Ganondorf Board's Question & Answer Thread.

[Alien Vision]

Humans are error inducers.

 

[Noobicidal]

Alright DLA. D-Tilt is probably a bad move for a lot of people, but I've found good use of it if you can read your opponent really well

The same can be said for Warlock Punch.

 

[Alien Vision]

No it cannot.

Warlock punch takes godly reading + your opponent to make a massive error.

D-Tilt is a whole new different story. What are you on about?

 

[Exalted]

Never, ever take Noobicidal seriously.

 

[DLA]

Alien Vision, to make my point clear about Dtilt... I'd have to rewatch our matches, but I don't think you landed a single Dtilt on me in the dozen or so dittos that we played lol.

It's a decent move in theory, but it really doesn't get a lot of practical use.

 

[Alien Vision]

Of course not.

But you never grabbed me out of D-Tilt either, now did you?

 

[Makke]

....................

 

[Alien Vision]

He had the speed, and the better knowledge than I do to make it happen though.

 

[Exalted]

Either way, no one's really proven anything about Dtilt. Just drop it already.

 

[Alien Vision]

D-Tilt is the key to improving Ganondorf's metagame!

If it really hasn't been fully proven, then why drop it? Why not spend some time testing it out in many different perspectives?

Mhmm?

 

[Exalted]

The D-Tilt's been tried and tried and tried for a million times, literally. If there is something amazing about the D-Tilt it's probably already known, lol.

(Man, I'm sooo tired.)

 

[Alien Vision]

No amount of time spent on a particular thing could ever deem it a comprehensive understanding.

 

[Vermanubis]

AV, it's probably best to let it go. One could argue without end that any given move has its applications, but from all realistic standpoints, DTilt is a circumstantial move.

 

[Alien Vision]

I was hoping by leaving the door open, I would receive more information regarding D-Tilt..

 

[Vermanubis]

Well, the most you need to know is that its most practical application is as a follow-up from Gerudo, and as a surprise attack from a UAir/DAir autocancel. Outside of that, its combat value is replaceable by other safe moves.

 

[Alien Vision]

Outside of that, its combat value is replaceable by other safe moves.

This is where the controversy comes in.

 

[Pachinkosam]

sacred of dark

 

[Vermanubis]

This is where the controversy comes in.

Any controversy is semantical. It's demonstrably unsafe, meets minor ground spacing criteria and deals minimal damage. It's been reasonably proven in theory and demonstrated in practice.

DTilt is a good move, but it's not a move that will ever replace DAir, jab or anything else, except under special circumstances.

 

[Alien Vision]

What about using it for spacing?

That's all I am saying..

I just want to hear more opinions on that particular circumstance.

 

[Vermanubis]

Spacing can be summed up by what I mentioned before. It spaces decently on the ground, but it has neither the range nor the disjoint to be safe or useful. Most ground moves aren't great for space, and it's usually only forward-moving moves on the ground that are. E.g. DK's FTilt, Snake's FTilt, Zelda's FSmash, etc.

DTilt is bad for spacing because it not only compromises your zone control by paralyzing you and necessitating a complete stop to execute, but because its hitbox is small and only serves to preempt opponents who feverishly try to rush you down with dash attack approaches when it comes to spacing. Unlike FTilt moves, which can be used in motion, DTilt requires you come to a full stop, which compromises your space around you, and is unsafe enough that the opponent can negotiate it with virtually zero trouble.

It's nice for a mix-up occasionally, but it's one of Ganon's moves that just doesn't have a universal combat application, as is the case with most character's DTilts/UTilts. Snake's DTilt is comparable to ours in a great many ways, but you'll never see a Snake use DTilt to space.

DTilt finds its greatest use in occasional autocancel buffer mix-ups and as a Gerudo follow-up. It can throw the opponent off once or twice, but it should never be used for zone control, which is the primary criterion for considering a move's general application.

 

[Jane]

vermanubis, have my children.

 

[Alien Vision]

Alright, Verm.

Thankyou.

 

[Vermanubis]

No problem.

Trust me, it's not uncommon for me to test things out with Ganon extensively in an attempt to further his game even just a sliver. But with some moves, it can't be argued that their application is just too nebulous to be practical.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

Poll from the BBR-RC to the public: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=310386

Discussion about it is not allowed per site rules (even in this thread), but we are allowed to conduct this poll

you heard it from me

 

[Prince Suicide]

So I'm starting to implement air dodging right before touching the ground to cancel landing lag and it's working quite well. I don't watch a lot of Ganon videos, but do you all do it?

 

[Exalted]

I actually don't think air dodging reduces landing lag, but I might be wrong.

 

[DLA]

landing lag from what? you mean the RCO lag?

if you "soft land" with an air dodge while you have RCO lag, the RCO lag is reduced by a lot (I think it's 10 frames compared to 30 frames if you have the up B lag).

I don't think air dodging right before you hit the ground constitutes a "soft landing" though... I think you need to slide along the ground during the air dodge, like what Ganon does when he ledge hop->air dodges onto the stage.

That's just what I'm assuming... I've never actually heard anyone define a "soft landing"... I just saw it in a VGBC video

 

[Prince Suicide]

I don't know, but I think you're right. Here is where I saw it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJjW0ydLDYU#t=00h03m01s

 

[DLA]

I have no idea what you're talking about lol... are you talking about RCO lag?

 

[Prince Suicide]

It's what Vex's Ganon is doing. What is RCO? Lol, sorry I'm not being specific but I get thrown off with these terms.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Air dodges auto-cancel.

He's talking about air-dodging to skip the 2 frame soft landing and 5 frame hard landing lag, not to skip RCO lag.

RCO lag is Recovery Carry Over lag, it's where if you use Up/Side B the next time you land you suffer increased landing lag.
Air dodging doesn't cancel it.

*EDIT* I just checked. Air dodges DO NOT AUTOCANCEL. DISREGARD THIS POST.

 

[Ussi]

Does uair combo into dair or is that just new mindgames people just don't expect?

since i was directed to ask here

 

[DLA]

It does not. However if you're offstage, your opponent likely won't want to air dodge out of it, because he may not be able to recover if he air dodges offstage. So it might as well be a combo on a portion of the cast.

 

[Dre89]

I'd like to know if angling stutter step fsmashes is a good idea. Angling them up or down seems good in my head, to catch aerial opponents or opponents on the edge respectively, but I was wondering how practical it was.

Also, one mix-up I like to do if I read that the opponent will cross over me is dash-pivot fsmash, but a lot of the time he'll dash attack instead. Does he have to be standing completely still after the dash or can it be buffered in the last frames?

How viable is solo Ganon in tourneys? Obviously he's not 'viable' but what I'd like to know is how far a top level Ganon could take him.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

How viable is solo Ganon in tourneys? Obviously he's not 'viable' but what I'd like to know is how far a top level Ganon could take him.

Thanks in advance.

Fonz placed 1st in a MK banned tournament a few months ago.

The only limits you have are the ones you place on yourself.

Oh and ****ing Ice Climbers. Such a dumb character.

 

[Breezy]

Fonz placed 1st in a MK banned tournament a few months ago.

The only limits you have are the ones you place on yourself.

Oh and ****ing Ice Climbers. Such a dumb character.

I still don't believe ICs is as terrible a MU as most people do. Bad, yes. Terribad, no. And this is strictly off experience. **** theorycrafting, Einstein is over rated.

 

[Bloodynite]

I still don't believe ICs is as terrible a MU as most people do. Bad, yes. Terribad, no. And this is strictly off experience. **** theorycrafting, Einstein is over rated.

no it really is that bad....

 

[Makke]

...................

 

[Z1GMA]

Thing is... IC Mains tend to underestimate Ganon's defences too much, thus making them play aggressively and go on the offense, which is stupid Vs Ganon.

If the IC Main decides to play as gay as possible (Retreating/avoiding/camping), Ganon can't do ****.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Yeah.

As usual, we have to rely on them being inexperienced in the MU.