Gay!

[Pogogo]

Hold on you can change things

 

[Lenus Altair]

The word doesn't bother me at all, it is not aimed towards me, it is not being used in a hateful manner towards me, so why should I care?

Because it's being used in a way to harm others. That's why I care.

 

[Pogogo]

Think of how much progress has been made in womens rights and religios rights and antidiscrimantion

 

[Gatlin]

Hold on you can change things

Hate has existed in the world for hundreds of years, changing a whole world's perspective to accept everything in terms of agreement is literally impossible.

Because it's being used in a way to harm others. That's why I care.

So many times I have said this. It is not being directly aimed against you, it is not being used to harm you or your feelings. It is not being used to attack homosexuals. It is only harmful if you treat it as such.

 

[Pogogo]

Your definition of change is too black and white.

Some progress is still change. And this leads to more progress.

Saying there will always be "anger" is very vauge. How much and over what?

 

[Gea]

My issue with this thread is why does a community feel like they can censor what I say because they find it offensive? It would be one thing if the cause was relatively unknown and this was some sort of education on matters, but it isn't. People can clearly distinct the meanings of the word "gay" by context and choose to use the word anyways.

Why shouldn't I be pissed because homosexuals coined a word that did not previously mean homosexual? Way to take away a valid positive adjective away, jerks.

 

[Gatlin]

Your definition of change is too black and white.

Some progress is still change. And this leads to more progress.

Saying there will always be "anger" is very vauge. How much and over what?

Over anything that is debatable. Across the world people have many different views and beliefs about what is right and wrong. Trying to change these people's beliefs to your own is hard, especially if they have gone by these beliefs all their life. It is like a republican arguing with a democrat, their views are literally the complete opposite of each other. Do you ever expect them to come to a conclusion and agree on everything?

 

[Pogogo]

Im not talking about changing people's opinions necessarily, though opinions are widely copied. In 90 years, almost everyone alive today will be dead. What opinions will emerge? You can never say in society that opinion is stagnant. It has never been that way. In the same way that science progresses, similarly so does our social understanding. Blind but slowly

 

[Gatlin]

Im not talking about changing people's opinions necessarily, though opinions are widely copied. In 90 years, almost everyone alive today will be dead. What opinions will emerge?

"Opinions" don't die. That's kind of like saying the homosexuals of today are the last of their kind, and once they die there won't be anymore. Opinions are passed on from generations with children going by what their parents views are (normally).

 

[Pogogo]

Yes they do. What happened to slavery. That was an opinion. What happened to a men only vote? Why did it change? It is literally shameful what people used to think was commonplace and this is the next thing

 

[Gea]

Slavery still exists and wasn't universally popular in America in the first place. Plus sensationalism was used to get popular support from some masses (which marked a change in opinion). Not that I disagree with you about opinions changing... What does this have to do with Brawl again?

 

[Pogogo]

Ok, it was a quick example. A hitler if you will

 

[Gatlin]

Yes they do. What happened to slavery. That was an opinion. What happened to a men only vote? Why did it change?

Slavery wasn't an opinion, it was an act.

Women gained the right to vote after World War 1, after the necessity of total war called on everyone including women to work for the war effort. Women were taken more seriously and many demanded the right to vote and were granted in the 19th amendment.

 

[Pogogo]

it was an opinion that it was right in both cases. As for what it has to do with the OP, you are saying that gay will always have a certain connotation and attitude whereas I am saying it is dynamic.

 

[Lenus Altair]

My issue with this thread is why does a community feel like they can censor what I say because they find it offensive? It would be one thing if the cause was relatively unknown and this was some sort of education on matters, but it isn't. People can clearly distinct the meanings of the word "gay" by context and choose to use the word anyways.

Did I say anything about censoring it? No.

I'm just trying to sway opinions so hopefully people will see that it is derogatory and harmful.

The context that the smash community derives it use of the word gay is from the idea that being gay is wrong, which is bigoted.

So many times I have said this. It is not being directly aimed against you, it is not being used to harm you or your feelings. It is not being used to attack homosexuals. It is only harmful if you treat it as such.

It's harmful to gay youth whether it is intended attack or not. You can't treat that the same way, expect youth to handle it the best way.

It's harmful as an way that labels being gay as wrong despite the spoken intent. It was derived from it meaning to be gay is undesirable. The word has evolved from that derivation and still includes it inherently.

 

[CY]

I'm gay and I'm offended by the way people throw the word gay out there!

Gea you're a pig and a disgrace!

 

[Gea]

I'm just trying to sway opinions so hopefully people will see that it is derogatory and harmful.

This isn't the place for it, and you do not have a popular opinion. If you think there is hostility towards homosexuality in the smash community you have clearly not spent enough time with the Peach boards. You also ignored my point about the original definition of the word.

Find a stronger argument than "words can hurt " and maybe I'll listen to you.

 

[Gatlin]

it was an opinion that it was right in both cases. As for what it has to do with the OP, you are saying that gay will always have a certain connotation and attitude whereas I am saying it is dynamic.

Never did I say gay will always have a certain definition. I said homosexuality will always have a certain definition. I am just saying it is nothing more than a word, it can't hurt you unless you let it.

 

[ADHD]

I'm gay and I call straight people ***s.

 

[CY]

btw Gea is also gay, he has a relationship with this man in the picture. He is just defending the usage of gay.

 

[Pogogo]

I worry about the anger and biases you were talking about before. I want to the change the biases and that can only be achieved by questioning our common thought.

Such as ICs are so gay

 

[Lenus Altair]

This isn't the place for it, and you do not have a popular opinion. If you think there is hostility towards homosexuality in the smash community you have clearly not spent enough time with the Peach boards. You also ignored my point about the original definition of the word.

Find a stronger argument than "words can hurt " and maybe I'll listen to you.

Words can hurt. Denying that is fool hearty. Just look at teen suicides and what a great deal of those stem from. WORDS. That is one of so many examples...

The original definition of gay as happy did not influence the way gay came to mean homosexual in the same sense. Gay, besides happy, could be taken to mean carefree or inhibited. It became a term that started to be used in the context of prostitutes in that context. Then it slid on to gays on breaking sexual inhibitions. It received it negative connotation in that as the lack of sexual inhibition was immoral; That it was wrong.

STRAIGHTS changed the definition, not homosexuals.

All the smash community has done is cut out the homosexual part and goes right to using gay to mean wrong. It may no longer be directed at the act of homosexuality being wrong in this context, but it still carries the weight of implying that it is.

 

[Gea]

Words can hurt. Denying that is fool hearty. Just look at teen suicides and what a great deal of those stem from. WORDS. That is one of so many examples...

The original definition of gay as happy did not influence the way gay came to mean homosexual in the same sense. Gay, besides happy, could be taken to mean carefree or inhibited. It became a term that started to be used in the context of prostitutes in that context. Then it slid on to gays on breaking sexual inhibitions. It received it negative connotation in that as the lack of sexual inhibition was immoral; That it was wrong.

STRAIGHTS changed the definition, not homosexuals.

All the smash community has done is cut out the homosexual part and goes right to using gay to mean wrong. It may no longer be directed at the act of homosexuality being wrong in this context, but it still carries the weight of implying that it is.

You still fail at comprehending that no one person changes definitions and that gay had both a positive AND a negative connotation before it even had anything to do with homosexuality. Homosexuals are the ones choosing to be offended by a word that has multiple legitimate meanings, many of which are older than the homosexual context. Words like "dumb" and "stupid" can hurt people's feelings too. That doesn't mean they don't have legitimate uses in day to day conversation that can be used without hurting anyone's feelings. You are the one choosing to identify yourself by your sexual orientation, not "the straights."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay

The term gay was originally used to refer to feelings of being "carefree", "happy", or "bright and showy"; it had also come to acquire some connotations of "immorality" as early as 1637.[1]

The term's use as a reference to homosexuality may date as early as the late 19th century, but its use gradually increased in the 20th century.[1] In modern English, gay has come to be used as an adjective, and occasionally as a noun, referring to the people, especially to men, and the practices and cultures associated with homosexuality. By the end of the 20th century, the word gay was recommended by major style guides to describe people attracted to members of the same sex.[2][3] At about the same time, a new, pejorative use became prevalent in some parts of the world. In the Anglosphere, this connotation, among younger speakers, has a derisive meaning equivalent to rubbish or stupid (as in "That's so gay."). In this use, the word does not mean "homosexual", so it can be used, for example, to refer to an inanimate object or abstract concept of which one disapproves. This usage can also refer to weakness or unmanliness. When used in this way, the extent to which it still retains connotations of homosexuality has been debated.[4][5]

http://www.google.com/dictionary?aq=f&langpair=en|en&q=gay&hl=en

gay Adjective /gā/

• (of a person, esp. a man) Homosexual
  that friend of yours, is he gay?
• Relating to or used by homosexuals
  feminist, black, and gay perspectives
• Lighthearted and carefree
  Nan had a gay disposition and a very pretty face
• Characterized by cheerfulness or pleasure
  we had a gay old time
• Brightly colored; showy; brilliant
  a gay profusion of purple and pink sweet peas
• Foolish; stupid
  making students wait for the light is kind of a gay rule

Thread over? Thread over.

 

[Pogogo]

It not a matter of offense. I think this is the confusion. It is an opportunity to have people reconsider there stance on gay rights.

If people changed the word and not their opinions what would be the point. It is the argument itself that is important


And people should stop saying the smash community did anything to the word. This use is commonplace

 

[Gea]

It not a matter of offense. I think this is the confusion. It is an opportunity to have people reconsider there stance on gay rights

What the **** is this? Brawl is not a game about political movements involving civil rights for homosexuals. Take it somewhere more appropriate while I will continue to call things like planking gay, because that is within acceptable usage of the word.

Guys quit using "salty" as something negative. My uncle works for Morton!

 

[FIREL]

Lots of words said today have countless meanings.

 

[Pogogo]

Why not here? If there was an officially sanctioned place, only supporters would join. Plus this is the thread's intent. To discuss

 

[Gea]

There is literally nothing worthwhile to discuss, and there is the debate hall and the pool room and regional socials he can go to if he feels like he is being singled out. This has nothing to do with Brawl at all.

 

[Pogogo]

Maybe nothing to do with brawl but things worthwhile to discuss.

 

[Zankoku]

Maybe nothing to do with brawl but things worthwhile to discuss.

Serious question, are you trolling? This is the General Brawl Discussion, not the Everything That Might Be Worth Discussion. This thread will remain open only as long as discussion in it pertains to Brawl. If you would like to attack general issues in life, I suggest you visit the Debate Hall.

 

[Lenus Altair]

You still fail at comprehending that no one person changes definitions and that gay had both a positive AND a negative connotation before it even had anything to do with homosexuality. Homosexuals are the ones choosing to be offended by a word that has multiple legitimate meanings,

Thread over? Thread over.

No.

Fact of the matter is, Gay was turned into a term that was INTENDED to be use to offend homosexuals. Plan and simple.

I fully comprehend that Gay has multiple meanings, past and present. The present definitions still associate gay as being wrong. Just because your referring to something else as being wrong when using the term doesn't negate that.

 

[frostymm]

This thread is very black.

 

[Gea]

If I am not using it as hate-speech, it isn't hate speech. Go look up arguments about women vs womyn, it is a good parallel to your "argument." You want to be treated equally? Deal with it.

 

[frostymm]

Awwww I got a PM saying that I may be spamming T.T I was just trying to make the OP feel better by not using the term they dislike. I'm not sure what they have against gay people but whatever >.>...

 

[Lenus Altair]

If I am not using it as hate-speech, it isn't hate speech. Go look up arguments about women vs womyn, it is a good parallel to your "argument." You want to be treated equally? Deal with it.

So if I started calling my friends N@ggas and saying things I didn't like were jewish despite having no ill will toward Blacks or those of Jewish decent that would be ok? Is that a fair parallel?

 

[frostymm]

I'm white and I call my friends N@gga's. It's perfectly okay! =D

 

[Gea]

Yes. Although they have less clear ulterior meanings, they are very much used in other contexts.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Serious question, are you trolling? This is the General Brawl Discussion, not the Everything That Might Be Worth Discussion. This thread will remain open only as long as discussion in it pertains to Brawl. If you would like to attack general issues in life, I suggest you visit the Debate Hall.

Well, this is supposed to be more about whether the language is acceptable in tournament and detrimental to the community.

 

[camerino1]

It's all in context of your own personal beliefs and thoughts. You have a very strong advertion to it being used, whereas someone like Gea isn't as caring because he himself doesn't take offence. Now then, I'm going to say that it could hurt someone who was unsure of themselves and how they are or were just trying to come out... I know it's very painful. If someone uses it in a "your wall of pain with Wario is gay" manner, I'm gonna laugh. If someone says "You are so gay it's stupid because you just did that" I may hurt them. It's all about how you take it as a person

 

[bleyva]

what about moves that are pretty obviously designed to be gay? like luigi's sideB, his animation is SO kinda gay. and Pit, Marth lol i mean come on. sheik, goes without sayin.