Ganonic Grimoire (Social) - Commiseration and Hierarchy

[dean.]

Kalm back brings back great memories of my younger days lurking this board :D

 

[Vermanubis]

I think this is how the King of Evil spot should be determined:

-Tourney activity
-Placings/Players beaten
-Skill demonstrated through videos
-Word of mouth
-Consensus of other Ganons
-Contributions

We have to be objective. Judging based on sentimentalism isn't okay. i.e. I've known Kalm/Verm longer and like Kalm/Verm better.

 

[DLA]

I think we should make it like a power ranking, and have a mandatory update every 3 months or so. That way, we don't have to cling to tournament results from ages ago in order to come to a decision.

Of course, tournaments won't be the only factor. If you want to keep a competitive placing on the Ganon tier list, you gotta come out with new material. Videos of you beating a good wifi player are better than no videos at all. If you think you've improved a lot since the last update, fight one of the testers and prove it.

 

[Vermanubis]

Agreed, DLA. Good idea.

 

[Reim]

Good idea, DLA. But it would probably also require us to get some more testers, since it's only Verm and Tero, as of now, iirc.

 

[Exalted]

Z1GMA should clearly be the European tester.

 

[Dumbfire]

Sorry if you didn´t see this thread Ray, I didn´t notice it was a Social first too lol.

 

[DLA]

I can be a tester if you guys need me.

edit: Midwest Ganon ftw

 

[Z1GMA]

IMO, Verm's gonna come out on top. He may be a bit of a newcomer, but Kalm can be hella icy and I'm not sure the current Ganon community can warm up to him. And Verm is as huggable as a bunny dressed up like Gary Coleman.

I like Kalm's "icyness".
Kalm woudn't be Kalm if it weren't for his icyness.

And I like Verm for beeing Verm.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Fun games DLA. I'm surprised I played the same without a inch of rust on me.

 

[DLA]

Yeah it's pretty hard to get rusty at Brawl. I actually tend to play better after a hiatus.

When are you going to come to the U.S. so I can fight you offline? I hate wifi ganon dittos

 

[lordhelmet]

Verm 4 life. And it looks like you need to resize your sig

 

[Ganonsburg]

So Verm, what did you think of the resolution to the Ganonciding rule (or lack thereof) in the BBR ruleset?

 

[Vermanubis]

So Verm, what did you think of the resolution to the Ganonciding rule (or lack thereof) in the BBR ruleset?

Total bull****.

They just don't get that some things should not be left to technicality. "End-game screen" adherence is just a big escapism. Ganondorf is bad, but not broken bad. The suicide rule makes him so. Now people can get a free stock off of him. This is why the BBR exists; to combat things like this and to act as a guiding light away from such senseless technicalities. Yet in this case, they walk right into it.

It simply put, is not fair, and no matter how many good points are introduced, they will bring in semantics and loopholes.

 

[lordhelmet]

Verm is too right. Just convince your local TO to not use that ****ty rule.

 

[Ganonsburg]

Total bull****.

They just don't get that some things should not be left to technicality. "End-game screen" adherence is just a big escapism. Ganondorf is bad, but not broken bad. The suicide rule makes him so. Now people can get a free stock off of him. This is why the BBR exists; to combat things like this and to act as a guiding light away from such senseless technicalities. Yet in this case, they walk right into it.

It simply put, is not fair, and no matter how many good points are introduced, they will bring in semantics and loopholes.

Haha, okay. I don't want to get into a long discussion about it again, but I was pretty curious because you had missed the conclusion (TO THIS EXCITING EPISODE), but I do agree that it's a cop-out.

 

[DLA]

Out of curiosity... has anyone tried timing anyone out with Ganondorf? Serious question BTW

 

[Dumbfire]

I did time out an MK when he had got called lol.

 

[Vermanubis]

I have, DLA. I just FoG camped.

 

[GoV]

Alrighty!
Now we need some way too... play each other (Time and stuff)
@Z1gma =3.

 

[DLA]

lol, FoG camping 2 gudz. I once dreamt that I was playing on rainbow cruise and I continually FoG'd throughout the entire level without touching the ground. I'm pretty sure I was FoG'ing off of the air, and out of warlock punches and ****. I wish I saved the replay

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Holy ****. I'm not on the boards for a while and Kalm comes back?

As to the King of Evil, I think we should have a thread specifically dedicated to tournament placings. Perhaps merge it and the video thread, so we can have the vids of said tournament placings. I'll organize it all if noone else feels like it.

Also, keep forgetting to change my character thing back to Ganon.

 

[Zeallyx]

ITT: dispute, death and love

 

[Supreme Dirt]

*fact that Kalm has returned sinks in*

****it. Now I have to get better than Kalm if I'm gonna be the best Dorf in Ontario.

*sigh* Time to do what I should have weeks ago.

*makes AT checklist*

*prints*

 

[Divilenta]

Hey. I'd like to be ranked on this list sometime. :D I'll fail miserably but who cares.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

*fact that Kalm has returned sinks in*

****it. Now I have to get better than Kalm if I'm gonna be the best Dorf in Ontario.

*sigh* Time to do what I should have weeks ago.

*makes AT checklist*

*prints*

You're an Ontario Ganon?

 

[Dumbfire]

Hey. I'd like to be ranked on this list sometime. :D I'll fail miserably but who cares.

Geuss I found ffsomebody with the same idea =D
I still have to play Verm sometimeee.

@Ray_Kalm: You guys should totally ditto and put those matches up.

 

[Vermanubis]

Holy ****. I'm not on the boards for a while and Kalm comes back?

As to the King of Evil, I think we should have a thread specifically dedicated to tournament placings. Perhaps merge it and the video thread, so we can have the vids of said tournament placings. I'll organize it all if noone else feels like it.

Also, keep forgetting to change my character thing back to Ganon.

I agree. But there has to be a lot of things considered for the spot. As I said before, tournament placings mean little unless the bracket can be proven to contain good/notable players. But here's what I feel the criteria should be:

-People beaten
-Word of mouth
-Word of other Ganons
-Strength of Representation
-Videos
-Placings
-Offline activity
-Contributions

In no particular order.

 

[Ganonsburg]

I think, when you say word of mouth, you should make the point that it's word of mouth from reliable/respectable/good players.

 

[Vermanubis]

I think, when you say word of mouth, you should make the point that it's word of mouth from reliable/respectable/good players.

Of course!

 

[Supreme Dirt]

You're an Ontario Ganon?

Toronto, specifically.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

You use Ganon in tournaments as well? As in, all the way?

 

[-Vocal-]

So hey Ganon mains, I've got a question for you. There has been a lot of discussion in the ruleset lately as to whether or not Ganoncide should be a legal manner of winning. I've done quite a bit of testing, and before going any further with it and finishing what I've begun, I have to ask a question (simply because of what the evidence has shown so far).

-If you and your opponent are both on last stock, does the game ever claim Ganondorf to be the victor following a Ganoncide?

Please only answer this question affimatively if you yourself have been in this situation or have seen video proof of it occurring. It's fine to say you've never seen it; however, heresay isn't very trustworthy

 

[Vermanubis]

So hey Ganon mains, I've got a question for you. There has been a lot of discussion in the ruleset lately as to whether or not Ganoncide should be a legal manner of winning. I've done quite a bit of testing, and before going any further with it and finishing what I've begun, I have to ask a question (simply because of what the evidence has shown so far).

-If you and your opponent are both on last stock, does the game ever claim Ganondorf to be the victor following a Ganoncide?

Please only answer this question affimatively if you yourself have been in this situation or have seen video proof of it occurring. It's fine to say you've never seen it; however, heresay isn't very trustworthy

I've seen it end around three times in my entire Smash career in Ganon's favor. 49% of the time it's sudden death. The other 49% is a loss.

 

[Noobicidal]

You've only seen 150 Ganoncides?

Dohoho.

 

[-Vocal-]

I've seen it end around three times in my entire Smash career in Ganon's favor. 49% of the time it's sudden death. The other 49% is a loss.

That seems to be what my research would indicate; out of 80 tests so far, not a single one has ended in Ganon's favor.

So far I've only completed the majority of the section concerning Grab Port Priority (Port 1); I'm also going to do testing with Grab Armor Port Priority (Port 4) to see if there are any differences between the two. However, since I'm already seeing some trends, I might as well share them (though they don't seem very useful):

Against taller characters (Snake and Peach), Ganoncide seems to always produce a Sudden Death, whether percentages are even or the opponent has a percentage lead.

However, against smaller characters (Meta Knight and Jigglypuff), there is a slight chance that the opponent will win. It also seems to be character specific; Meta Knight claims victory more often than Jigglypuff. This does not seem to change between being at even percents and the opponent having a percentage lead: in both segments, Metaknight had ~30% chance of claiming victory, while Jigglypuff's chance was ~10%. (Only approximate percentages since I ran each condition 10 times as opposed to 100.)

I still have yet to fully test Ganon with a percentage lead, so I'll let you know how that turns out. However, unless Port 4 produces drastically different results it doesn't look like data is going to be supporting a Ganoncide rule any time soon - sorry guys

 

[Vermanubis]

Thanks a lot for the testing, Vocal!

As for the Ganoncide rule, we'll find something. It's ridiculous that it should be so variable based upon characters.

 

[-Vocal-]

Thanks a lot for the testing, Vocal!

As for the Ganoncide rule, we'll find something. It's ridiculous that it should be so variable based upon characters.

Yes, it does seem pretty cruddy, though there might STILL be a logical explanation, thought it's quite a stretch. All Brawl characters have bones, right? Perhaps the moves interaction with bones affects the verdict, and perhaps the bone structure of small characters somehow gives them an advantage over tall characters.

Nothing but a theory though :/

 

[DLA]

I've never seen it end as a victory for Ganon. And Wayne Brady's choked a lot of *****es.

 

[Ganonsburg]

I've never seen it either. Apparently the Europeans get more wins out of it than the Americans, but I don't know how much more likely they are to win.