General Discussion & Character Rankings

[Zxv]

Great idea, Connor.

 

[Zero]

Should do it for all locals as well. There's no reason not to since we almost always have enough TVs to do it with.

 

[iKiLLOTz]

Why werent we doin this ages ago?

 

[CAOTIC]

And the TV's are always free when the bracket is that advanced.

 

[C~Dog]

Pretty sure it's because it wasn't necessary for monetary placements.

Man i'm so doing this from now on.

 

[Shaya]

nothing too new

just its always cbf

 

[Splice]

Shaya, do you give me REAL 7th place at Robocop, in honour of Frigate Shennanigans and Sportsmanship?

Corpse, get on that plane back to Melb you have a best of 3 set with tibs for the Real 5th place!

 

[Shaya]

I'd prefer to take my proper placement of 5th from tibor tbh.

 

[Hater]

well can i has first then ? I feel like no1 is claiming it

 

[C~Dog]

Adjusting the Damage Ratio to 1.1 for Balance

If anyone has been keeping up with this, what are your thoughts?

 

[Zero]

Brawl 1.1

It's a whole new metagame we live in

do do do do do do

complainers gonna complain etc

 

[xXArrowXx]

sounds interesting.
if people like it ill play..
its abit embrassing when i play scrubs tho to turn it up to 1.1. and they go why.

 

[EverAlert]

I didn't know about the 1.1x discussion before, but I did quite a bit of reading on it tonight. The general reaction seems fairly favourable. It's a really interesting idea.



Been doing a bit of playing around with it on; there's quite a few subtle things it affects beyond the obvious.

Marth's spike now topples grounded opponents, even at 0% as long as it's fresh, which leads to things like jab forced getup into whatever Marth wants (possibly jab lock? I wouldn't know if his is fast enough...). He also feels more "solid" in general.

MK doesn't seem too different in his approach/aggro game, I don't have a person with me atm to test tho so I don't know how much easier it is to escape tornado, etc.

I'd imagine this buffs Lucario quite a bit, faster to get him to the percent he likes and on top of that he dishes out more damage? lol.

Haven't played around with ICs yet.. though I'd imagine they're more rounded in general, cgs/desyncs unchanged, but harder to get grabs with and better "normal" game.



I'm definitely up for a 1.1x side-bracket at the next Boost or whetever, see how it goes. Make it happen, Shaya!

 

[Rad]

This is a very substanceless post... but my only reaction to this is that you cannot be serious.

 

[Zxv]

After reading a few posts, I am veerrryy interested to test out 1.1 and also Heavy Brawl. I think I could support this - anything that gives Peach more killing potential is fine by me. Must test at next meet...

 

[C~Dog]

just thought I'd give everyone an update as to a few "kill" throws/moves % comparisons

keep in mind that the following character is attempting to kill snake WITH DI on FD

--------------------------------------------------------- DR 1.0 -------------------- DR 1.1

Ness B-throw ---------------------------------- 158% ------------------------- 132%

Lucas D-throw ---------------------------------200% ---------------------------160%

Snake up-tilt ----------------------------------145%-----------------------------117%

Ganon Murder stomp ----------------------117% ----------------------------95%

This is to give an idea of how much earlier moves kill.

 

[xXArrowXx]

it is the same game.. not like its a hack..
might even be able to put 4 stock.

btw mario up b.. kill move??

 

[Shaya]

If the 1.1 setting were to occur,
then mistakes could be punished with more severity, like in melee. And maybe ted will die to forward smash tippers out of grab release. On the other hand, half wafts will kill like rest did in melee. BUT PROBABLY EARLIER.

But I'm still worried about how much things "change".
Like... Sheik's chain being op.

 

[C~Dog]

IIRC Ripple(?) made a good post about how Chain still isn't OPd.

 

[Zero]

Changing the damage ratio doesn't make the hitstun go up.
Changing the damage ratio doesn't make the shieldstun go up.
Changing the damage ratio doesn't create guaranteed followups (it would make it worse, if anything).

Playing with a heightened damage ratio is basically appeasing to the people who complain about the game and/or don't even play the game.

If you play Brawl, you most likely enjoy all the gay/cool stuff you can do within the current context. Can you be sure that you will like the game with a change like this?

I probably wouldn't.

 

[C~Dog]

I'm pretty sure it DOES make hitstun go up.

 

[Zero]

Even if it did (which I don't think it does, from just playing it), it would be moot because you can cancel all hitstun with aerials + airdodge anyway.

 

[Pete278]

If you play Brawl, you're most likely a masochist, therefore the increased damage, being more painful to your character, will be good for you. They should thus max out the damage ratio.

 

[xXArrowXx]

i dont play brawl for gay chain grabs.

 

[C~Dog]

Oh so you play it for Meta Knight then.

 

[Leisha]

Everyone plays brawl for metaknight =p

 

[Zero]

So you play Brawl for Brawl?

oh wait

 

[xXArrowXx]

metaknight is still in 1.1.....

 

[Shaya]

Hitstun is still "contained" within the rules of once hitstun goes into tumble ("30 frames of hit stun") you can cancel it with attacks/airdodge.

Its just that moves with high bases, but lower knock back growths suddenly get big boosts.

Things like marth's dancing blade 1, which doesn't "combo" until like 200% odd normally, can suddenly... have some frame advantage of sorts. Or at least better frame advantage than before

Supposedly Ike can true combo jab to utilt.
Now, this was always possible, but only at a really high percent.

 

[M]

This is interesting, but it sounds like its an entirely new game, considering the quantity of changes.

 

[xXArrowXx]

attack and grab range should be same

 

[Splice]

Characters to choose from should be the same

 

[xXArrowXx]

same stages.. or maybe custom stages will be legal... :/ lol

why dont we have a flat custom stage neutral lol

 

[Attila_]

snake's utilt kills earlier. let's do it

 

[Hater]

this wont help rob i don't endorse it Most of my kills come from just out living my opponent

 

[Vyse]

sounds interesting.
if people like it ill play..
its abit embrassing when i play scrubs tho to turn it up to 1.1. and they go why.

Agree 100% and if anything is probably why I won't endorse it.

After reading a few posts, I am veerrryy interested to test out 1.1 and also Heavy Brawl. I think I could support this - anything that gives Peach more killing potential is fine by me. Must test at next meet...

Heavy Brawl would probably stop planking but I think Dedede/Falco's chaingrabs would become OP.

Changing the damage ratio doesn't make the hitstun go up.
Changing the damage ratio doesn't make the shieldstun go up.
Changing the damage ratio doesn't create guaranteed followups (it would make it worse, if anything).

Playing with a heightened damage ratio is basically appeasing to the people who complain about the game and/or don't even play the game.

If you play Brawl, you most likely enjoy all the gay/cool stuff you can do within the current context. Can you be sure that you will like the game with a change like this?

I probably wouldn't.

+1 agree.

I'm not closed off to the idea, but it's a problematic idea at best.

 

[Hater]

Everyone plays metaknight for brawl =p

Fixed for ya ^^

 

[EverAlert]

I still don't know if I'm for or against this. It's definitely one of the most interesting suggestions to date, though, in that it's subtle and not obviously madness. I really want to see a tournament run with 1.1x in the ruleset now and see how it plays out.

Changing the damage ratio doesn't make the hitstun go up.
Changing the damage ratio doesn't make the shieldstun go up.
Changing the damage ratio doesn't create guaranteed followups (it would make it worse, if anything).

Wrong on all accounts, although the extent of which the last one is false is debatable imo.

Shield stun (and lag) are explicitly based on how much damage a move does (or would do). Same deal with regular hitlag, although the formula is slightly different, and I -believe- hitstun is also affected somewhat by damage output, though obviously not so explicitly.

I cbf digging up the formulas on the spot, but I'll grab them for you if say you're curious.

 

[C~Dog]

One guy (a DK dude, forgot his name) has done research which confirmed that damage ratio has no affect on Shield Stun/Lag.

 

[Splice]

Ok look can we just continue playing the game how we are playing it y'know with the same Metagame I've been learning for the past 2 years? That'd be grand thanks