General Final Fantasy Discussion - Final Fantasy XII remake incoming!

[Sephiroths Masamune]

It's pretty good. You're paying for arguably the best Assist in the main game release (Aerith) and a legitimate teaser storyline instead of just playing for a bit and the demo going, "Thank you for playing!"

As well, for all the accomplishments you get, you can transfer it over to the main Dissidia 012 game when it gets released too.

I just wish I had aerial Octaslash so that after I use Cloud of Darkness' assist Sephiroth can follow up with an HP attack.

CoD assist > Hell's Gate. Hard to hit with at first, but if you aim it right your golden.

 

[Matt07]

FF2 has the most broken combat system of any game. You can just hit eachother and heal eachother endlessly and be broken as hell.

Hahah, I guess that's very true. During my first playthrough I never thought of doing that, and the game was very difficult. Other than that, I really enjoyed the plot, characters, and music. But people have different tastes so I can understand why they may dislike it .

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I don't play Dissidia (hopefully will when I eventually get a PSP)...

...but can someone tell me if Terra has been nerfed to high hell and back in Dissidia Duodecim?

 

[Kuraudo]

So it's worth the three bucks, I take it?

Yup. It's definitely worth the three bucks, especially since Dissidia 012 itself is only $30; $33 in total for the whole game that's bigger and better then the original WITH the first story intact, is a deal for me. You get a decent moveset for your characters being at LVL 50, and 30 battles in Arcade Mode is pretty cool.

@ Sephiroth,

Yeah, I had one team of Sephiroth w/ CoD do that to me too. I just thought they got lucky or something. If I can get the timing for that down, it'd be epic. A legitimate way of using that move...

[EDIT]

@ Rickerdy,

So far as I can tell, she's been re-balanced? I'd hafta wait until I get the main game to actually play as her. All I know? Is that Meltdown scares the hell out of me now. I was hiding behind a wall, getting ready to summon Meteor with Sephiroth, when all of a sudden her Meltdown fireball floats AROUND the wall, and hits me. The tracking on it is INSANE. Insane enough it knows when it'll just run into a wall and it'll fly around it to get to you.

If that's only the beginning of the cool stuff that Terra's gotten, then I'd say she hasn't been nerfed. XD

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Oh ok, it's just from what I've seen of her, Holy and Blizzara(?) have had their range nerfed massively - didn't they make up a big part of her game? Won't the Assist system mean that Ultima is also really unsafe since you can just Assist Change out of Ultima and then punish her?

Meltdown tracking and Firaga(?) seem to be buffs IIRC

Correct me if I'm wrong, I've never actually played the game, just watched videos lol

 

[finalark]

Yup. It's definitely worth the three bucks, especially since Dissidia 012 itself is only $30; $33 in total for the whole game that's bigger and better then the original WITH the first story intact, is a deal for me. You get a decent moveset for your characters being at LVL 50, and 30 battles in Arcade Mode is pretty cool.

EXCELLENT!

I'll be sure to download it once my PSP is done updating. Three bucks sounds like a fair price anyway.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

Wish I had psp for this.

After watching AC Complete, I wanna do some Omnislashes.

Does Cloud use his Buster Sword, or his Buster Sword of Deception in Dissidia?

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Wish I had psp for this.

After watching AC Complete, I wanna do some Omnislashes.

Does Cloud use his Buster Sword, or his Buster Sword of Deception in Dissidia?

His what?

He has 3 different outfits, (4 if you include the DLC kingdom hearts outfit.) 2 (FFVII soldier outfit, and Amano artwork.) out of the 3 he uses his buster sword and when he goes into EX mode he uses Ultima weapon. The 3rd is his AC outfit where he uses his fusion swords. He uses the base buster sword while out of EX mode. And in it he uses all the swords fused into one.

 

[finalark]

His what?

I think he's referring to his AC sword. The one that has a million little swords inside it.

 

[Kuraudo]

Technically KH!Cloud uses the same Buster Sword, just wrapped in bandages (always thought that was awesome as symbolism to being bound to his darkness), but when he goes into EX Mode, it turns into the Ultima Weapon.

Kind of a copout of an EX Mode and I woulda preferred if they just made it so he didn't have the wing out normally, and in EX Mode he got it. Oh well. Still my favorite one next to his AC one (even if that's overused lol).

I got something to pre-occupy my time as I fly in for WHOBO 3 at least. I come back the day of getting Dissidia 012 as well. Great Spring Break if you ask me. XD

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Turns out you just need to fight and beat Tifa in arcade, you don't have to beat her with Sephiroth. I did it with Lightning and unlocked Cloud.

 

[Kuraudo]

I know. XD But wait, just beat her in Arcade? Do you have to finish the rest of it though?

I only use Sephiroth right now because he's the one I know how to play best out of the available characters.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

I know. XD But wait, just beat her in Arcade? Do you have to finish the rest of it though?

I only use Sephiroth right now because he's the one I know how to play best out of the available characters.

I finished it, but I don't know if you have to though.

 

[Kuraudo]

I finished it, but I don't know if you have to though.

When did you find Tifa? XD I know it's random, but I'm just curious how long it took you to find and beat her.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

I didn't keep track, but I bet it was somewhere in the 20's

 

[Kuraudo]

Cloud: Is this what you had in mind?

He says so as he flat-out wrecks someone. Holy **** Cloud is awesome. LOL

Faster, builds assist like nobody's business, and if the rest of his lines have this much attitude, I approve that much more.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Try Omnislahs V5 or Finishing Touch, (actually any ground wall rush works) > ground assist > Omnislash V5

Best assist combo in the game. It's so easy to pull off and almost insta brave breaks too.

 

[Kuraudo]

Try Omnislahs V5 or Finishing Touch, (actually any ground wall rush works) > ground assist > Omnislash V5

Best assist combo in the game. It's so easy to pull off and almost insta brave breaks too.

Did this over and over again. I'm trying to get the timing for the ground assist > Aerial Meteorain down since I've seen it done before where the opponent gets hit by the rising meteors before getting wrecked.

It's ridiculous how fast Cloud gains Assist meter. I really like this ground dash mechanic too so I can go straight into my ground attacks if needed be. It's scary how Cross Slash zones in on an opponent if they try dodging back.

Cloud's the most satisfying character to play as. After him, Jecht once I mastered using his techniques. But Cloud... Yeah. No one will be as nice to use as him for me. Cloud vs. Lightning with Blinded by Light playing in the background gave me CHILLS. This is going to be an amazing game. I also downloaded Final Fantasy VII to my PSP so I can better pre-occupy my time even further while I'm travelling to Houston.

[EDIT]

Oh, also, EX Revenge Cloud is flat-out terrifying. Ever seen/know what he can do?

EX Revenge, Double Cut x3 -> Slashing Blow -> Omnislash V5

If you have an assist? Combo extended even FURTHER. Cloud looks so freaking awesome when he's fast. It looks so damn good. It kinda boggles me how some people are still thinking he's some low tier character. He's faster, and sure you can react to his attacks. But by the same token? You can react to anyone else's attacks just the same. It's all about how you as a player can respond and counter in most cases.

Mid tier material at the least, imo. By the same token, he could also be the easy button for beginners, but I took him beyond that "beginner" gameplay in Dissidia and I plan on doing the same for 012.

 

[finalark]

So I got Prologus.

KAIN IS A BOSS.

 

[Spire]

Man I don't even care about the competitive side. I just want to mash all the new and old characters together to see them fight. Actually, I want to work with that story designer mode a lot. It intrigues me.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

So I got Prologus.

KAIN IS A BOSS.

Kain + Cecil assist is pretty ****, especially with all the wall rushes he has. I just wish he was a little faster than he is.

Also, was I the only person to laugh when Lightning yelled "THUUUNNNDAGAAAAAA!"

 

[finalark]

So, FF Forum RPG is being pushed back a week because I want to play through XIII over spring break.

Yep.

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

Alright, just let us know when your ready.

 

[finalark]

I picked up FFXIII yesterday and got to the boss after the lake was turn to crystal (haven't played past that, spend tonight playing Catan with friends).

Honestly, I don't see what everyone's problem with this game is. It's basically FFX with a new battle system and an improved Sphere Grid. And you know what? I rather like it so far.

EDIT: Also, I really like the story so far. The dialog sounds like it was translated by someone who knows what they're doing. Plus the voice acting is actually pretty good, I like how (unlike most JRPGs) the english voice actors don't randomly pause in the middle of sentences.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

^ the story makes the game worthwhile. The lack of a "Sephiroth" sucks.

 

[finalark]

The lack of a "Sephiroth" sucks.

Elaborate, would you kindly?

 

[Gates]

I think he means that, in general, Square has been quite bad at making strong villains whose presence is felt through the whole story.

 

[Wrath`]

Ok Kefka was awesome and you felt him trought the whole game.

Also FFXII the empire was screwing everything up, sorry it had nothing to do with Gods and OP people.

 

[Gates]

Ok Kefka was awesome and you felt him trought the whole game.

Post-FFVII. Should have been more clear.

Also FFXII the empire was screwing everything up, sorry it had nothing to do with Gods and OP people.

Were they? The cities weren't visibly in ruin and I never saw soldiers abusing citizens or anything so I couldn't really tell that they had an effect. Maybe if I stopped trying to do something productive with my life and read the FFXII encyclopedia I would know that they had a huge effect, but then I wouldn't have time do sell hoes and do cocaine.

A game where the antagonist is clear is commonly used because overly complex plots can often confuse or bore the player and having a clear enemy or group of enemies can keep them focused on their goal. Say what you want about Mario games and their stories, in each game you are shown, not told, exactly what bad things happened to start the conflict and who is responsible (in fact the real problem with Mario games in my opinion isn't the way the story is structured but the fact that it's ALWAYS THE SAME). FFXII sort of has this in that you know that there is an evil empire, but their reasons for being so evil are explained in a boring text scroll instead of shown to us.

Now you may say that Star Wars Episode IV did the same thing, and they did, but the difference is that we are shown in the first 20 minutes, nay, even the first five minutes that the Empire is evil and that the rebels have the odds stacked against them. Lucas opens with a wide-angle shot of a tiny rebel cruiser, barely a speck on the horizon, being chased by a gargantuan Imperial Star Destroyer. Then it follows up with the rebel soldiers who look like everyday guys fighting against the faceless Stormtroopers. It's further compounded by Darth Vader's appearance - He enters into a smoke-filled room, easily taller than everyone else there, dressed completely in black, with a deep, sinister voice, barking orders at his soldiers and choking (physically no less, even though he could have easily used the force) a rebel soldier for information. Within the first scene of the movie we know that Vader and the Empire are bad. If this scene didn't cement that fact into the audience's minds, then surely the destruction of Owen and Beru's homestead did. FFXII has no such thing, aside from maybe the prologue where Reks dies, which isn't too big a deal since we know nothing about him and the people he was with. Then we skip ahead 3 years and we see Vaan as a hood rat and he's living in a city that is like totally spotless. More on that later.

Even if you don't reveal the main villain right away, you could at least have some sort of desolate ruined landscape for the player to think "whoa, what happened to this place to make it so ****ty?" and leave a breadcrumb trail leading up to the villains of the game. Resident Evil 4 is an example of this - You go to a dirty European village that looks like it's still in the 19th century and everyone tries to kill you and you have no idea why. The breadcrumb leads to, in order, the village chief, a church group, some Castellans, a mine for an extinct microorganism, a secret island base, some spies from previous games, and the religious cult leader himself who may or may not have a connection to Albert Wesker. Hell, using an example from another Square game, remember when they first went to 2300 AD in Chrono Trigger and they were like "omg wtf happened?"? That plot arc sparked the first mention of Lavos and started the quest to destroy him and save the future.

FFXII could have done this but didn't. They had an occupied city as the starting setting of the game, and it looked like it was in pristine condition. Have you ever seen WWII photos of occupied France, Poland, or China? They look terrible. Mass slaughters. Buildings destroyed and defaced. Dead bodies in the streets. Daily patrols from occupying armed forces. I know that they wanted this to be a T-rated game so they couldn't make every city into the **** of Nanking (and also since the Japanese were responsible for that most people in Square probably don't want to admit that happened for fear of outcry against them in their own country), but they could have at least had some of those aspects in - a crumbling building or two, signs of rebellions that were squashed, an underground that actually looked like a ****hole instead of just looking like the surface only with waterways and less light. Instead Square wanted to show off their graphics engine even though they knew that the PS2 was going out the door, so they made a huge city that looked beautiful but also looked like nothing happened in it. And then they did the same thing for every other city in the game. Seriously, in the 3 years that Rabanastre was occupied, there were no rebel uprisings, no terrorist bombings, no riots in the streets, no soldiers getting drunk and killing and ****** people for fun, none of that? Well ****, if the Rabanastrans didn't even put up a fight when they got occupied then they deserve it. Now maybe I'm missing out on something, like the king or queen of Rabanastre told them to not resist for her sake or they're like the nicest invaders ever or something, but nobody told me that **** in the game, so what the hell. We do see the effects of the occupation of Rabanastre on Vaan's life, but he and all the other main characters of FFXII just aren't that likable. Whenever Vaan's not whining or angsting he's doing or saying something stupid. Why would you make the comedy relief character the main character? Especially if he's not actually funny.

Oh, and there was no breadcrumb trail either, but if there was would you have really expected it to lead where it did? I mean come on, the whole thing was a bunch of gods? Yeah, Sephiroth was probably being manipulated too and FFIV is all about mind control, but I still thought Square would know better than to re-use plots from 10-15 years earlier. Gamers aren't idiots. We know when you're being lazy.

FFXIII does a much better job at showing cities in a state of emergency. The l'Cie quarantine, them being put on a train, NORA fighting the other soldiers, and every city you go to in the next few chapters being either filled with monsters, guards, guard monsters, or all three gives you a feeling that there really is conflict going on and that Cocoon is being put in a state of emergency. The environments still look pristine, but given the fact that this is supposed to be happening over a period of less than 2 weeks (as opposed to 3 years), I can kind of forgive them for that. When we get to Gran Pulse and see Oerba destroyed, infested with monsters, and rotting, we get the feeling that Cocoon really destroyed Pulse between the few hundreds of years when Fang and Vanille were crystallized and then awoke and that it's completely gone and never coming back, leading to Fang and Vanille's sadness that they had nothing left in the world.

Spoiler

Which contributed to their eventual martyrdom at the end of the game.

So yeah, FFXII kinda sucked at having good villains. You can have good villains without them being overpowered. Look at Batman's rogues gallery. A lot of them are just normal guys. In fact, some of the best stories are about serial killers who are human. You don't need to have Darksied in Batman comics and you don't need to have Sephiroth in every FF game. As long as your villain is well written, it doesn't matter if they're overpowered or not. Although we're talking about video games, so they probably should be for the sake of not having a retardedly easy final boss (**cough**YU YEVON**cough**).

 

[finalark]

Holy ****, Gates.

 

[Gates]

Yeah, my sensei canceled training so I have nothing to do today lol.

I just don't see how the empire ****ed everything up in FFXII when everyone is living a relatively normal life. It seems less like a huge invasion and more like getting a president from a different political party.

 

[finalark]

After... skimming, your wall of text I'm just gonna say that XII did have a weak plot. Although I did like the western-style dialog, they kind of messed up on the whole "show, don't tell" thing. I have a feeling the story would be much better if Square didn't force the game's director the change the story so much.

Either way, I liked the openness, the combat, the dungeons and the world. The License board can go die in a fire, though.

 

[Gates]

"Western-style dialogue"? Everyone was British except Vaan and Penelo.

Either way, I liked the openness, the combat, the dungeons and the world. The License board can go die in a fire, though.

That's pretty much what I meant when I said it had good gameplay. The License Board isn't so bad though. It's just the Sphere Grid only less direct.

 

[LivewiresXe]

I'm just going to throw into this that I don't think FFX is anything like FFXIII. I dunno, it just seems entirely different in well, everything. And kind of like, not up to FFX standards in things too. Though, I should point out that I feel the last really good FF game (like numbered wise) was FFX.

 

[finalark]

I'm just going to throw into this that I don't think FFX is anything like FFXIII. I dunno, it just seems entirely different in well, everything. And kind of like, not up to FFX standards in things too. Though, I should point out that I feel the last really good FF game (like numbered wise) was FFX.

I disagree. XIII is a lot like X, they're both very linear, making their maps straight trails with the occasional side path, have very linear customization and are highly story-driven.

Honestly, the only real major difference is the battle system.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

Lightning > Tidus.

That is all.

 

[finalark]

Lightning > Tidus.

That is all.

Quoted for Truth.

Plus, XIII has much better translated and acted dialog than X did.

 

[mystery_dungeon]

Lightning > Tidus.

That is all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReuopfAbNcI

Couldn't resist. :V

 

[Sim]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReuopfAbNcI

Couldn't resist. :V

There's a lot of win in that post.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

So I'm considering getting a PSP so I can play Dissidia

However, I'm very concerned that you have to have a PS3 in order to play Dissidia Online (via Adhoc or something?) and that you can't play US vs EU (and vice versa)

How do you play Dissidia online without a PS3 and can you play people in the US if you're from UK/EU?