Ganondorf Board's Question & Answer Thread.

[Alfa]

Whos meteor smash is stronger? Ness or Ganondorf? Because it says there in Smashwiki that Ness' meteor smash is stronger than Ganondorf's and Ganondorf's meteor smash is 3rd strongest while Ness' meteor smash is 2nd strongest. I strongly disagree with that so who's meteor smash is stronger?

Here is the thread on spikes:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199830

Edit: Also, best OoS option is shield, fastest thing Ganon can do out of shield since it takes 2 frames to put it up, and 7 to put it down.

 

[thexsunrosered]

Here is the thread on spikes:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199830

Edit: Also, best OoS option is shield, fastest thing Ganon can do out of shield since it takes 2 frames to put it up, and 7 to put it down.

its probably nair actually

 

[Kofu]

Hey what exactly (and how) should I input the commands for the lagless ledge UAir?

It'd be really nice if I mastered it, but I can't seem to do it.

 

[Superspright]

It's extremely easy. The thunderstorm is literally hitting jump and cstick down [do these inputs in that order, and as quickly as possible the better]. The uair is a LITTLE different. It's the same thing, but with maybe a fraction of a delay more. You'll get it. Try doing the thunderstorm first because once you can do the dair cancels effectively then the uair will be a lot easier to pick up. I had a little trouble at first getting the inputs right for the autocancels, but it's pretty easy once you get it. Next you should work on RARing and buffering into reversed tilts and instant dash attacks.

 

[Kofu]

I can Thunderstorm and autocancel UAirs/BAirs really easily. What I'm asking is how to jump from the ledge, immediately UAir, and land on the stage without landing lag.

 

[Technodeath]

yeah i had a little trouble with uairs at first, trying it like thunderstorming, but it only canceled the jump into a usmash. so i tried what you suggested which was a fraction of delay, which seems to work

 

[Laem]

As i was busy with my daily minute of crying due to ganon not having a jablock after side B, I thought of a fast, low knockback move he possesses, which is the SH insta-wizardsfoot. This thaing's any good in this situation?

 

[TP]

I can Thunderstorm and autocancel UAirs/BAirs really easily. What I'm asking is how to jump from the ledge, immediately UAir, and land on the stage without landing lag.

What you are referring to is called the Flipman, and it is extremely hard to learn. You'll just have to be persistent and keep practicing.

As i was busy with my daily minute of crying due to ganon not having a jablock after side B, I thought of a fast, low knockback move he possesses, which is the SH insta-wizardsfoot. This thaing's any good in this situation?

This one is called the Quake, and it has no uses ever. 40 frames of end lag or so means you will be punished whether you hit or miss, and it still takes 10 frames to start anyway, because jumping takes 7 and it takes 3. Worthless.

 

[Kishin]

So I just realized that Ganondorf can auto cancel his SH U-air by fast falling a little before he reaches the ground, much like how you can auto cancel SH knee with falcon by this same method. With this technique for Captain Falcon, he can SH sweet knee bowser "lag cancel(?)" -> jab and it'll come up as consecutive hits in training mode. So are there any combos that would work by doing this lag cancel (whatever you call it) with Ganondorf that wouldn't work otherwise?

 

[thexsunrosered]

So I just realized that Ganondorf can auto cancel his SH U-air by fast falling a little before he reaches the ground, much like how you can auto cancel SH knee with falcon by this same method. With this technique for Captain Falcon, he can SH sweet knee bowser "lag cancel(?)" -> jab and it'll come up as consecutive hits in training mode. So are there any combos that would work by doing this lag cancel (whatever you call it) with Ganondorf that wouldn't work otherwise?

Not that it wouldn't work otherwise, but Uair->Dtilt->Gerudo or Uair->Ftilt/Jab at 0% is really reliable option for a combo that are only helped by doing this.

We need to play again too, free of bags of sand :/

 

[Divilenta]

Okay, I have a question that's been bugging me. Is there any specific technique to a SH Autocancelled Uair? Because I've tried various methods and I can't get it to work. Most of the time I just get either an Usmash or manage to do a double jump>Uair (the ripples are right off the ground).

EDIT: NVM, figured it out by myself.

 

[@HomE]

Well i guess i respond for ****s and Giggles..

I use just my thumb and i SH and as fast as i can flick the C-stick up.. it took me a long time to do it that way because i do the slide from Y -> A for thunderstorming its a very different method but it works once you get the muscle memory...

anyone else do their AC U-air's different?

 

[Divilenta]

I found out that if I'm holding up the control stick up before I do the SH, I can just tap A and get the AC Uair. :D

 

[PK-ow!]

I found out that if I'm holding up the control stick up before I do the SH, I can just tap A and get the AC Uair. :D

That might make it difficult to drift a good distance, though.


Simply put, you should Jump with a button or tap jump, and then flick the C-stick.

You have to learn to make it slow enough that you don't Usmash - shouldn't be a problem - but then from there you have to learn to fit within the tiny window you have in order to avoid landing lag.


Indeed, I think learning how to autocancel a full hop Uair (Tipman) is just as difficult... and may be more useful.


I'm intrigued by kishin's point about AC for UAir. Is it a true AC? Are you really cutting frames, or are you just FFing to spend less time in the air? I mean, are we talking about the same thing?
Until now I've been just UAiring late, to have the hitbox out when I land... I haven't seen a use for UAiring early and then FFing.

 

[smashkng]

I think Falco matchup isn't too bad. He must kill Ganon somehow, and Falco hasn't the best approach and has lots of trouble landing killing moves. SDI the chain spike and it'll never kill, powershield the lasers (they really annoying, but I think it's still far from impossible to deal with) and Wizard Kick out of Illusion (which can hit him while try I mean, nowhere near 0/100, more like 30/70 or 25/75 Falco. It can't be as hard as IC. Well, that's just my opinion.

 

[Superspright]

The falco matchup isn't that hard. I enjoy PSing stuff. It's a great way to kill the morale of your opponent if EVERY laser you shoot is wasted time. Eventually they may stop or mix it up.

I usually can just PS walk up to any the spammers in this game except for fox of course.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Do Ganon mains alt Meta Knight for his bad match ups?

 

[@HomE]

Do Ganon mains alt Meta Knight for his bad match ups?

Please tell me your joking...

we eat MK's for Brunch

 

[TP]

Please tell me your joking...

we eat MK's for Brunch

He means using MK as a secondary. I personally just use ROB, since I'm happy with the Ganon-MK matchup and never run into G&W in tourney anyway, since he is oddly unpopular.

Obviously using MK as a secondary makes the most sense... but then again, just MAINING him is the correct logical choice, so you can't expect us Ganons to be on the ball about sensible decisions.

 

[fromundaman]

He means using MK as a secondary. I personally just use ROB, since I'm happy with the Ganon-MK matchup and never run into G&W in tourney anyway, since he is oddly unpopular.

Obviously using MK as a secondary makes the most sense... but then again, just MAINING him is the correct logical choice, so you can't expect us Ganons to be on the ball about sensible decisions.

Haha! Too true TP!

 

[Superspright]

I wouldn't use anyone else for the matchup aside from maybe snake. I like snake.

 

[smashkng]

I main Snake, but I still play Ganon. I play Snake just because I'm very good with him. I would main Ganon if he didn't suck so much. But still, Ganon has one think that's he's better than Snake: aerials. They don't have the massive ending-landing lag of Snake that can't be auto canceled in short hops.

 

[Superspright]

My situation is that Ganon mains me, and I secondary snake...rofl. My Ganon is better than my snake, but my snake can handle the impossible matchups like shiek or ICs. Even D3 is considerably easier for snake.

I will not go snake against MK though. I prefer to use my Ganon.

 

[@HomE]

Haha, well i happen to second Snake also... I've been playing other chars longer (DK, Falco) but Snake is just waaaay to much fun for me. Makeing my friends want to stop playing due to grenades is worth it on its own, that plus just walking around only useing F-tilt, Jab and U-tilt... that just makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

my top 5 have to be:
1)Ganon
2)Snake
3)Ness
4)DK
5)Falco

 

[Superspright]

My favorite thing to do against a grenade campy snake is to air dodge cancel throw the grenades back. Or just airdodge catch them and charge up to them and SHAD while it explodes. But, my favorite thing with snake is doing epic combos like fair to trip mine. Or usmash to bair. Or full charge usmash to double hop nair and they get smashed with the mortar as the last hit is about to go off, or just after.

Do you play wifi @home?

 

[@HomE]

I'm infamously bad/whiny on Wifi... I honestly don't get to play smash that much anymore (I have played a decent amount in the past couple days tho..) I've kinda been addicted to HoN for awile now, so besides a full time job that takes up most my gaming time.

I do play Wifi for lulz, but I just don't ever play on wifi these days and therefore i really really suck hard when i do (no johns)...

That being said... Sure, I play Wifi...

 

[Superspright]

Oh okay. I hate wifi too to be honest with you--but it does help me offline a lot. The timing is just a little different, but things get easier for me offline. I play so many wolf's online that my friend who plays well...it went like this. Walk -> PS projectile -> PS projectile -> PS first hit of ftilt to grab. Throw off, stomp.

Just trashed him from straight up PS all day. That's probably all I am REALLY good at. PSing is so easy for me.

 

[@HomE]

If your good at PS then i would practice teching, i think its SOOOO helpful, stages with walls/ceilings make you next to invincible if you can tech every hit... @ 300% in luigis mansion and you should be able to stay alive with proper DI and tech skills (for a little bit anyway).

One thing that hurts me ALOT is that i have some friends who thinking spamming projectiles is just the best thing in the world, that combined with the fact that I don't really ever play smash sober... means projectile spam is a very viable tactic vs me...

 

[Superspright]

I always play the game stoned off of my face. Always. Haven't played it sober since I got it. And, PSing is easy sauce to me. Teching stuff I need to work on a little bit, but I've teched stages twice before, and then airdodged onto the stage just to walk away and reset the spacing.

I think my strongest tool is never getting anxious or worked up. I kinda...control the adrenaline. Too much and you end up making sloppy inputs--too little and you aren't reacting quickly.

I try to put my mind in a very special place where I want to destroy my opponent, but I do it in a composed manner.

 

[@HomE]

I always play the game stoned off of my face. Always. Haven't played it sober since I got it. And, PSing is easy sauce to me. Teching stuff I need to work on a little bit, but I've teched stages twice before, and then airdodged onto the stage just to walk away and reset the spacing.

I think my strongest tool is never getting anxious or worked up. I kinda...control the adrenaline. Too much and you end up making sloppy inputs--too little and you aren't reacting quickly.

I try to put my mind in a very special place where I want to destroy my opponent, but I do it in a composed manner.

Yup, I've found music to be helpful the.. like.... 2 times ive tried it. I know there has been lots of talk about listening to music while playing and its just a matter of preference. for me, it seems to work wonders.

 

[Superspright]

I always have to have some beats on. I prefer music that has a particular cadence to it [I don't know music theory, but I have a great ear, but I can't articulate it.] And it helps me with timing my thunderstorms and anything else. Plus, I feel like I am playing stylishly as hell while I listen. I just feel Ganon better that way.

 

[Kishin]

Just recently took at a peak at the Ray Kalm's MM thread and saw the little debate on rolling.

So to roll away and be generally safer or to never roll away for that reason and get a chance to punish or whatever when the time comes? What I personally do is I roll away often after something like an AC D-air or AC U-air at the beginning. I think this might make the opponent feel more safe and then, whenever I feel like, I'll mix it up by not rolling or rolling toward them or something. If I decide to roll toward them and they see and punish it then I might just roll toward them again since they'll probably expect me to mix it up. So what does everyone think? What does everyone else generally do? Always better to not roll or what?

 

[A2ZOMG]

I think Falco matchup isn't too bad. He must kill Ganon somehow, and Falco hasn't the best approach and has lots of trouble landing killing moves. SDI the chain spike and it'll never kill, powershield the lasers (they really annoying, but I think it's still far from impossible to deal with) and Wizard Kick out of Illusion (which can hit him while try I mean, nowhere near 0/100, more like 30/70 or 25/75 Falco. It can't be as hard as IC. Well, that's just my opinion.

Vs Falco is however unwinnable.

I do agree that he's not as bad as people make him out to be. I mean, Falco can actually get owned if he slips up, and he doesn't kill that easily in general.

As for me, the chainspike is the least of your worries. Just let him laser camp you or hit you with a N-air (stand on a platform) and no more chainspike.

Bait the **** out of him then and find a way to combo him, then find a way to hit him with a sparta kick to get him offstage so he'll be gimped. Or F-smash him. Either works.

Personally me, I also think DDD really isn't that bad of a matchup for Ganon. I'd actually push that one to be 65/35 DDD. Yeeeeah he has a chaingrab and his B-air is gay, but that is all he can do. He can't actually approach worth crap, and his Waddle Dee camping should not bother you at all if you are patient (like any Ganon should be). He'll then try to F-tilt you, which you can also try to powershield, and then you can F-air his head a lot whenever he whiffs. Fullhop N-air also works really well on him, especially if there is a platform nearby (you might get U-tilted at KO percents though). Sure, he'll still **** you a lot since Ganon just sucks, but Ganon doesn't have to roll over and die instantly without a fight. He's much less tedious to approach than Yoshi too.

 

[Chaosgriffin]

GANONDORF! How does Ganon do on battlefield? good - neutral - bad?

 

[*JuriHan*]

GANONDORF! How does Ganon do on battlefield? good - neutral - bad?

Very good **** 10 char limit

 

[Superspright]

Platforms help him more than hurt him in most matchups--unless those platforms can be exploited much better like DK, or Snake, or MK. Other than that, it is often good. Ganon can camp underneath, and a lot of projectiles become less useful because of the platforms.

 

[Divilenta]

I have a question. Is there really any recommended control configuration for playing Ganon? I'm curious because just turning off Tap Jump really improved my game, so I figure that perhaps a different Control Configuration might help.

 

[Superspright]

Tap jump isn't too useful--I use a wiimote, so the whole tapjump thing becomes irrelevant. I can jump and do aerials at the same time.

 

[Noobicidal]

Tap Jump on, Y set to Grab, and R set to attack. Most other Ganon users would advocate for Tap Jump off, but I just don't like Thunderstorming that way. R just makes walking/running charge up smash a bit easier.

 

[@HomE]

Tap jump off

X set to grab

R set to attack

I noticed i only use L for shielding so i switched R to attack for FoG

I also only use Y to jump so i set X to grab because i think the Z button is shiat

Also to punish anyone who plays with my tag...