so you would need to rely more on tricking your opponent than on actually pressuring them. If you mix it up with well-timed double jabs you might be able to catch them out of their jump, and if they roll you can follow it. Typically though, you'd just want to grab after the jab (which isn't guaranteed either, but there's less room to mess up).

As far as shield pressure goes, the only thing that really works is sh b-air -> d-smash. It might have a few frames when they can buffer roll out (I wish magus or someone with AR could check this) but generally the d-smash shieldstabs or hits them out of their jump. Bouncing ice blocks can also keep someone in their shield.
 

PEEF!

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
5,201
My dthrow dairs are getting jumped out of almost every time by a link I play with.

That sucks, is there a way to tighten up dthrow dairs?
 

PEEF!

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
5,201
Fly, where do you find melee livestreams? I can't ever find them in time...there needs to be a thread dedicated to them.....someone should help me get that started.

Anyhow, lightshield edgehog with popo works vs marth. It's funny because the way i do it is roll to the ledge while holding z, so popo stands in lightshield while nana grabs over and over haha.
 

Smasher89

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Messages
1,936
Location
Sweden
Allisbrawl has a group for livestreams, which gives the link in a post during/before (not sure) an event which got one.
EDIT: http://allisbrawl.com/group.aspx?id=7738


Fly-Saw you play fox vs a peach in a losers final on DL64, not sure but I think the strategy in the start if abused, might be easier on Kongo jungle 64 =)
 

Fly_Amanita

Master of Caribou
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,224
Location
Claremont, CA
I found that livestream in the TP4 thread in PacWest, but somebody also made a thread for it in the tournament videos board. That's usually the best place to find livestreams.

@Smasher: Yeah, you're probably right. That was Pit's CP and I'm really bad at ICs vs. Peach on Dreamland, so I wanted to try that nonetheless. In winners, I actually did something similar with Sheik in a match that lasted over 7 minutes, but I ended up messing up near the end. Still, I'll probably try Sheik against Peach on Dreamland again should I get taken there.

The ultimate goal is to just use ICs against Peach regardless of the stage, but I'm not good enough at the match-up to do that yet.
 

PEEF!

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
5,201
Mannn are there any tricks to beating bad peaches? Other than handing off which I have down well enough to implement this is just so tough. Dsmash just ends me.

Plus, I am not sure what a good way to implement wd>utilt vs falcon is. It just never quite seems to work.
 

choknater

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
27,296
Location
Modesto, CA
NNID
choknater
you either wd utilt into them or predict an approach. if the falcon is just being patient and u randomly utilt ur gonna get knee'd. there are sometimes when u have momentum and just know that theyre in a position where theyre likely to approach, thats when u can catch them with utilt. i dont even think about 'implementing it' i just do it when i kno its right lol

just get a lot of experience :p

for bad peaches, just keep them above u

for good peaches change ur character
 

PEEF!

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
5,201
OK, dthrow dair with a shorthop is actually really hard. Ive been fullhopping nana, which explains alot of the jump-outs. I swear this short hop feels like it's harder than a normal shorthop outside of a grab...

Will be playing this character at VGBootcamp Indianapolis...
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

Banned via Warnings
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
6,915
Location
Indianapolis
Everyone has made me afraid of fighting peach as ice climbers so I when as pichu wasn't to bad I nearly won but yeah is it so bad I should try something else....(out did PEEF at ... I did .... i'm winning)
 

Binx

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
4,038
Location
Portland, Oregon
dthrow dair took some getting used to, its basically a fox short hop and during a grab you aren't used to having to do so many things at once, you will get it down though and it will become second nature, what sucks is when people start learning how to get out of it, it pwns people who don't have enough experience vs Ice Climbers.

VS Peach I like to platform camp and try to catch her pulling a turnip, to defeat peach you have to have to predict them a lot. First of all never just wavedash in vs a decent peach because they can slap you away with a double jab dsmash you, or just fair in place to block approaches. What you need to do is get in positions where you can catch her during aerials with fairs and nairs. Watch for when they like to dsmash and fair them, then you can immediately dsmash her or chase her roll/getup because the fair should spike her into the floor (the peach would be crouch canceling). If you do approach with a wavedash space it well and do it sparingly and up angled ftilt should beat most of her options and if you spaced it well she won't be able to hit you after she cc's it. If you stay close enough and predict when she is going to throw a turnip you can nair her, also I like to nair with the z button when she has a turnip at close range, if she throws it I have a good chance at catching it and hitting her. Peach is slow she can have trouble chasing your rolls, its a little safer to use them vs her that other characters and often times its better than light shielding because her attacks eat shields up so fast, ITS VERY IMPORTANT that you keep your shield healthy because she has a lot of moves that shield poke and pressure and attacks that separate our climbers.

Lastly peach has a lot of moves that aren't really punishable, IE any float canceled aerial, and her jab, there are a lot of times where a dash attack or dsmash look punishable but aren't, practice is key in this match, look for her openings and keep on the pressure, 99% of your kills are gonna come from grab upsmash, good peaches won't let you just hit them with random ones. You should counter pick levels with small sides and ceilings. I personally like Yoshi's because a grab there can lead to stocks early and it gives peach less room to turnip camp you in any form.
 
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