General Discussion & Character Rankings

[Zero]

lol nice work

 

[earla]

splice has also beaten tibz nova.

the reason you lose nova is because you spotdodge + roll on reaction + camp the majority games. not mk.

and diddy players of char. mains have no reason to complain about mk. no mk has even camped tibz out even.

i love playing mks with other characters. keeps you awake right? embrace it

weak players like to blame mk on their losses instead of acknowledgeing their opponents skill. good for you guys. people with that mentality struggle against the better mks.

the guys who i've found do well against mk step up to the challenge. props to them

ledge, liam, afro etc. are all dedicated players, they'd do well with any char.

 

[Technodeath]

I sense some anger.

U MAD?

 

[swordsaint]

Earl: + camp the majority games...

Like you're not meant to do that if you're not Metaknight? (sounds like someone doesnt know how to use other characters who are not metaknight....)

also - people with any mentality struggle against the better mks

I like playing against mks. it's a fun matchup, you're right when you say it keeps you awake. but that doesnt change anything.

just ftr a couple of examples

if snake doesnt camp mk with his grenades and get aggressive, mks doing to destroy his options, get him offstage and gimp him like hell

if falco approaches metaknight too much, mk will shut down falco options. he has to wait and space outside of mk with lasers, jabs and ftilts, until mk screws up or until falco gets a read on the mk that lets him a hit in. in most characters mks not open for a very long time and can very easily be misleading and get punished because mk is the gay

if the diddy is approaching mk with bananas he's obviously getting away with iit (which he shouldn't) like falco, diddy should be playing outside of mks range shooting his nuts in his face while he's jumping around, and waiting for an opportunity for a nana trip to get in a few percent.

 

[Attila_]

i dont think ive ever seen earl angry on the boards. we're not having a go at you earl, so please don't misunderstand. but if you think mk isn't the easiest character to take tournament placings with, you mad.

and yes, all characters have to camp mk. i'm not exactly sure why, but i think its got something to do with his transcendent priority, lagless moveset and that spinning move that effectively goes through all but about 15 moves in the game, irregardless of spacing. but i dunno, thats just me hazarding a guess.

 

[tibs7]

Earl you want acknowledgement for your skill?
You already get some but I gurantee you people would give you alot more if you won a tourny with zss or marth or something man.. That's just how it is.

You also said you enjoy playing against mk's? Mann do it for 8
months, see how times you get gimped or cp ***** or
something, you will not enjoy it haha.
But it is fulfilling beating mk's spesh on their cp's

 

[Zero]

lol ZSS winning a tourney

all it takes is one Falco to ruin that dream

 

[earla]

lol im chilled.

simply saying the mk's that u's are crediting success to because of the char are good players and for you all to stop being school girls and continually *****ing about something that's been discussed a million times.

i don't even play mk anymore. ask nicks.

 

[swordsaint]

again i think you misunderstand. we acknowledge them as GOOD players. nowhere did we say they werent, we've merely questioned this: "would they be AS successful in tournaments without metaknight". its purely subjective of course, but there's no harm in asking that. no ones doubted their potential or skill as a player but only mks influence on their overall achievements (not skill)

 

[CAOTIC]

So... Luke's rules look fun -- and it finds ways to give good chars like MK and bad chars like Dorf more of an equal purpose in tournaments.

 

[M]

So... Luke's rules look fun -- and it finds ways to give good chars like MK and bad chars like Dorf more of an equal purpose in tournaments.

Yet unfortunately, certain low tiers are a lot more viable than Ganondorf still.

 

[CAOTIC]

I'm assuming the rules provide some flexibility to further finegrain a character's points based on their tournament potential? It'd be a nice thought anyway.

 

[earla]

accept that mk is going to **** you, your mum, wife children, childrens children and your grandma if you lucky.

if u dont like it, i highly encourage you to play melee or a balanced game instead of sooking about it on forums.

tibz + tila certainly can't complain if anyone because of the chars that they use that clean up most of the cast easily.

sour because tibz was 6-1'd in adelaide? recently lost to afro? lol get over it or find a solution.

luke's idea sounds splendid.

 

[tibs7]

Well scoot I actually do think we are questioning there skill when we say mk is doing it or them lol.

But yeah earl saying that other chars (other top tiers) sweep like mk is kinda silly.
And nah man not all sour over that stuff man hahaha. I just still don't like mk

 

[Attila_]

hey earl, i have 6 bad mus, how many do you have?

dont even try that comparison, son.

 

[tibs7]

Lol snake barely has any you noob.
Like oli(barely),falco,mk,d3? That's not 6

 

[...Ellipsis...]

Just wait till you get to play my MK next tournament I'm at Scott it has powered up about 1000 levels. Last time I played you it was trash in comparison, so prepare for some fun.

Also I like Luke's rules.

 

[swordsaint]

lol i look forward to it liam. but i wont suck like last time and have to come back from a 2-0 down set

and fyi tibs: snake > falco 55-45 ^_^

 

[Attila_]

Lol snake barely has any you noob.
Like oli(barely),falco,mk,d3? That's not 6

oli is arguably the worst. you forgot marth and wario.

that being said, coming from someone who's snake can't beat my ics, your opinion really doesn't mean much. only talk when you know what you're talking about. i'm really not in the mood.

 

[swordsaint]

i thought snake oli was near even because of dthrow tech chasing and the fact ftilt lasts long enough to hit himself out of olimars grab (no super armour)

I also thought snake was 55-45 snake> marth

 

[J-Birds]

55-45 is hardly a bad matchup... its even enough that i wouldn't even consider the disadvantage bad enough to swap characters.

With a ratio like 55-45 the better player is going to win almost every time regardless of which side of the matchup they are on.

Also i don't think any high tier main has any place to say that x player wouldn't do nearly as well without metaknight.

 

[tibs7]

James mk is so much better than every char so we can say that.

And yeah 55-45 barely bad. +the fact that snake can turn a match around in a matter of 2-3 ftilts or a few tech chases barely makes anything 'bad' for snake

 

[Attila_]

the fact that snake can turn a match around in a matter of 2-3 ftilts or a few tech chases barely makes anything 'bad' for snake

that says more about your di than anything about snake.

55:54 implies its in someone's favour, doesn't it? otherwise we'd call the mu 50:50. not that bad, but not even. oh, and you can't compare mk to high tier characters, cause he's not in high tier.

***: ill summarise the oli mu for you on msn later, if you really care. if it was a troll, i cbf replying.

 

[Silfa]

Snake's ftilt does like 20% and comes out very quickly. A number of those combined with explosions and having snake chase you around after putting you on the floor and it doesn't really matter how good your DI is.

I agree that 55-45 is barely a bad matchup. It might mean the match might be very slightly more in one characters favour, but it doesn't make it bad.

 

[C~Dog]

If MK wasn't there, the characters that are actually deemed 'bad' (40:60) matchups for Snake would actually be encountered more often. Snake does so well because Metaknight counters Snakes bad matchups.

EDIT: Same can arguably be said for Diddy actually.

 

[tibs7]

You can say that fo everyone since mk counters everyone though... :/

 

[Attila_]

If MK wasn't there, the characters that are actually deemed 'bad' (40:60) matchups for Snake would actually be encountered more often. Snake does so well because Metaknight counters Snakes bad matchups.

EDIT: Same can arguably be said for Diddy actually.

snake also has arguably the best mu with mk, too, which helps.

that being said, no snakes besides ally in the top 16 (or even 20) at mlg. there were 8 mks, though.

 

[C~Dog]

He doesn't counter everyone. Counter in this context is 65:35 or worse He goes 'even' or near it with most of A tier, and either gives the rest of high tier a 'bad' matchup (40:60) or 'soft' counters them (65:35) aka D3, Olimar, etc.

A lot of the time, MK isn't even the best choice to use against other high tiers. He is simply the safest choice. Because most characters which counter or have significantly advantageous matchups with high tiers are themselves countered by MK.

He also isn't the best choice to use against the majority of low tiers. But once again, he can't be counter, unlike other low tier wreckers aka D3.

 

[luke_atyeo]

I think what they are getting at earl is that its not 'if you lose to mk, its because you werent as good, try again next time' because if your near the skill level of your opponent, or even better then them they can still beat you with mk, to win over mk you have to be a fair bit better then your opponent to win (or play snake, the only real even character against mk)

not only that, but mk user's dont have to concentrate that hard for the majority of the time, only when it really counts, giving them an advantage over others in long tourneys where mental fatigue comes into play.


as for snakes bad matchups

olimar 70:30 (this one has been argued to be less then that, even as low as 55:45, but either way its still a rather bad matchup)

d3 65:35 (1 grab should = 1 stock)

marth 55:45

falco 55:45

mk 55:45 (on most stages, otherwise 50:50 imo)

 

[Nova]

Edit: cbf
Some of you farknuckles need to learn to read.
I dunno why I bothered to type out what I had here before, it'll go straight over said peoples heads, again.

 

[swordsaint]

god sometimes i wish i was your type nova

 

[SummonerAU]

arf arf arf

 

[J-Birds]

James mk is so much better than every char so we can say that.
And yeah 55-45 barely bad. +the fact that snake can turn a match around in a matter of 2-3 ftilts or a few tech chases barely makes anything 'bad' for snake

I mostly meant hes not that much better in regard to the matchup of the characters mentioned (falco, snake diddy).
Though mk is pretty good i suppose.

<3
Hey Tibs play me next time =)

as for snakes bad matchups

olimar 70:30 (this one has been argued to be less then that, even as low as 55:45, but either way its still a rather bad matchup)

d3 65:35 (1 grab should = 1 stock)

marth 55:45

falco 55:45

mk 55:45 (on most stages, otherwise 50:50 imo)

Those seem a bit harsh imo though understandable.
I would probably drop 5% off Oli and D3.
Agree that marth can be just as hard if not more so then the mk matchup (stage dependant obvs).

 

[zApollo]

lol ZSS winning a tourney

all it takes is one Falco to ruin that dream

Come to SA, the falcos here are radd

 

[Nova]

I'd much rather play Marth than MK with Snake, lol.
I'm done whining about it though.
Said scenes will grow tired of it regardless of peoples inability to read simple suggestions.
I maintain that I'm a crap player at Brawl and anybody that loses to me is horrible, especially with MK.

Apollo - Yeah our scene rules. We've got the best everything. <3
Thank **** Melee is starting up in SA again, lol.

 

[luke_atyeo]

I'd rather fight mk then marth with snake personally.

also jbirds you picked up foxy too?

 

[xXArrowXx]

the only problem i have with mk is that gay shutterloop gimp..

i haven't played a good marth.. but i think ide do alright

 

[Alzi]

You feel like throwing your controler against the wall when you vs Shaya.

 

[Nova]

Fox would be epicly fun if his gravity wasn't.... well, foxes.
I like Fox V Snake though, I'd consider using him in that M/U; need to get some friendlies with a Snake main.

 

[Shaya]

Fox is uber fun against everyone but rat(s), incestuous whores and squirtle's ftilt.