Gay!

[Gea]

You into mullets, Teran?

 

[Teran]

Not really but I'll make do with a mulleted douchebag over getting shanked 50 times.

 

[J00sh]

Early last year in Australia on a comedic television show, as part of a skit some Indian doctors dressed up like the Jackson 5 and painted their faces black. There was worldwide outcry at what a racist nation Australia was and how offensive the skit was. Many Americans commented on how we were promoting oppression of black people by dressing up as them and acting silly. The people doing the skit merely meant to parody the Jackson 5 while acting like louts. To them, it was more about the band and not the fact that their skin was dark. The people painted their faces black so as to be immediately identifiable as the Jackson 5. The majority of Australians saw no offence with the skit, it was rather foreigners' opinions which labelled this sketch as racist. Now just because those doing the skit didn't mean it to be offensive or racist, DOESN'T MEAN IT WASN'T.

The fact is that even though it wasn't offensive to Australians., it was offensive to Americans and so it should have happened. So yes, it is a reasonable expectation that when you go to a public arena (such as a smash tournament) you should edit/control what you say especially if the context could be construed as derogatory.

 

[Teran]

You know I love how the Americans call everyone racist when they were one of the last to give up slavery and have organisations like the KKK.

It's kinda mean.

In fact, I think Americans are the people who give a **** the most about prejudice all over the media yet the people are probably the biggest culprits in either a blatant, institutional, or blanketed sense.

Other countries managed to move forward pretty quickly by simply NOT GIVING A ****

 

[Gea]

It goes back to "people want to be offended." Should that skit have ever made the news? No. Did it boost ratings? Probably. Controversy is attention.

 

[Spelt]

If everyone would just learn to hate each other equally we could get over all of this racism business.

 

[Teran]

So how many people in this thread who are upset are actually gay?

Because I think I'm more offended that straight people are getting offended for me, it's kinda insulting. It makes me look bad.

 

[Gea]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQFEY9RIRJA

 

[Krystedez]

You're not "expected" to recognize it as a symbol of gay pride. However, the fact that you seem to be disturbed by said recognition, and the suggestion that this somehow taints your childhood passion for art and science (if I read you correctly), is another thing entirely. Why would it matter that it's a symbol of gay pride if you accepted homosexuality's legitimacy?

I'm not upset by rain-induced rainbows now that it has acquired a more recent symbolism in the same way that I don't think any differently of (nor am I disturbed by) a pickup truck despite its being marketed as the pinnacle of manliness.

I don't think you got my point, I was making a point to Lenus, the original poster and wanted his response as well.

I'm expected by popular pop culture and references to historical and societal events to draw the conclusion that if someone or something wearing or displaying or showing off a rainbow, it must mean that they're homosexual or condone homosexuality, neither of which I consider about myself. This also breaks off my options of being able to have said graphics in my art or clothing without getting at the very least a question of my sexuality; at worst a pass.

That's why I have a problem with it, not so much the gay community or whatever. I'm not even remotely upset by the rainbows, but so much that people use it in such a way. That's essentially what this topic was talking about, was context, but mine is in a different situation, a real situation, not "omg video game fighting character X when played by Y has such gay strats" and then someone is hurt over it.

 

[Lenus Altair]

So how many people in this thread who are upset are actually gay?

Besides me? At least two others that have outright said it. Some others who lean more on my side of the debate have not be so explicit.

 

[Teran]

I don't mean to be rude but are you a top or bottom?

 

[MrEh]

South park is intentionally inflammatory and does not cover a given topic in much depth. It pokes fun at an issue to express a point of view often in lue of another. It is far from a topic ender.

Also, Teran is hilarious.

 

[Nicknyte]

I come back for the Teran.

 

[NickRiddle]

I'm sorry, but using the word gay to mean stupid/annoying/cheap is not okay. Regardless of your intent , you are associating a people with the negative implications of something being cheap.

Let me make this example. The word 'jew' and 'jewish' was often used a while ago to refer to 'cheap' or 'unfair'. Today as a regular society we now realise how ridiculous and offensive it is to refer to something or someone as 'jewish' because of the way they handle money.

Another parallel? Early last year in Australia on a comedic television show, as part of a skit some Indian doctors dressed up like the Jackson 5 and painted their faces black. There was worldwide outcry at what a racist nation Australia was and how offensive the skit was. Many Americans commented on how we were promoting oppression of black people by dressing up as them and acting silly. The people doing the skit merely meant to parody the Jackson 5 while acting like louts. To them, it was more about the band and not the fact that their skin was dark. The people painted their faces black so as to be immediately identifiable as the Jackson 5. The majority of Australians saw no offence with the skit, it was rather foreigners' opinions which labelled this sketch as racist. Now just because those doing the skit didn't mean it to be offensive or racist, DOESN'T MEAN IT WASN'T.

To claim that using a word like gay in "a different context" and it not reflecting negatively at all on gay people as a whole is complete and utter bull. Also, saying "it's so ingrained in the way people speak it shouldn't have to be changed" is crap too. Let me take the word "******" as another example. It was once culturally/socially accepted to refer to someone as a "******" does that mean that people brought up in the 60s and 70s should still be able to refer to black people as "******s"?

1. No, we are associating a WORD with cheap/unfair. The homosexual Peach player in my state uses the word gay in the same way we do, and does not find if offensive.

2. People still say that. I am Jewish, and I find it funny.

3. All I read was: Look! Stupid people took things too far because they're stupid! NOW YOU GUYS KNOW THAT STUPID PEOPLE CARE MORE THAN SMART PEOPLE!

4. Okay, this is... ********. (See? I'm not referring to the mentally handicapped!) People use the word nigg@/****** all the ****ing time. Generally... it's used to talk about a friend.
Also, if I use the word gay, talking about somebody who is carefree, am I also being derogatory if they happen to be homosexual too?


Holy ****, this thread is full of buff-hurt people.
Want to know when a word stops being offensive?
When everybody... stop taking it offensively.



By the way, just throwing this out there.
http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=198
That'd probably be a better place to post something like this.

 

[Teran]

Also heads up, try to relate this more to the subject of it being in the Brawl community. Obviously the nature of the discussion will take it off course somewhat, but going on complete tangents for extended periods will get this thread locked.

And I don't want that to happen because I'm a big warm fuzzy ***got.

Well actually I'm not big, I'm 5'9 and 134lb but my epowers make me STRONG

 

[Lenus Altair]

I don't think you got my point, I was making a point to Lenus, the original poster and wanted his response as well.

I just want to say having seen you on the Pit boards for a long time I respect you. You will have a response from me even if we don't end up agreeing.

I'm expected by popular pop culture and references to historical and societal events to draw the conclusion that if someone or something wearing or displaying or showing off a rainbow, it must mean that they're homosexual or condone homosexuality, neither of which I consider about myself. This also breaks off my options of being able to have said graphics in my art or clothing without getting at the very least a question of my sexuality; at worst a pass.

It is true that the rainbow in general has been a symbol taken by pop culture and turned into a symbol representing the LGBT community. I have used it as well to identify with that community and to make that connection beyond obvious with my signature, specifically using a texture, and art piece that was your creation without knowing it was yours or your feelings.

I have to ask though how do you feel when someone makes a pass at you or question your orientation? Why does it bother you?

That's why I have a problem with it, not so much the gay community or whatever. I'm not even remotely upset by the rainbows, but so much that people use it in such a way. That's essentially what this topic was talking about, was context, but mine is in a different situation, a real situation, not "omg video game fighting character X when played by Y has such gay strats" and then someone is hurt over it.

You are right to say that the situation is more personal. Since it's if your texture, your art, that I have used in my signature in this new context if you ask me to I will remove it.

As for your implication that the use of the word gay is not "real", I have to disagree. Yours is indeed more personal in that it is something that only would effect you as your piece of art. However, the acting of taking the the derogatory term gay, as in "stop being gay" where gay = wrong because being homosexual = wrong, and changing it to simply refer to something as wrong and having it be visible on average every other page of this board is something that does effect a great number of people in negative ways for one reason or another.

I don't mean to be rude but are you a top or bottom?

I don't answer that question for casual purposes let alone a group debate.

 

[Teran]

Wow gee aren't we all coy... >.>

Really I only asked that because I had an innocent thesis, honest. :3c

 

[Lenus Altair]

Wow gee aren't we all coy... >.>

Really I only asked that because I had an innocent thesis, honest. :3c

I didn't think you were asking to try to use it poorly, however it's not even something I would casually talk about even with most friends. Sorry.

 

[Nicknyte]

So yer a Bottom right? :3

Teran, I know it applies to the Brawl community, but, after reading this, it definately has revalance in the smash community in partic. Its all good.

 

[Teran]

Well Smash Brawl whatever just don't stray too far away.

 

[EmperorB-rad2kj]

I have a feeling this topic will eventually kill itself off. It's just one of those things that people just won't be able to agree on like many other things. Opinions are too mixed to come to such a simple conclusion so quickly

 

[J00sh]

I did relate it to smash with this bit

The fact is that even though it wasn't offensive to Australians., it was offensive to Americans and so it should have happened. So yes, it is a reasonable expectation that when you go to a public arena (such as a smash tournament) you should edit/control what you say especially if the context could be construed as derogatory.

Also, if you must know I am gay, but I don't find how that is relevant to the conversation as I can be equally offended if my brother/sister/friend is gay and mad at the way they are being treated.

What you do when alone with your friends is your business, but in a public place (such as on site in a forum or at a smash tournament) it is not okay to speak with language that you know directly offends/alienates certain people.


People misconstrue my viewpoint. Although I am don't take immediate offence at the word being used, it doesn't mean it's ok and tbh, I shouldn't have to put up with it. I can shrug it off and turn the other cheek but I've had friends who've been driven to the edge of suicide not because of explicit targeting, but by the everyday attitude that gay is bad thing to be associated with bad feelings/actions.

EDIT:

No, we are associating a WORD with cheap/unfair. The homosexual Peach player in my state uses the word gay in the same way we do, and does not find if offensive

It is ridiculous to think that it's "just a word" and can't do anything. The rate of teen suicides among gays is incredibly larger than that of straight teens. The word which you are so vehemently defending the right to use in a negative context refers to a people first and foremost (don't give me that "Nah, it means happy or jolly" crap. In today's society it is never used in that way so I call BS) . By then giving it negative connotations, you are claiming that it's something undesirable to be gay, which is discriminatory, bigoted and unfair.

2. People still say that. I am Jewish, and I find it funny.

4. Okay, this is... ********. (See? I'm not referring to the mentally handicapped!) People use the word nigg@/****** all the ****ing time. Generally... it's used to talk about a friend.
Also, if I use the word gay, talking about somebody who is carefree, am I also being derogatory if they happen to be homosexual too?

I'm happy for you that you and your friends can take it as just tongue in cheek, feel free to talk that way when you're by yourselves. However, when in a public forum you shouldn't use language that you know can be taken in a discriminatory/oppressive way. I'm not asking you to change how you are with all your friends, just how you are in a public place around people who may and probably might be offended by it.

 

[황미영]

In the end someone will call a tactic gay and we will see this

 

[4nace]

What does this have to do with SUPER SMASH BROTHERS BRAWL?

 

[Derkis]

What you do when alone with your friends is your business, but in a public place (such as on site in a forum or at a smash tournament) it is not okay to speak with language that you know directly offends/alienates certain people.

This, basically, was the thrust of my argument despite how unintentionally sidetracked it got.

Your intentions and presumed context don't matter, because a stranger has no way to know what they are. In the same manner, you can't know how every individual will react to your words. So your best alternatives are either to play it safe and not use the word, since the potential damage you cause far outweighs the minor inconvenience of erasing a word from your vocabulary, or to presume that nobody has any right to be offended because it you personally are unaffected.

 

[Starscream]

It's pretty juvenile, but so is majority of the Smash community (or any video game community for that matter). Good luck trying to change people's minds though. Just from reading the first 2 pages it looks like it's going to be an uphill battle for sure.

 

[Krystedez]

I just want to say having seen you on the Pit boards for a long time I respect you. You will have a response from me even if we don't end up agreeing.

I really appreciate your response, it was just the kind I was hoping for. Please don't feel obligated to read all of this any time soon I post quite a lot, and it's all very quaint and civil. I have no harsh feelings against anyone about this.

I have to ask though how do you feel when someone makes a pass at you or question your orientation? Why does it bother you?

It bothers me because then I'm in that position now to be either a comfort to them because they are a friend or someone I just met that I appreciate the company of, and the awkwardness of it.

In fact, one time I met someone from deviantart, and he noticed I had a purple triangle in my signature on that site (I liked to decorate/personalize my online avatars and signatures and such). I never knew that it was a pride symbol. I was like, 14. This guy posted a furry pinup picture that disgraced my screen for but a few seconds before I asked him "what the !@#$ is your problem?" and promptly closed the window. Later he asked me "I thought you were gay?" because of that symbol and a lot of my colorful art. . .

Maybe you can see I've had an issue with homosexual pride symbols and expectations from society when it comes to this sorta matter, and I've no less been expected from the smash community to be accepting or even involved; is it because I AM in the smash community? Is it because I wear certain clothes or put my hair up in a pony tail? It's confusing enough to where I just accept it and move on, but it doesn't mean I don't get a little frustrated at myself and others.

You are right to say that the situation is more personal. Since it's if your texture, your art, that I have used in my signature in this new context if you ask me to I will remove it.

I won't ask you to remove it, I was honestly flattered that someone liked the texture enough to use it as an ava/sig and such. It would honestly not bother me any moreso if you had put simply a rainbow there with nothing else and your signature quote. I was just mentioning it because of the rainbow parts, and relating to the fact of my relationship to the rainbow.

I'm accepting of the homosexual community, but just like that community not being accepting of certain elements of socieity, so am I. You just don't like what you just don't like, and like you with the word gay, I do not like the connotation that rainbows have been given today. I won't ask you or anyone else to stop showing the colors as your flag of pride, but I, like you, want you to know how it makes me feel.

If you displayed the rainbow just simply because it was a beautiful visual than I wouldn't have an issue with it, because it wouldn't contribute to the widely held belief that "RAINBOWS = GAY". But that's how you associate and work with those who of your sexuality. And I would hate to be the proponent to try to break that convenience from you. It's just...why couldn't gay pride just be that triangle? How about a cowbell? What about a psychedelic green blue and red bunny rabbit? (lol ) I guess I'm just complaining about the choice of symbols . . .

As for your implication that the use of the word gay is not "real", I have to disagree. Yours is indeed more personal in that it is something that only would effect you as your piece of art. However, the acting of taking the the derogatory term gay, as in "stop being gay" where gay = wrong because being homosexual = wrong, and changing it to simply refer to something as wrong and having it be visible on average every other page of this board is something that does effect a great number of people in negative ways for one reason or another.

It effects me far greater than simply being a peace of art. A derogatory term usage of the word gay does not out weigh the actual implications of a beautiful representation of both science and religion being used throughout recent times as PRIDE for homosexuals, when it should simply be appreciated and not used as an implication that someone is gay because of it.

Let's say I love the color green. Green is awesome. It's the best color in the world. It represents fertility, plants, grass, the earth, whatever! But get this, an activist group turns it's meaning into something else, whether or not it's good for you or bad for you or it's preference, and then everyone has to deal with it because it becomes the social impasse of the year to disagree with otherwise. I now have to deal with it, and be pointed as "oh, you're wearing/doing something with/showing off green, you must be __________"

That's all. I think. Sorry for the long post again Forgive me...

EDIT: Goin to bed now. Got a long day tomorrow.

 

[Seikend]

Ughhh this topic is still going. Ceebs reading it all.

I think you're a little off. Gay just doesn't also "happen" to mean homosexual. The reason why the word Gay is in the context of my given definition is because the Belief the tactic is wrong. Because the people who first started using the term that way believed homosexuality is wrong. "Planking is gay, wrong or broken, like homosexuals."

I agree that the majority of the people on these boards arn't trying to attack homosexuals in its usage, but does that take away from the fact there is bigotry behind the use of the word that way?

Right, the term originated from when homosexuality was considered wrong. There was bigotry behind the word. Whilst the term remains in culture due to that bigotry, it no longer (within the Brawl community) has that intent behind it.

So instead of considering the user's intent of the word, you're considering the historical context? You're deliberately misinterpreting what the person is saying, and being offended? I'm not sure why the user of the word is responsible for that.

Let's try another angle. How do you think people around you feel when you drop the word? Have you thought about those who are still coming to terms with there sexual identity?

Frownyface. I'm not sure why people need to seek approval of their sexuality from other people, and especially gamers. Why does it matter how other people feel about it? If you have no intent to **** them, then your sexual preference has no importance. And I don't think you go to a brawl tournament looking for sex.

Surely instead of teaching "new gays" that being gay is good, and wonderful, and that everyone should be accepting of them, we should teach them to simply be accepting of themself? Because it's entirely irrelevant how other people feel about it anyway: it doesn't make being gay any less valid.


TL;DR

People aren't being bigoted in the smash community when they use the word gay. Stop misinterpreting what they're saying.

You shouldn't care about how others feel abour your sexuality anyway.

Just sounds like a lot of "waaaaaaah" to me.



So I only read page 1, but the rest of the thread is just the same stuff over and over again, right? Okay.

 

[J00sh]

Ughhh this topic is still going. Ceebs reading it all.



Right, the term originated from when homosexuality was considered wrong. There was bigotry behind the word. Whilst the term remains in culture due to that bigotry, it no longer (within the Brawl community) has that intent behind it.

So instead of considering the user's intent of the word, you're considering the historical context? You're deliberately misinterpreting what the person is saying, and being offended? I'm not sure why the user of the word is responsible for that.



Frownyface. I'm not sure why people need to seek approval of their sexuality from other people, and especially gamers. Why does it matter how other people feel about it? If you have no intent to **** them, then your sexual preference has no importance. And I don't think you go to a brawl tournament looking for sex.

Surely instead of teaching "new gays" that being gay is good, and wonderful, and that everyone should be accepting of them, we should teach them to simply be accepting of themself? Because it's entirely irrelevant how other people feel about it anyway: it doesn't make being gay any less valid.


TL;DR

People aren't being bigoted in the smash community when they use the word gay. Stop misinterpreting what they're saying.

You shouldn't care about how others feel abour your sexuality anyway.

Just sounds like a lot of "waaaaaaah" to me.



So I only read page 1, but the rest of the thread is just the same stuff over and over again, right? Okay.

I'm gonna quote myself in response to this (since you prolly haven't read it the first time anyway...)

What you do when alone with your friends is your business, but in a public place (such as on site in a forum or at a smash tournament) it is not okay to speak with language that you know directly offends/alienates certain people.

 

[Seikend]

I'm offended by people talking about lives in Brawl. They're stocks. Don't imply you're killing people.

I'm also offended by the use of the letter E. Don't use it anymore.




looool.

Just because language might offend some people doesn't justify not using it.

"So instead of considering the user's intent of the word, you're considering the historical context? You're deliberately misinterpreting what the person is saying, and being offended? I'm not sure why the user of the word is responsible for that."

 

[J00sh]

I'm offended by people talking about lives in Brawl. They're stocks. Don't imply you're killing people.

I'm also offended by the use of the letter E. Don't use it anymore.




looool.

Just because language might offend some people doesn't justify not using it.

"So instead of considering the user's intent of the word, you're considering the historical context? You're deliberately misinterpreting what the person is saying, and being offended? I'm not sure why the user of the word is responsible for that."

Again I'm gonna quote myself. (It would be easier if you just read the thread).

Early last year in Australia on a comedic television show, as part of a skit some Indian doctors dressed up like the Jackson 5 and painted their faces black. There was worldwide outcry at what a racist nation Australia was and how offensive the skit was. Many Americans commented on how we were promoting oppression of black people by dressing up as them and acting silly. The people doing the skit merely meant to parody the Jackson 5 while acting like louts. To them, it was more about the band and not the fact that their skin was dark. The people painted their faces black so as to be immediately identifiable as the Jackson 5. The majority of Australians saw no offence with the skit, it was rather foreigners' opinions which labelled this sketch as racist. Now just because those doing the skit didn't mean it to be offensive or racist, DOESN'T MEAN IT WASN'T.

Just because you don't INTEND something to be mean/hurtful doesn't mean it isn't. do what you want with your friends, but in a public place you shouldn't use language that you know will offend people.

Another example? My family and I recently went to America and we spent some time in South Carolina. In Australia, the phrase " god damn it" is on the same level with "gosh", "darn" or "that sucks". However, when my younger brother used this phrase in the south he was immediately informed of its context in the south and how it was an offensive term. Regardless of our intent and what we mean by it, it was something rude/offensive to the people we were staying near. So, we monitored our language while we were there and made an effort not to use that phrase (even though it is somewhat instinct [that's what we say when we don't want to swear]) It's not too much to ask you to not use a word in that manner when it obviously offends people who you are with.

 

[Seikend]

Right, so it's not down to the person's intent, but is open to interpretation, as presented by this blackface case. Okay.


Some people might feel the use of the word "gay" is homophobic, some don't. It all depends on how you interpret the term.

Are you claiming that your interpretation of the word gay trumps everyone elses? Because it really doesn't. You don't hold the truth. You have an opinion, just like everyone else.

This comes down to whoever owns the site (for the site) and TOs for tournaments.

I'm not sure about the site's policy on the matter, but as far as I'm aware, most TOs don't care about the term. You don't like the term to the extent that you can't enjoy a tournament? Fine, don't go. Show your hatred of the term by not showing up. Maybe if enough people agree with you, TOs will be forced to ban the term.

But don't act like your interpretation of the word "gay" is somehow superior to ours, and that we should all stop using the term. Be offended by it if you want. That's cool. Express it. But don't expect anything to change. Don't expect anything to come out of this thread. People offended by this are a severe minority and your "offense" won't be catered to.

 

[J00sh]

Right, so it's not down to the person's intent, but is open to interpretation, as presented by this blackface case. Okay.


Some people might feel the use of the word "gay" is homophobic, some don't. It all depends on how you interpret the term.

Are you claiming that your interpretation of the word gay trumps everyone elses? Because it really doesn't. You don't hold the truth. You have an opinion, just like everyone else.

This comes down to whoever owns the site (for the site) and TOs for tournaments.

I'm not sure about the site's policy on the matter, but as far as I'm aware, most TOs don't care about the term. You don't like the term to the extent that you can't enjoy a tournament? Fine, don't go. Show your hatred of the term by not showing up. Maybe if enough people agree with you, TOs will be forced to ban the term.

But don't act like your interpretation of the word "gay" is somehow superior to ours, and that we should all stop using the term. Be offended by it if you want. That's cool. Express it. But don't expect anything to change. Don't expect anything to come out of this thread. People offended by this are a severe minority and your "offense" won't be catered to.

Americans in Australia are a severe minority yet the Australian public had to deal with it and the people who made the skit had to publicly apologise.

You can claim that your interpretation of the word gay is just as valid as anyone else's but the truth is, you're interpreting the term to be something negative. Inadvertently, you associate this negative thing with the word gay. You don't even realise you're doing it, but you're conditioning the word and all the other meanings it has to mean "wrong/cheap/unfair/immoral".

And for you to just say "deal with it" is like me telling women that they're not going to get the same wages as men and they should just "deal with it", or that people with darker skin should get treated worse than those with lighter skin and they should just "deal with it" or that being a person of Jewish faith means their family deserve to be killed in concentration camps and they should just "deal with it".

No one should have to deal with being bullied/discriminated against and when you use the word with a negative context, regardless of what you mean by it, you are bullying people who are homosexually oriented.

I can't believe people are trying to justify the use of a word in such a context when it obviously is so hurtful to so many people. Many gay people act blasé about the word because they don't want to look like a wuss/be looked at differently/cause extra trouble the truth in the matter is, it's not nice and it shouldn't be tolerated in a community (such as smash) that wants to be as accepting of other people as possible.

 

[Seikend]

Americans in Australia are a severe minority yet the Australian public had to deal with it and the people who made the skit had to publicly apologise.

You can claim that your interpretation of the word gay is just as valid as anyone else's but the truth is, you're interpreting the term to be something negative. Inadvertently, you associate this negative thing with the word gay. You don't even realise you're doing it, but you're conditioning the word and all the other meanings it has to mean "wrong/cheap/unfair/immoral".

And for you to just say "deal with it" is like me telling women that they're not going to get the same wages as men and they should just "deal with it", or that people with darker skin should get treated worse than those with lighter skin and they should just "deal with it" or that being a person of Jewish faith means their family deserve to be killed in concentration camps and they should just "deal with it".

No one should have to deal with being bullied/discriminated against and when you use the word with a negative context, regardless of what you mean by it, you are bullying people who are homosexually oriented.

I can't believe people are trying to justify the use of a word in such a context when it obviously is so hurtful to so many people. Many gay people act blasé about the word because they don't want to look like a wuss/be looked at differently/cause extra trouble the truth in the matter is, it's not nice and it shouldn't be tolerated in a community (such as smash) that wants to be as accepting of other people as possible.

Okay, let's accept that it's subconsciously making that connection. Where's the issue? It's only a thought. There's no action behind it. Or am I bullying people with my thoughts?

looool knew you'd bring up wages etc.

That's an entirely different matter. A difference in wages due to gender is UNLAWFUL. 'subconsciously implying negative connotations to being gay' isn't. I'm telling you to deal with being offended about someone's words, not unlawful discrimination based on physical things. Or do you want to make this a crime?

I'm also glad that you know how all gay people feel on the matter. Obviously I don't actually believe what I'm saying, I just don't want to cause trouble. Give me a break. What you're saying is far worse than people saying "gay". "Gay people must be offended by this, they're just too worried about what people think about them." My word, really? Not every gay person is so caught up in how they're percieved bro.

I don't take a hissy fit whenever a conservative christian group takes an anti-gay stance, I don't care when I overhear people being scared of "them gays", and I'm not in the least bit bothered by smashers subconsciously implying negative connotations to being gay.

The smash community isn't interested in catering to everyone. The smash community is interested in catering to the smash community.

 

[J00sh]

Okay, let's accept that it's subconsciously making that connection. Where's the issue? It's only a thought. There's no action behind it. Or am I bullying people with my thoughts?

looool knew you'd bring up wages etc.

That's an entirely different matter. A difference in wages due to gender is UNLAWFUL. 'subconsciously implying negative connotations to being gay' isn't. I'm telling you to deal with being offended about someone's words, not unlawful discrimination based on physical things. Or do you want to make this a crime?

I'm also glad that you know how all gay people feel on the matter. Obviously I don't actually believe what I'm saying, I just don't want to cause trouble. Give me a break. What you're saying is far worse than people saying "gay". "Gay people must be offended by this, they're just too worried about what people think about them." My word, really? Not every gay person is so caught up in how they're percieved bro.

I don't take a hissy fit whenever a conservative christian group takes an anti-gay stance, I don't care when I overhear people being scared of "them gays", and I'm not in the least bit bothered by smashers subconsciously implying negative connotations to being gay.

The smash community isn't interested in catering to everyone. The smash community is interested in catering to the smash community.

Please point out in my post where I said "all gays fell this way". I merely mentioned that many people are offended by the use of the word gay in this way.

Let me put it this way, if I went and called a black person an "N-word" it would be considered offensive no? And I could go to jail for that yeah? Does that mean black people should deal with being called an "N-word"?

The rest of your post just shows a bigoted attitude. What you're basically saying is, it doesn't offend me when people refer to others in a bad way (just as it doesn't offend me when people call black people an "N-word") so it's ok for that to happen.

The smash community does not need to cater to everyone, but it does need to realise that the way they are using the word gay in such a negative context is hurtful/offensive/bullying regardless of what they perceive it to be.

My principal once told me off in primary school because I was playing a game with a kid and he didn't like it. He told me I was bullying the kid. I said we were merely playing a game (which I thought we were and I didn't mean to upset the other kid). What he said next has stayed with me for the rest of my life; "It doesn't matter what you thought you were doing, what you were actually doing was bullying that kid. It's only a joke and a game if both people think so."

 

[Seikend]

Please point out in my post where I said "all gays fell this way". I merely mentioned that many people are offended by the use of the word gay in this way.

Please, show proof that most gay people feel offended by the use of the word gay in this way, but are too unwilling to express it because they don't want to look like a wuss/be looked at differently/cause extra trouble.

Seems like you pulled it out of nowhere. I'm not sure how you've managed to read their minds and thought process.

Let me put it this way, if I went and called a black person an "N-word" it would be considered offensive no? And I could go to jail for that yeah? Does that mean black people should deal with being called an "N-word"?

Depends on the context. If you're being inprisoned just for the use of the word then that's bs. If you were saying ****** as part of a malicious action, then yeah. If black people don't want to hear it then stop talking to the person saying it. Not difficult.

The rest of your post just shows a bigoted attitude. What you're basically saying is, it doesn't offend me when people refer to others in a bad way (just as it doesn't offend me when people call black people an "N-word") so it's ok for that to happen.

Uhh what. The rest was retorting your belief that gays are worried about how people feel percieve them. I don't care.

But yeah, people should be allowed to say racist things. You either deal with it, or avoid it.

The smash community does not need to cater to everyone, but it does need to realise that the way they are using the word gay in such a negative context is hurtful/offensive/bullying regardless of what they perceive it to be.

Because obviously you hold the truth on the matter, and we're just perceiving it incorrectly. looooool. You BELIEVE it's in a negative context. You don't KNOW. You are not an authority on the matter.

My principal once told me off in primary school because I was playing a game with a kid and he didn't like it. He told me I was bullying the kid. I said we were merely playing a game (which I thought we were and I didn't mean to upset the other kid). What he said next has stayed with me for the rest of my life; "It doesn't matter what you thought you were doing, what you were actually doing was bullying that kid. It's only a joke and a game if both people think so."

Once again,the authority on the matter is the principal. The authority here is smashboards and TOs.


Do you even know what bigot means? "A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs"

I don't see how I'm being bigoted at all. I'm the exact opposite. I'm saying that I believe being gay is fine, but I'm allowing people who disagree to share their view on the matter. I'm tolerant of homophobic people.

You, on the other hand are so devoted to your idea that this is homophobic, that you refuse to consider the possibility that you only have an opinion, just like everyone else. We are wrong in the matter, and what we're doing should not be tolerated.

I'm bigoted? Nou.


If you refuse to accept that this being homophobic is just a belief and not fact, then we're going to go nowhere. I'm done.

 

[abcool]

Please point out in my post where I said "all gays fell this way". I merely mentioned that many people are offended by the use of the word gay in this way.

Let me put it this way, if I went and called a black person an "N-word" it would be considered offensive no? And I could go to jail for that yeah? Does that mean black people should deal with being called an "N-word"?

The rest of your post just shows a bigoted attitude. What you're basically saying is, it doesn't offend me when people refer to others in a bad way (just as it doesn't offend me when people call black people an "N-word") so it's ok for that to happen.

The smash community does not need to cater to everyone, but it does need to realise that the way they are using the word gay in such a negative context is hurtful/offensive/bullying regardless of what they perceive it to be.

My principal once told me off in primary school because I was playing a game with a kid and he didn't like it. He told me I was bullying the kid. I said we were merely playing a game (which I thought we were and I didn't mean to upset the other kid). What he said next has stayed with me for the rest of my life; "It doesn't matter what you thought you were doing, what you were actually doing was bullying that kid. It's only a joke and a game if both people think so."

I really hate getting into these kind of debates, but, why do you always compare the N-word to Gay. They're both bad, but one thing that you're missing is, what if you're *Black and Gay* that person would get twice the damage because one word is derogatory to a RACE and the other to a group of persons from all races. Negro also means black in some languages does that make it bad when we know the context of which the word is being used in?

I say stop comparing the N-word to gay because although they both carry the same negative connotation, only one race gets affected for being BOTH instead of all races. Negro also has other meanings. I am not gay, but i am black and when i was in the states an hispanic person called me the N-word and honestly i could careless because it's just a word. It's only as bad as you take it to be. (Btw he was calling all hispanic ppl sp** aswell..he was joking)

Also to answer the guy asking *why it's ok for black ppl to call other black ppl the N-word*. It is because it carries no weight when we say it. I could imagine it's the same as if one fat person or ppl of similar dislikes or likes tease eachother of the same flaw or what they consider a flaw. That is why if someone dies and you're sad, it brings comfort to know someone else of similar experience been through what you did and if they can over come it, well then so can you.

 

[Lenus Altair]

That's all. I think. Sorry for the long post again Forgive me...

Your post was fine. The only thing I'd like to say is the the use of the word gay negatively has greater implications as well, in that an entire group of people are wrong and undesirable and should be avoided or separated (if not worse.)

Ughhh this topic is still going. Ceebs reading it all.



Right, the term originated from when homosexuality was considered wrong. There was bigotry behind the word. Whilst the term remains in culture due to that bigotry, it no longer (within the Brawl community) has that intent behind it.

So instead of considering the user's intent of the word, you're considering the historical context? You're deliberately misinterpreting what the person is saying, and being offended? I'm not sure why the user of the word is responsible for that.

There is no misinterpretation. The word as used by the brawl community implies an act as wrong. The reason why that term is used that way is from the belief that Homosexuality is wrong. Your intent in saying it may only be to label a specific act as wrong, but it still references the parallel "because homosexuality is wrong." The evolution of the word doesn't erase that connection, just expands on it.

You can unintentional do harm. Again, murder and manslaughter. Murder has intent, manslaughter does not. You may not of intended to cause harm if you committed manslaughter, but you still did.

Frownyface. I'm not sure why people need to seek approval of their sexuality from other people, and especially gamers.

What distinguishes gamers?

Why does it matter how other people feel about it?

Imagine a world where everyone disregarded how each other felt. Have fun.

If you have no intent to **** them, then your sexual preference has no importance. And I don't think you go to a brawl tournament looking for sex.

Irrelevant

Surely instead of teaching "new gays" that being gay is good, and wonderful, and that everyone should be accepting of them, we should teach them to simply be accepting of themself?

Yup, but when People use the word gay casually to mean wrong, you ostracize those whose are still struggling with that.

Because it's entirely irrelevant how other people feel about it anyway: it doesn't make being gay any less valid.

Correct. But why add to net weight of societal pressures that imply homosexuality is wrong?

People aren't being bigoted in the smash community when they use the word gay. Stop misinterpreting what they're saying.

Their intent isn't bigoted, but I've already discussed intent.

I'm offended by people talking about lives in Brawl. They're stocks. Don't imply you're killing people.

I'm also offended by the use of the letter E. Don't use it anymore.

Using the word lives directly relates to the taking of stocks as you are killing in Brawl. Using the word gay to implicate something is wrong does not because homosexuality is not wrong (or at least that is what a number of people believe.)

Also, bad example is bad.

Just because language might offend some people doesn't justify not using it.

Then what if anything does?

But don't act like your interpretation of the word "gay" is somehow superior to ours, and that we should all stop using the term. Be offended by it if you want. That's cool. Express it. But don't expect anything to change. Don't expect anything to come out of this thread. People offended by this are a severe minority and your "offense" won't be catered to.

Intolerance is glaring.

Define severe minority. Also how big does a minority have to be for it to matter or be "catered" to? Or disregarding that what if the minority is right?

I have already accomplished a lot with this thread thanks. The fact that it got 200 post in 24 hours proved a big point, that there are people who care about the issue in this community. It also has raised awareness of that.

Okay, let's accept that it's subconsciously making that connection. Where's the issue? It's only a thought. There's no action behind it. Or am I bullying people with my thoughts?

Yup you are. Words as the expression of ideas can give people life or death.

I don't take a hissy fit whenever a conservative christian group takes an anti-gay stance, I don't care when I overhear people being scared of "them gays", and I'm not in the least bit bothered by smashers subconsciously implying negative connotations to being gay.

I don't throw "hissy fits" either. I counteract them in what ways I can. Also obviously this topic covers more then any one persons given feelings, straight or gay.

The smash community isn't interested in catering to everyone. The smash community is interested in catering to the smash community.

Which includes gay people who are subconsciously demeaned with the communities casual use of the word gay.

Please, show proof that most gay people feel offended by the use of the word gay in this way, but are too unwilling to express it because they don't want to look like a wuss/be looked at differently/cause extra trouble.

Why does it have to be most gay people?

But at this point I would love to start a poll on the matter.

But yeah, people should be allowed to say racist things. You either deal with it, or avoid it.

People are indeed allowed to say racist things. The point is there are social consequences.

Because obviously you hold the truth on the matter, and we're just perceiving it incorrectly. looooool. You BELIEVE it's in a negative context. You don't KNOW. You are not an authority on the matter.

I don't think anyone is here. However would you like me to start citing those who actually are?

Once again,the authority on the matter is the principal. The authority here is smashboards and TOs.

And I'm just raising awareness and hopefully getting people like them to think about the topic along the way.

I don't see how I'm being bigoted at all. I'm the exact opposite. I'm saying that I believe being gay is fine, but I'm allowing people who disagree to share their view on the matter. I'm tolerant of homophobic people.

Indeed those who disagree are allowed to express it. I just started this topic to show that there are those who have issue with the word gay and how it's used in the smash community. Anyone can express there views as others and I have expressed mine.

 

[MonkUnit]

IMO it is to each their own. It is someone's choice whether to use the word gay in the sense of stupid, broken, overpowered, etc. You can't really stop it all. You basically just have to ask the person if they would not use the word gay that way. That's really all there is to it. Same with saying stuff like "OH! Fox just got *****!" or greeting others like "hey *****"

EDIT: LMAO @ 황미영

 

[Lenus Altair]

EDIT: LMAO @ 황미영

Yeah... I couldn't help but laugh at that