Ganondorf Board's Question & Answer Thread.

[TP]

Hey guys, I just thought of something. I shouldn't really second Link while maining Ganon. Both of those characters weren't really meant to be a second main if you wish to get really good with them. It's close to impossible to become extremely good with both those characters at once. I should just stick to being good with one character, Ganon.

So yeah, I'll possibly second a better character to deal with Ganondorf's impossible match-ups in tournaments I go to from now on. I'm thinking either Zelda/Sheik, Marth or Ike.

It all depends on what matchups you feel your Ganon can't handle. My ROB has never lost to an Olimar or Diddy because he owns them (based on my offline experience), but he wasn't very helpful when it was time to fight an MK. What characters (that actually show up in tourneys) do you think you will need to CP against?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

It all depends on what matchups you feel your Ganon can't handle. My ROB has never lost to an Olimar or Diddy because he owns them (based on my offline experience), but he wasn't very helpful when it was time to fight an MK. What characters (that actually show up in tourneys) do you think you will need to CP against?

Sheik, Falco, Olimar, and Ice Climbers. A small chance of it being Pikachu, and Yoshi as well.

Everyone up there, but Sheik, are used commonly in tournaments.

 

[AgentJGV]

ok. guys? What the heck is a Tipman?! I know it has something to do with an Uair. I read through the big guide but only found stuff like "tipman -> whatever"


Please excuse my noobishness. =P

 

[Koskinator]

Its doing a Uair backwards so you hit someone with the end frames of the attack. It's one of the best semi spikes in the game.

 

[AgentJGV]

........well I feel really dumb. lol thank you sir.

 

[TP]

Sheik, Falco, Olimar, and Ice Climbers. A small chance of it being Pikachu, and Yoshi as well.

Everyone up there, but Sheik, are used commonly in tournaments.

I believe G&W is one of the hardest matchups for both Olimar and Ice Climbers, and I don't see why he wouldn't beat Falco either. However, he is not a fun character to play as, and this is the Ganon Board, so we can't settle for that.

Hey guys, it looks like I have another tournament coming up this weekend. My parents have taken a chill pill and are more willing to let me have a life now. Thinkaman already said he's going, so I can get some revenge.... or get 3 stocked again.

 

[Face124]

How many frames is it before Ganondorf leaves the ground when he jumps?

I hear its usually 6,7 or 8, but maybe I'm mixing it up with grabs.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

How many frames is it before Ganondorf leaves the ground when he jumps?

I hear its usually 6,7 or 8, but maybe I'm mixing it up with grabs.

It's somewhere between 4-6, I'm not sure, it's a bit slower than Metaknights. I do know that it's not the worse, It takes Snake longer to jump, possibly 7-8 frames.

 

[stRIP]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-mW5r41Ego

@ 1:55...how to do that it looks so fkin awesome =D

a friend told me its an pivot boost and you just have to tilt your stick a bit more to the right than the left ... but doesnt work for me =(

 

[hyperstation]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-mW5r41Ego

@ 1:55...how to do that it looks so fkin awesome =D

a friend told me its an pivot boost and you just have to tilt your stick a bit more to the right than the left ... but doesnt work for me =(

It's called "doop walking". Hold A(ttack) and then walk forward and tap yr cstick backward and up at 45 degrees over and over again while still walking forward. Not useful, but it looks cool.

 

[thexsunrosered]

do we have a chat o.o

 

[Teronist09]

How many frames is it before Ganondorf leaves the ground when he jumps?

I hear its usually 6,7 or 8, but maybe I'm mixing it up with grabs.

He leaves the ground on frame 8 iirc

 

[TP]

It's called "doop walking". Hold A(ttack) and then walk forward and tap yr cstick backward and up at 45 degrees over and over again while still walking forward. Not useful, but it looks cool.

It isn't actually called Doop walking anymore. Everyone realized the name was stupid, now it's pivot walking.

 

[Face124]

Sup, not sure if this is known, but Gerudo has less RCO lag than Dark Dive, and so if you sweet spot the ledge with Dark Dive, you should ledge hop Gerudo and re-grab, then get up. It seems to shorten it by almost half, around 3/5's of Dark Dive's.

 

[Squirrely]

Sup, not sure if this is known, but Gerudo has less RCO lag than Dark Dive, and so if you sweet spot the ledge with Dark Dive, you should ledge hop Gerudo and re-grab, then get up. It seems to shorten it by almost half, around 3/5's of Dark Dive's.

See
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225817
Thread on first page.

Also, to the guy asking if we had a chat:
http://xat.com/Ganondorf_Brawlers

I think the link is also somewhere on the first page of the sticky-ed Friend Finder thread.

 

[Face124]

See
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225817
Thread on first page.

Bah :/

Still, thread low on first page with completely unrelated title.

 

[Z1GMA]

It isn't actually called Doop walking anymore. Everyone realized the name was stupid, now it's pivot walking.

Yeah, it was called "Doop walking",since Doopliss discovered it. ( Also a SweDorf <3 )
But you're right; it changed to "Pivot walking", later on.

I've also heard it beeing called "Ballerina twirl". (Most likely Marth's version of it, lol)

 

[Kishin]

I've been experimenting with some short hop back tip of U-air combos and found that the only attack Ganon had that would follow up was N-air. Is this guaranteed and are there any other tip of U-air comboes? The CPU perfect shields it afterwards. I haven't tried U-air yet. F-tilt gets perfect shieled as well as IDA.

Also, is tip of U-air -> grab a successful combo?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I've been experimenting with some short hop back tip of U-air combos and found that the only attack Ganon had that would follow up was N-air. Is this guaranteed and are there any other tip of U-air comboes? The CPU perfect shields it afterwards. I haven't tried U-air yet. F-tilt gets perfect shieled as well as IDA.

Also, is tip of U-air -> grab a successful combo?

With proper buffering, a lot other combos are true.

 

[Z1GMA]

Do you guys find the very last, weakest hit of Nair ever effective in any way?
I mean the very last few frames on the last kick of the two, that barely pusches them over.

 

[weinner]

It..........

.............

.............

.... gives a slight stun? :|

Uhhhh.....

............

............

It can hit some people out of their airdodges?

............

That's all I can think of.


Also, I was playing against a CPU Lv. 9 Sonic, he was in the air and I stomped him, he foward teched rolled
the stomp (Suprise number 1), I D-tilt'd him and it connected while he was still in his tech animation
(Suprise number 2). Any explaination for this? Or is this new?

 

[B!squick]

We discovered for Bowser's Klaw that instead of jumping, if you're on a platform, you can fall through it instead, which can lead directly into any aerial, special, or what have you. You're basically cancelling with Klaw off the platform into whatever you want.

My question is can/does Ganon do something similar with FoG or anything else for that matter?

 

[B!squick]

This thread is lacking in the answer department of Q&A.

 

[:034:]

Also, I was playing against a CPU Lv. 9 Sonic, he was in the air and I stomped him, he foward teched rolled
the stomp (Suprise number 1), I D-tilt'd him and it connected while he was still in his tech animation
(Suprise number 2). Any explaination for this? Or is this new?

You aren't invincible for the entirety of your tech roll. There are parts where you can be hurt, which is what happened here.

We discovered for Bowser's Klaw that instead of jumping, if you're on a platform, you can fall through it instead, which can lead directly into any aerial, special, or what have you. You're basically cancelling with Klaw off the platform into whatever you want.

My question is can/does Ganon do something similar with FoG or anything else for that matter?

No idea. My bet's on "no".

 

[Face124]

Which of Ganondorf's aerials has the least landing lag?

Falcon has RCO lag, but he can us on of his AC'ing aerials to cancel it, so Ganny's aerial with the least landing lag may be quicker than 12 frames.

 

[:034:]

nair @ 22 frames

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Anyone else find Zero Suit Samus's to be rather easy once you're use to their playstyles? I'm literally sandbagging against the ZSS's I fight.

 

[:034:]

Anyone else find Zero Suit Samus's to be rather easy once you're use to their playstyles? I'm literally sandbagging against the ZSS's I fight.

I have never actually played a ZSS offline, so I wouldn't know. o__o

 

[stRIP]

Anyone else find Zero Suit Samus's to be rather easy once you're use to their playstyles? I'm literally sandbagging against the ZSS's I fight.

In the opposite: i hate fighting Zss ._.

 

[Z1GMA]

I don't like fighting ZSS..
Her weak, low damage, but long range-attacks interupts so many of Ganon's moves ;\

 

[Spade1]

I have a quick question about ganon, how do you guys find the most effective way to get around spam like wolf's blaster or pit's arrows. Like is it rolling, PS, jumping? Just seems alot harder with him than many other characters.

 

[:034:]

I have a quick question about ganon, how do you guys find the most effective way to get around spam like wolf's blaster or pit's arrows. Like is it rolling, PS, jumping? Just seems alot harder with him than many other characters.

Walk and powershield. Usually, Pit and Wolf players have a rhythm to the spamming, so you could even run and shield if you can get that down, but I recommend just walking.

 

[Spade1]

Walk and powershield. Usually, Pit and Wolf players have a rhythm to the spamming, so you could even run and shield if you can get that down, but I recommend just walking.

ty.

10 char

 

[Teronist09]

How much is known about sourspot bair? I've been using it alot, and I've had some success doing ledge hop -> sourspot bair -> footstool at low %, though it's not good for much other than evading and i've only done it on BF.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I was wondering. "Why is the Dorf so low on the tier list?" I mean... he has good combo's for a heavy, a tech chase, good ledge guard and VERY good power. On top of that he has some fast moves and auto cancel's. So why is this dude so low? Is it due to bad match ups or what?

 

[:034:]

I was wondering. "Why is the Dorf so low on the tier list?" I mean... he has good combo's for a heavy, a tech chase, good ledge guard and VERY good power. On top of that he has some fast moves and auto cancel's. So why is this dude so low? Is it due to bad match ups or what?

He's a big target, has slow options, lots of lag and a very bad grab range. He doesn't have anything he excels at (his power can easily be found when playing with D3 or Snake) but he does get all the downsides of it. Also, his recovery can easily be gimped, he has no approach options and due to the slow options and bad grab very low defensive options.

Basically it's not that Ganondorf suffers from not having enough strengths, it's from having not enough basic options to cope with. That, and all of Ganondorf's strength can be found with a better character. Think about it - what you described (good combo's for a heavy, good techchasing, good edgeguarding and good power) can ALL be found with Snake, who has a lot of camping options, a bigger grab range, a better recovery... And almost none of the downsides that Ganondorf has to cope with.

 

[Squirrely]

Ganondorf has approach issues.

He has no projectile. You can't win by playing defensively against someone with a projectile when you have none. They will shoot you until you die. You have to go on the attack if you want to win. This is a problem for Ganondorf because he's a big target, has slow movement speed and has truckloads of cooldown lag for just about all his moves. Usually by the time he's gotten close to his opponent Ganon has been hit half a dozen times from lasers or arrows or whatever. Typically, the opponent either flees to a safer vantage point while Ganon reels from the last hit OR they zoom up to him and continue to lay down the hurt with juggles, which Ganon is terrible at escaping being heavy, or grab combos, which Ganon is also terrible at escaping for exactly the same reasons.

"But wait, how does everyone else with no projectile deal with this junk?"
-Typically with speed and mobility to weave between attacks and strike before the shooter can react. Think chars like Jigglypuff, Kirby (though he shoots sword energy, it's a rare moment when that overcomes projectile spam), Meta Knight, Squirtle, Sonic and Wario. These guys can either go under, over or between projectiles while making headway to their target and since they're not being hit, they can attack freely or move accordingly with their opponent. Most of them are by no coincidence, short.

"What about the guys you didn't list like Bowser, or Donkey Kong or..."
-Yeah shut up, I was getting there. Guys like Bowser, Donkey Kong, Ike, Charizard are pretty much in the same boat as Ganondorf when it comes to dealing with projectiles. Being big and slow, they suck at it.

"Then what makes them any better than Gan..."
-Well they each have quirks that gives them an edge where Ganon can not compete. I'll make a small list:

Bowser has the range and power of Ganondorf except Bowser excels with a great grab game, a very excellent up-b move that helps him break out of locks and combos, and moves with less lag (I'm thinking jab and fair). Also he breathes fire, which gives him excellent range and priority.

Donkey Kong has even more range than Ganondorf with just as much power. He also is much faster in just about every aspect. Furthermore he has deadly grab game. And super armor on key moves (up-b and monkey punch). And he has great edge game and is a menace with his b-airs.

Ike has Ganon's range and power. The fact that he uses a sword gives him priority over anyone else's body parts. Furthermore, he has an annoyingly good jab that can combo into itself or other deadlier moves (keep in mind his jab can also kill -_-), a move that can counter other moves, making him invincible and nullifying the attack no matter how powerful while dealing excellent damage to the offending attacker, and his up-b is extremely hard to spike, gimp, guard against.

Charizard has range and power. His rocks and fire give him a ******** amount of priority, damage and knockback (his f-air is fire). He also has faster ground speed. And he has multiple jumps and can glide.

Addendum: Marth uses a sword which makes him better than Ganon. The fact that he's also fast, has good range and maneuverability, chain grabs, side-b combos and a counter move put him well above many other people as well.

Captain Falcon is an unfortunate case. He's fast, but has crap for priority. And his kill moves are either tough to land or are otherwise easily avoidable. Other chars just flat out beat him with priority or otherwise outlast him. Even Ganon has a chance against him because of this.

I could probably write pages more on Ganon's faults and advantages other characters have over him, but that's what the match-up threads are for. Check them out, they're stickied.

tl;dr People hit Ganon, and he doesn't hit them. That's why they win and he loses.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Makes sense to me. Thanks guys! ^-^
(Our poor low tier LoZ characters....) T-T

 

[Serph]

Playing as other "power" characters makes you wonder what the hell Sakurai was thinking when he crippled Ganon with sluggish movements, laggy moves and awful recovery. Anyone can tell that's a recipe for disaster. Especially for someone who needs to get in close to deal damage.

I'd still never give up playing the 'dorf, mind.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Playing as other "power" characters makes you wonder what the hell Sakurai was thinking when he crippled Ganon with sluggish movements, laggy moves and awful recovery. Anyone can tell that's a recipe for disaster. Especially for someone who needs to get in close to deal damage.

I'd still never give up playing the 'dorf, mind.

Sakurai based everything with items on. Ganon's actually proven to be around the best, while the items are turned on.


Also, Squirrely, you forgot to mention the most important fault in Ganon. His weight. It's the only thing I'm pissed about. His weight, combined with his sloppy recovery, and his slow momentum cancels (Falcon, and Link could survive more than 30% longer than him), makes him below mid-weightish.