Gay!

[Lenus Altair]

"Gay" is a term commonly used in Super Smash Brothers and other gaming communities. It is used to describe tactics or attacks the Players feel are powerful if not overpowered or things that require little skill but are effective. "Stupid", "Broken", or "Cheap" would be common synonyms.

In short it is used negatively. It is derogatory. A super majority of Players of all skill levels use the term Gay this way. So I wanted to ask...

How do you fell about this? Do you think it is right or wrong to use the term this way? Do you think it matters/should matter? How do you think it makes others feel?


My general opinion is obvious though I'll go more into it after I hear some thoughts.

 

[Ghostbone]

It really doesn't matter lol.

It's just a term used to describe something as annoying.

Nobody uses it to intentionally degrade gays or anything.

 

[Seikend]

10 ghostbones are correct.

There is no homophobic intent behind the word. You say it yourself, it's "used to describe tactics or attacks the Players feel are powerful if not overpowered or things that require little skill but are effective.". The word just also happens to mean "homosexual".

 

[Jonas]

ghostbone said it. It's just part of the slang and nobody is taking a jab at gay people.

The word just also happens to mean "homosexual".

It also means "merry" or "happy." I don't think smashers hate happy people lol

 

[Lenus Altair]

There is no homophobic intent behind the word. You say it yourself, it's "used to describe tactics or attacks the Players feel are powerful if not overpowered or things that require little skill but are effective.". The word just also happens to mean "homosexual".

I think you're a little off. Gay just doesn't also "happen" to mean homosexual. The reason why the word Gay is in the context of my given definition is because the Belief the tactic is wrong. Because the people who first started using the term that way believed homosexuality is wrong. "Planking is gay, wrong or broken, like homosexuals."

I agree that the majority of the people on these boards arn't trying to attack homosexuals in its usage, but does that take away from the fact there is bigotry behind the use of the word that way?

I mean if the word "Black" was used instead would it not be Racist? If "Jewish" was used instead would it not be bigoted?

 

[-Ran]

Go watch this episode of South Park. http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s13e12-the-f-word. Be grateful the word isn't being used as a hateful term.

 

[Jonas]

I mean if the word "Black" was used instead would it not be Racist? If "Jewish" was used instead would it not be bigoted?

It seems obvious that the answer to this question is "yes," but your argument lacks context. If "black" or "Jewish" had a widespread use as a slang for something "wrong or broken," who's to say it wouldn't be more accepted, just like "gay" is?

The origin of the word as a slang is also irrelevant because the people who use it aren't always the same as the people it originated with. Maybe the people who started calling everything they don't like "gay" just hate gay people, but the slang is so common that non-homophobic and even some gay people use it.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I'm Autistic, I use "********" all the time to describe the actions of others.
I'm Bi, and I use "gay" all the time. Not sure if that really still counts, but w/e.

Gay in this day and age has 3 meanings. It can mean a person who is homosexual, it can be a word to describe something which bothers a person/is felt to be cheap, in the context of competitive video games, or it can be its original meaning, and be used to describe feelings of mirth or joy.

I believe in absolute freedom of speech, and that's absolute. It might be rude, or cruel, or just flat-out racist to speak in one way or another, but that, in my opinion, is a fundamental right.

Now, if your intentions are to change the opinions of people, as you are doing right now, that is fine. But people do, imo, have the right to use the word as they do now. It might not be nice, it might be (not might be, IS) bigotry, but I do believe people have the right to say it.

 

[link2702]

while we're on the topic of controversial words.....

i've got a question for all african american users;


why the heck do ya'll (or alot of y'all) use the N word to describe each other/other people, whether they are friends, or random people its always like.

i mean don't you all know the history behind this word? how offensive it is towards your race.

and even stranger is how were a white person to even say this word outloud...ya'll would beat the holy living hell out of him or at the very least, were it a friend of yours..you'd drop them as a friend in a heartbeat, or start getting mad at em like "dude thats not cool...thats racist man" but yet its ok for you guys to call each other this word or others it like its a friendly term



this is something that has bugged us white people since ya'll first started doing it.

 

[Lenus Altair]

Go watch this episode of South Park. http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s13e12-the-f-word. Be grateful the word isn't being used as a hateful term.

Using the word Gay in the way I presented is hateful, even if not intended as such and not as blatant.

It seems obvious that the answer to this question is "yes," but your argument lacks context. If "black" or "Jewish" had a widespread use as a slang for something "wrong or broken," who's to say it wouldn't be more accepted, just like "gay" is?

Accepted =/= Correct. At one point it was accepted to have separate fountains for "colored" people.

The origin of the word as a slang is also irrelevant because the people who use it aren't always the same as the people it originated with. Maybe the people who started calling everything they don't like "gay" just hate gay people, but the slang is so common that non-homophobic and even some gay people use it.

It's not irrelevant because the intent behind the way it was originally used still clings to how people casually use it today; that is that something is "wrong" for being gay.

Also, whether or not you are gay and still use the slang term doesn't hold weight. You're almost saying "Because the majority of people do it, it is correct to do so." If that logic were true, we would still worship Zeus or some other random Faith.

I believe in absolute freedom of speech, and that's absolute. It might be rude, or cruel, or just flat-out racist to speak in one way or another, but that, in my opinion, is a fundamental right.

Now, if your intentions are to change the opinions of people, as you are doing right now, that is fine. But people do, imo, have the right to use the word as they do now. It might not be nice, it might be (not might be, IS) bigotry, but I do believe people have the right to say it.

I Agree that people have the right to use the word that way. I am also glad that you seem to agree that the way it is casually used here is bigoted.

What I am trying to do is convince people that using the term is bigoted and hurtful.

People have their freedom of speech, but as more and more people come to feel the use of the word Gay as negative slang is wrong, the more whiplash those who use it will receive and honestly, it's well deserved.

No one but bigots will ever applaud someone for saying "That's so gay" as witty word choice to describe their negative feelings. On the other hand there are a growing number of individuals who will lose respect for you for such careless words.

 

[adumbrodeus]

It isn't so much a matter of hurtful.


It's a matter of it drawing an implicit connection in people's head, because that's what using language does, associates concepts.

 

[황미영]

To think using the word gay is a way to offend you in any way seems to be conceited. 'Cause most likely no one is talking about homosexuals in anyway. :I

Also, present us with an alternative word to use. ;O

 

[MrEh]

Go watch this episode of South Park. http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s13e12-the-f-word. Be grateful the word isn't being used as a hateful term.

Does anything else even need to be said? Honestly.

 

[Lenus Altair]

It isn't so much a matter of hurtful.


It's a matter of it drawing an implicit connection in people's head, because that's what using language does, associates concepts.

True enough, but the associated concepts of using the word Gay as it is done in the community here at large are both negative now and bigoted in origin.

To think using the word gay is a way to offend you in any way seems to be conceited. 'Cause most likely no one is talking about homosexuals in anyway. :I

Also, present us with an alternative word to use. ;O

Easy: Overpowered, Unfair, Annoying, Broken, Unbeatable, Wrong, Needs Change, etc... Use the right word for the right context.

If you aren't talking about homosexuals then use something else. The way Gay is used here is generally to mean something is wrong. That slang is derived from the idea the homosexuality is wrong. It doesn't matter whether it was directed to offend me, GLBT people, or not. What matters is it's bigoted to use it as a generalized negative idea.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I can completely understand where you're coming from, Lenus, and if it helps I'll try to go out of my way to not use it in any way other than referring to mirth or people who are actually gay. Keep in mind it's ingrained very deeply in the way most people talk, people don't necessarily go out of their way to say it. I know I have a major issue where I don't really think about what I say/post until after I've done so.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

10 ghostbones are correct.

There is no homophobic intent behind the word. You say it yourself, it's "used to describe tactics or attacks the Players feel are powerful if not overpowered or things that require little skill but are effective.". The word just also happens to mean "homosexual".

THIS.

Go watch this episode of South Park. http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s13e12-the-f-word. Be grateful the word isn't being used as a hateful term.

ALSO THIS.

Seriously.

 

[Lenus Altair]

I can completely understand where you're coming from, Lenus, and if it helps I'll try to go out of my way to not use it in any way other than referring to mirth or people who are actually gay. Keep in mind it's ingrained very deeply in the way most people talk, people don't necessarily go out of their way to say it. I know I have a major issue where I don't really think about what I say/post until after I've done so.

Thank you for your understand. Every person counts.

ALSO THIS.

Seriously.

South Park =/= End all argument.

Seriously.

Let's try another angle. How do you think people around you feel when you drop the word? Have you thought about those who are still coming to terms with there sexual identity?

When you use the term Gay in this negative connotation, whether it is your intent or not, you are labeling a tactic or attack as wrong. It's annoying. Something that shouldn't be allowed. Why are there these "gay" things anyway?

To those who are still dealing with the sexual orientation it reinforces fears. It implies there is something wrong with them. Further it labels their existence as undesirable by those at large.

Have you considered that?

 

[황미영]

Lol, people still use those words along with gay. :I

And wat? Why wouldn't they be wanted? Because they prefer to have sex with people of the same gender? That is a dumb reason to hate someone. Everyone has their preferences.

 

[Flayl]

Honestly I'd rather people stop using the word **** than gay.

If you say **** in any other language you immediately realize how wrong it is to use it to apply to a videogame.

"Foste violado!"

 

[Zankoku]

When you use the term Gay in this negative connotation, whether it is your intent or not, you are labeling a tactic or attack as wrong.

You're right. We're using the word "gay" to label a tactic or attack as "wrong." Notice how we are not using it to label that tactic or attack as "homosexual," nor are we labeling it as "happy."

 

[Lenus Altair]

Lol, people still use those words along with gay. :I

And wat? Why wouldn't they be wanted? Because they prefer to have sex with people of the same gender? That is a dumb reason to hate someone. Everyone has their preferences.

Well you see there is this place called High School. People aren't always so nice.

Honestly I'd rather people stop using the word **** than gay.

If you say **** in any other language you immediately realize how wrong it is to use it to apply to a videogame.

"Foste violado!"

Using the Word **** bothers me too. Often times **** and Gay are both used together or to imply the other.

I don't remember the commenter, but I remember distinctly while watch Whobo 3 one of them saying they got "***** so bad" and going on about how much his arse had been widen cause of it. That I did find offensive.

The thing is you don't know who is coming to terms with being gay or being a **** victim by looking so when you drop those terms you alienate people around you without even knowing it. It's shows a lack of understanding, sensitivity, and compassion. It hurts people.

 

[Zankoku]

The thing is you don't know who is coming to terms with being gay or being a **** victim by looking so when you drop those terms you alienate people around you without even knowing it. It's shows a lack of understanding, sensitivity, and compassion. It hurts people.

I would argue that taking offense from the potential meaning of a word if you took that word out of context displays more lack of understanding than use of the word in a way that it is commonly used, whether positive or negative, is.

 

[adumbrodeus]

True enough, but the associated concepts of using the word Gay as it is done in the community here at large are both negative now and bigoted in origin.

Exactly my point.




What people are doing when they label people/tactics as "gay" is linguistically reinforcing a negative connotation for homosexuals.

You're right. We're using the word "gay" to label a tactic or attack as "wrong." Notice how we are not using it to label that tactic or attack as "homosexual," nor are we labeling it as "happy."

Well I am, but I sincerely doubt that the vast majority of people enjoy timing other people out.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Hey, I enjoy timing people out.

With Ganondorf.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't get it.

There is typically no animosity towards gays when people say gay while playing Smash.

The definitions and meanings of words evolve.

If you don't like it, just ask the player you're talking to not to use the word.

 

[Lenus Altair]

You're right. We're using the word "gay" to label a tactic or attack as "wrong." Notice how we are not using it to label that tactic or attack as "homosexual," nor are we labeling it as "happy."

The problem lies that the use of the word gay as "wrong" comes from the idea that it's wrong to be a homosexual.

I would argue that taking offense from the potential meaning of a word if you took that word out of context displays more lack of understanding than use of the word in a way that it is commonly used, whether positive or negative, is.

If you were taking it out of context you would be changing the meaning of what is being said. When the word gay is used casually to mean "wrong" it still implies the negative association of gay being wrong.

Exactly my point.


What people are doing when they label people/tactics as "gay" is linguistically reinforcing a negative connotation for homosexuals.

I'm glad we seem to agree.

 

[Zankoku]

The problem lies that the use of the word gay as "wrong" comes from the idea that it's wrong to be a homosexual.

Well, that's the connection you're making. Maybe I'm a bit detached from trying to deeply analyze word usage in pop culture. Like this guy said,

There is typically no animosity towards gays when people say gay while playing Smash.

The definitions and meanings of words evolve.

If you don't like it, just ask the player you're talking to not to use the word.

I'm sure nobody would deny a simple request to not use the word that way, but it's not exactly reasonable to hope an entire community, or rather an entire set of communities, would suddenly omit a rather commonly used word without them all being made aware that there might be people who are offended by it.

 

[Lenus Altair]

Well, that's the connection you're making.

I'm not the only one in this community or at large.

I'm sure nobody would deny a simple request to not use the word that way, but it's not exactly reasonable to hope an entire community, or rather an entire set of communities, would suddenly omit a rather commonly used word without them all being made aware that there might be people who are offended by it.

Then consider this thread being made aware that it is offensive.

Obviously I promote it with my Sig as well. Perhaps I should start a poll to see how many people actually do find words like Gay and **** to be distasteful so people could anonymously express there opinions. We might both be surprised.

 

[vVv Rapture]

To be completely honest, if I really want to make the point of insulting someone or a kind of person or a group of people, trust me, you'll notice the difference.

I use the term because others have used it and it just became part of my vocabulary. I understand driving a negative connotation from it, but to be honest, you have to look at it in context. If I trip in Brawl and yell, "That's ****ing gay!", obviously I mean the situation sucks and I'm displeased. At the same time, I'm not drawing the conclusion that those kinds of situations are automatically associated with some hypothetical hatred for homosexuals (which doesn't exist, as I have no problem with sexual orientation, race, etc.). That'd be like saying the game sucks and having me say that insulted lollipop manufacturers.

Fact is, it's just a word and a word is only that unless you give it a meaning. Whether or not you take it personally sometimes is out of the speaker's hands because that's just uncontrollable, but the worst thing to do is to just assume the worst and say that any time someone yells that out, it's a negative gesture towards whomever it defines.

 

[Lenus Altair]

Rapture, when you say "that's f**king gay!" I doubt people assume that you have a hatred of homosexuals. That's not what I'm arguing.

I'm saying that when a person does say something like that you're label something being gay as displeasing despite what your true feelings towards gay people are. Whatever you're intentions are, that connection is still there and is inherent to the example you just gave.

Generally if I was around some who yelled that out I would say "That's not gay. That's stupid. Trust me I know what's gay."

 

[vVv Rapture]

Rapture, when you say "that's f**king gay!" I doubt people assume that you have a hatred of homosexuals. That's not what I'm arguing.

I'm saying that when a person does say something like that you're label something being gay as displeasing despite what your true feelings towards gay people are. Whatever you're intentions are, that connection is still there and is inherent to the example you just gave.

Generally if I was around some who yelled that out I would say "That's not gay. That's stupid. Trust me I know what's gay."

Look at it this way. If you know "That's gay" is synonymous, in that situation, for, "That's stupid", then what's the difference? It's just a word.

Though, I do understand what you mean. The connection is made regardless. It's unfortunate, but I would still like to note that if you don't acknowledge the connection in the first place, it's really not a problem. The person saying it obviously doesn't mean to be hurtful, and though the usage may get to you...I mean, I'm trying to word this in a way that doesn't sound like, "get over it", but at the same time, it only offends if you allow it to.

 

[Lenus Altair]

Look at it this way. If you know "That's gay" is synonymous, in that situation, for, "That's stupid", then what's the difference?

The difference is using gay as a synonym for stupid in the first place.

 

[vVv Rapture]

The difference is using gay as a synonym for stupid in the first place.

Yeah, I know what you mean. Then again, I've never really seen a situation when someone calls someone "gay" to note their lack of intelligence, so obviously it has a certain context.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I don't get it.

There is typically no animosity towards gays when people say gay while playing Smash.

The definitions and meanings of words evolve.

If you don't like it, just ask the player you're talking to not to use the word.

The problem is that tying the meaning together results in the words fostering an unconscious connection, frankly the reason that gay developed as slang for something undesirable (unless you're me, and gain sustenance by crushing people's souls via time-outs) is because being gay IS considered undesirable by our culture. This is similar to the reason that all terms for African-Americans either are, were, or probably will be disparaging at some point, our culture considers them undesirable so disparaging implications develop naturally with the language for every term.


Dropping things like this from the vernacular consciously could be part of the process of changing that.

Well you see there is this place called High School. People aren't always so nice.



Using the Word **** bothers me too. Often times **** and Gay are both used together or to imply the other.

I don't remember the commenter, but I remember distinctly while watch Whobo 3 one of them saying they got "***** so bad" and going on about how much his arse had been widen cause of it. That I did find offensive.

The thing is you don't know who is coming to terms with being gay or being a **** victim by looking so when you drop those terms you alienate people around you without even knowing it. It's shows a lack of understanding, sensitivity, and compassion. It hurts people.

I will note that whether people are actually offended is, in my opinion, completely irrelevant.

People can be offended by absolutely anything, the issue that you SHOULD focus in on is the social effects and implications of continuing this implicit connection between gay and negativity.


Though, **** isn't about homosexuality, it's about power relationships and while the act may technically be homosexual it has no real connection either in language or conceptually to homosexuality. What it has connections with is with slavery and ownership, also women as property.

 

[Lenus Altair]

For the record I didn't say that **** is about homosexuality, just that the terms/ideas have been used together like in the example I made. That's all.

 

[adumbrodeus]

For the record I didn't say that **** is about homosexuality, just that the terms/ideas have been used together like in the example I made. That's all.

But it WASN'T about homosexuality in that context, it was **** of somebody that was a guy, power relationships, "making him the woman", ownership.

 

[Lenus Altair]

But it WASN'T about homosexuality in that context, it was **** of somebody that was a guy, power relationships, "making him the woman", ownership.

But wouldn't you say that "making him the woman" is tied to a lot of the derogatory and irate views on gay relationships?

Anyway I'm stretching it now.

 

[adumbrodeus]

But wouldn't you say that "making him the woman" is tied to a lot of the derogatory and irate views on gay relationships?

Anyway I'm stretching it now.

I would say that this is more an internal issue to the gay community DERIVED from the degradation of woman which is inherent in the concept. Gays are affected by it, granted, but similar to how men can be hurt by gender roles, it's a side effect of a concept with a very different target.

 

[EmperorB-rad2kj]

My question why are you acting as if this thread will get tons of people who do this to stop using the word gay to describe something, annoying, irritating, bothersome. If you know that they have no intent of the word being used to call out homosexuals but to show how "cheap" something is then it shouldn't be a problem.

All i see is you getting defensive and acting on it impulsively for no good reason or at least thats what i assume. Gay's original meaning was happy or cheerful, like *** meant a pile of sticks. Gay has more than one meaning. Homosexuality is just what the english language butchered and transformed gay into.

 

[Lenus Altair]

I made this thread seeing what people thought about the use of the word Gay in the smash community. I've felt it was negative and have been explaining why I feel that way in response to others comments. I felt that it is a issue that is largely ignored and seen as inconsequential. I feel that it shouldn't be seen that way.

I feel you exaggerate how I have been acting.