Ganon vs.

[Renth]

An other nice thing to do vs Peach is if she is recovering from very high grab the edge and ledge jump (not ledge hop) then double jump. You get a lot more vert that way and you can get punish opportunities or just keep her in check.

Haha agreed!

I also, always when peach is d air edge guarding ALWAYS DI Down, it won't pull you up into the n air

 

[DippnDots]

Haha agreed!

I also, always when peach is d air edge guarding ALWAYS DI Down, it won't pull you up into the n air

you for realsies? Can you just hold down on the control stick or do you need to DI each hit real quickly?

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

Holding down will keep you DIing that direction with each hit. No need to smash it.

 

[Renth]

you for realsies? Can you just hold down on the control stick or do you need to DI each hit real quickly?

For sure, just hold down I learned that from RyokoYaksa years ago

 

[RestInPeace]

Is it possible to DI under the Dair when being edgeguarded, then Uair her and UpB and still make it back alive?

 

[Dorsey]

Is it possible to DI under the Dair when being edgeguarded, then Uair her and UpB and still make it back alive?

Not a good idea. Not only would you probably have already used your jump in that situation (getting hit by the dair during your upB), but you might even fast fall as a result.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

Ganon
+Power
+Range
+Weight
+Edge guarding
+/Mobility
+/Evasive tactics
-/Air mobility
-Speed
-Lag
-Recovery

Peach
+Projectile
+Recovery
+Air mobility
+Speed
+Lag (float cancel)
+Edge guarding
+/Power
+/Disjointed hitbox
-/Mobility
-/Evasive tactics
-Range
-Weight

Ganon
*Ganon can catch Peach's turnips and use them to his advantage.
*SHFF reverse uair + ftilt works well on peach due to her good traction.
*Dair beside a recovering peach can spike her without much risk of the umbrella interrupting you.
*When you catch a sword you can still do your aerials with it in hand.
*Dthrow to usmash can kill Peach at 60% on stages with low ceilings
*When Peach's dsmash is fully blocked you can get a free upB out of shield.

Peach
*Peach can do aerial attacks with turnips in hand.
*Downsmash edge guard disables Ganons ability to edge tech and survive.
*Float canceled dsmash combos work good on Ganon.
*Usmash has priority and makes Peach's head and arms invincible causing some hurt to Ganon's air game.
*Ganons edge tech can get him sucked into multi hits if Peach downsmash.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is one of the few match ups where Ganon is actually faster on foot than his opponent. With that at hand his waveland attacks are phenomenal for spacing and closing the gap. Regardless though Peach's up close game is great and she can also camp pretty safe. Ironically in the air Peach is very vulnerable. If she messes up a float cancel chain shield grabbing dthrow to uair at low mid percents is a great way to put her in a position she doesn't want to be in. Bair and uair are best spacing tools you have when she's grounded. Angle up ftilt is also good for capitalizing on low floated aerials. A difficult approach to deal with is turnip throw to fair. You can handle this by uairing Peach through the turnip or jumping and catching then Z dropping the turnip asap. When recovering you can avoid dair to nair by DIing down during dair. Recovering from under the stage isn't fun but it is a better option that getting any more damage. Spacing is key in this match but most important is not getting caught up in your shield. You need to use your speed and stay aggressive to keep Peach from exercising her priority on you.

They're many ways to edge guard Peach. When Peach approaches from under the stage reverse uair always wins. As soon as her upB peaks the umbrella losses it's hitbox for a moment. That is your opportunity to uair. When she approaches from above the stage you can dair parallel to her and spike with your side if you choose not to bair. Peach can get far up when recovering. A nice technique you can do to reach her is grab the edge and ledge jump (not ledge hop) then double jump. Ganon gets tons of vert doing this. From there you can do what is necessary.

#1. Do not CC dsmash. That's a gimmie.
#2. Do not jump through platforms into a dsmash.
#3. Do not catch turnips and attempt o throw them at close range. If you catch em in the air release em with Z.

Ganon's favor
Battle field
Dreamland
Rainbow cruise
Brinstar
Peach's favor
Fountain of dreams
Toss up
Mute city
Final destination

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is what I have so far. I know the stages look funky but drop your two cents so it can be more accurate. I hear Peach's like Brinstar but I'm not sure why. FoD is a great Peach stage but Vanz doesn't think so according to his guide. Let me know what needs to be added or fixed.

 

[-ACE-]

Pretty good stuff. I don't really have much to add. I wish I had a little more experience in this matchup.

-As long as Peach is not at very low percent, regular edgetech to upB works fine against dsmash edgeguard

-Mute City. lol I'll always consider it in Peach's favor but that's just me

 

[Ace55]

I dominate the only peach main we have around here in Holland, even though he outranks me quite a bit, so this might be my favorite matchup. I love how Ganon edgeguards peach compared to most other characters. With reverse upair its just like: 'I'm gonna cover this general vicinity and good luck getting around it'.

Also, Ganon with a turnip is win.

I'll try to get in a few matches with Armada when he comes over at the end of the month. But I'll probably won't be the only one.

 

[-ACE-]

Ace if you ever come to the US I'm moneymatching the hell out of you.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

I dominate the only peach main we have around here in Holland, even though he outranks me quite a bit, so this might be my favorite matchup. I love how Ganon edgeguards peach compared to most other characters. With reverse upair its just like: 'I'm gonna cover this general vicinity and good luck getting around it'.

Also, Ganon with a turnip is win.

I'll try to get in a few matches with Armada when he comes over at the end of the month. But I'll probably won't be the only one.

who, jeffzor?


Battles of the aces, ohshi!

 

[Ace55]

who, jeffzor?

How did he ever get c rank anyway? I beat him with bowser in friendlies, what's that all about?

And Ace, my dad is an American, so I'll probably be going there again sometime.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

The top fast fallers of the game and the most common characters you'll run into at high and low level play. Though they are very different characters they have similarities that make it more convienient to discuss both rather than one at a time. Fox controls you with speed and Falco with lazers but when Ganon gets the upper hand they almost both go down the same exact way. For the sake of keep the discussion easy to keep up with it would be great if you typed in regular text when discussing Fox and red text when discussing Falco.

Now with the introduction out the way feel free to discuss things such as stage counter picks, edge guarding strategies, combat strategies, what NOT to do, viable tricks and gimmick.

Those are the basic categories the indepth portion of the thread will consist of.

Ganon
+Power
+Range
+Weight
+Edge guarding
-/Air mobility
-Mobility
-Evasive tactics
-Speed
-Lag
-Recovery

Fox
+Mobility
+Evasive tactics
+Speed
+Lag
+Edge guarding (can anyone say "shine")
+/Recovery
+/Projectile
+/Air mobility
-Power
-Range
-Weight

Ganon
*Firefox is an easy way for Fox to get spiked.
*Ganon can chain grab Fox.
*Dair/Dsmash/Gerudo dragon are great set ups for airs.


Fox
*Ganon can be waveshined with little effort.
*He can also be shined off stage with ease due to his recovery.
*Uair combos can rack up some major damage.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ganon
+Power
+Range
+Weight
+Edge guarding
-/Air mobility
-/Mobility
-Speed
-Lag
-Recovery
-Evasive tactics

Falco
+Projectile
+Evasive tactics
+Speed
+Lag
+Edge guarding
+/Air mobility
+/Mobility
-Power
-Range
-Weight
-Recovery

Ganon
*Any of Falco's recoveries reverse uaired = free stock.
*Ganon can chain grab Falco.
*Dair/Dsmash/Gerudo dragon are great set ups for airs.
*PSing is your best friend.

Falco
*Blasters can destroy Ganons recovery with wizards foot.
*Ganons lack of a sweet spot can get him spiked.
*Shine combos makes Ganon mince meat.
*Utilt can combo Ganon well.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fox's speed is great but land dashes really do balance the movement on the playing field in spacing situations. The fact that you get punished if you whiff moves near Fox forces you to be accurate. Retreating fairs is a wonderful way to feel out your opponent and keep the space. It's a great counter for nair happy Foxs. Going aggressive vs Fox has to be pressure based. Utilizing jabs, tilts and uair works wonders for playing aggressive and pressuring Fox. Playing close has it's consequences if you miss spacing and don't apply pressure. You can get crossed over easy and get caught in heavy shield pressure. DIing away and CCing nairs and jabbing is a good way of avoiding Fox's heavy cross over game. When recovering unless you get a guaranteed sweet spot it's best to recover from above the stage and take the hits that follow if you can't get away with mind gaming a ledge grab. This match up is really tough until you get Fox in a teching situation. He doesn't tech roll far and dair follow ups can combo into something very damaging and a easy edge guard. To get Fox on his back you can use the basic hard hitting moves like fair, dair and bair and even dthrow to jab to get Fox on him teching. Gaining control in this match is hard but when you get your opportunities your few hits really do count when taken.

Any time you knock Fox offstage he should be dead. Generally you want to stay on the stage unless he up Bs too close but it is possible to use RLD and ledge hopped uairs to switch things up. On stage, your best edgeguards for a sweet spot attempt are reverse uair, dair and ftilt angled downward. Fox illusions that are done a bit above the ledge can be jabbed if you can't bair in time. If he is coming from underneath the stage and you know the up B will overshoot, bair is a great option. Stages like FD can let Fox ride his up B along the side of the stage to shorten the vert of his up B so understand which types of stages he won't be able to sweet spot on. If he decides to recover from above the stage bair is probably you best option. - ACE's analysis with a few extra notes. Thanks for a great analysis. His original post is more in-depth.

#1. Do not get off stage unnessecarily. It is an easy way to lose a stock at any percent to a shine spike.

Ganon's favor
Battle field
Jungle **** (is that the barrel level?)
Brinstar
Fox's favor
Final destination
Fountain of dreams
Toss up
Yoshi story

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Enjoy and discuss. Guini is back in the US so it would be great to hear from you. I will look into your old post Guini and post em here so you don't have to stay repeating yourself. After this though if anyone ever ask you how to go vs spacies just link em here.

 

[DippnDots]

I personally love playing ganon against falcos, it's a **** fest. Although I don't have any solid advice other than tech chase him for two hits and he's dead.


Edit: Every ganon main should be 100% familiar with the dair -> warlock punch and dair -> utilt combos on spacies, no Ganon Diploma otherwise.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

Dppin you're talking crazy about those dair neutral B's and uptilts. I'm more of a fan of dair > side b at times. Though regarding these match ups I think I may have them finished in a few days. Approach is my main concern in these match ups, well vs Falco anyways. Fox is more of a game of tag. When you get him to tech its your turn to get him but if he recovers safely he's it. I like Fox vs Ganon a lot. Helps me learn to stay on point and react instead of anticipate.

With Falco my philosophy is rush and don't be rush. He controls the spaces most of the time. Falco is one of the few matches I'd love to play on the daily to get reacquainted with. When ever I play against Falco lately I feel like I'm not doing anything strategic except running and trying to hit him.

Use the red (or any color you like) peeps so I can sort through and note things for when I paste the info together.

 

[Renth]

Is it possible to DI under the Dair when being edgeguarded, then Uair her and UpB and still make it back alive?

In most cases, whenever exarch would see me DIing down through his down air, he'd float back and f air as I had to up b into it. If you're good at teching then you can usually get out of it.


Tip:

Lazy Teching - Half way through your up b hold R/L and you will usually tech everytime. Its a certain amount of time before you get it. But once you see how easy it is you'll love it.

 

[DippnDots]

yeah it's just for ****s and giggles, not practical at all. A lot of falco's i play against, even good experienced ones, get thrown off when you chaingrab them and mix up jabbing / re-grabbing, real easy way to read a tech or capitalize on them missing it from the pressure. Getting the grab is hard though and you can get ****ed real hard if you whiff a grab on a falco.

When it comes to approaching I find that the main thing is knowing which lasers to avoid and advance from and which ones to simply avoid, sometimes i'll get punished for hopping over a laser by falco's nair and sometimes I can get a fair off on his beak.

 

[-ACE-]

ACE's advice on edgeguarding Fox/Falco:

Any time you knock Fox or Falco offstage they should be dead. Generally you want to stay on the stage unless they up-B too close (spacies that are used to the matchup hardly ever do this). On stage, your best edgeguards are reverse uair, bair, and ftilt (usually downward angled). It is important to note that only the reverse uair will hit sweetspotters (notably frame 16 of the uair, which has massive priority at the tip of Ganon's toe and will not trade hits with firefox/firebird). Here is a picture of frame 16:

If they are coming from underneath the stage and you know the up-B will overshoot, bair is a great option for its priority and duration of its hitbox. You can also fair or even dair them as soon as they land if you know it will kill. Dair at the edge is also an option, especially if you don't have enough time to reverse uair and you're not sure if they up-B will overshoot or not - just be prepared for them to meteor cancel. Also, don't be caught off guard if/when they tech. Lots of spacies like to walltech and go straight to up-B; make sure you bair/fair them immediately. They might also try to sweetspot with a phantasm/illusion after a walltech, just reverse uair or downward angled ftilt. If they do a normal tech you're back where you started and they have more damage.

If they are even with the stage, you must be ready for a phantasm/illusion attempt. I've found that the best way to cover this is with reverse uair. Not only will it hit them if they are about to sweetspot, but if they choose to up-B instead, you will have time to punish that as well (downward angled ftilt is great here). If you don't have enough time to turn around, use downward angled ftilt (which at least forces them to sweetspot perfectly). The reverse uair may not always kill (especially on Fox), but if nothing else it should set you up for an easy edgeguard. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cDR4BWEqIU#t=0m58s Here Linguini executes the reverse uair edgeguard on a sweetspotter perfectly. A quick dropzone dair followup would have been beautiful.

If they up-B above the stage, additional variables come into play. Depending on their position they may have the option of going for the ledge (downward; diagonally for sweetspot). You should be able to recognize whether this is possible or not immediately, and be able to choose the right edgeguard. If you think they will go for the ledge, you can cover this with downward angled ftilt (because of the angle they are coming at) or a well timed reverse uair. If you think they are going to come straight at you (it's your job to teach them that this is a big mistake vs Ganon), just jab or use one of your 3 ftilts based on their height (note that it is pretty tough to jab the up-B without trading hits). This way, if they choose to go up at all and avoid you, you will have time to punish them as none of these moves have massive cooldown time (unlike a retreating fair, which is still a good option if when you think they will be coming right at you).

Btw, Linguini. I hope you don't mind me using your vid as an example, and I hope my words don't come off as a critique, as that is not the case. I know that is an old vid and both you and Chops are too good.

 

[CluelessBTD]

Ok so, as for FOX:

You can mess up his waveshine spacing if you SDI into fox so that on the next shine he sends you in the opposite direction. I've done this right off the edge before so that the last shine put me on stage instead of being shine spiked. Also, to avoid frequent shine spiking, you can air dodge onto the stage instead of upB when possible. Keep in mind that Ganon is vulnerable in the first 3 frames of the airdodge, so time it a bit early.

Remember that Fox MUST approach you, don't feel pressured to jump into the ****. I don't remember who first said this, but it has saved my a** so many times. Use backwards wavelanding so that you can mess up his spacing and get a grab. Watch Linguini's vids.

One thing that I noticed Kage takes full advantage of is SDI. Use it to get out of Fox's Dair so that he can't combo as effectively. When at a low percentage, crouch cancel fox's Nair approach and counter with jab.

Use Uair to edgeguard sweet spotters, or just jump out after fox (or Falco) and Uair or Fair him. Don't worry, he won't be making it back. If you aren't perfect at timing your Uair, you can just ledgehop a Uair if you know they are coming directly at the edge.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

Danm, Ace and Clue came through. I was looking through Guinis thread for the post I remember him elaborating on Falco. Couldn't find the post after 10+ pages so forget it. I'll be putting this portion of the thread together sometime in the next two days. I also should have the C.Falcon part done in the same time frame for Swizzy to check out.

Regarding reverse uair on Fox, I find you need to go hard on him. Sometimes two or three just aren't enough. Only time uair becomes effective is when you do it and it puts him away from the stage instead of just under. When you get him in that position the next uair is the one that kills him. Falco is way easy, one uair and you might get the stock.

I kinda agree with you Ace on not jumping into the beating but it depends on who you play. Cross over happy Fox's are good to stay spaced against but being aggressive can make them cross over a bit too far and leave them vulnerable if they're to anxious. Retreating fairs are the B&B for aerial happy Fox's. The approaches can be very different depending on who's Fox you're playing but the openings to be punished are the same no matter which type of Fox you play. Ganon looks for miss spaced aerials (nairs), shield grab opportunities and bad techs. Fox is waiting for a whiffed aerial, grab opportunity and a chance to get you caught up in your shield.

I'd like to say that both players are looking for you to waste your double jump but in what match up isn't that happening in? It's safe to say though in this match up that **** comes with bad consequences.

 

[RestInPeace]

Question about SDIing Fox' Dair: How do you do it? There's multiple hits, and I don't know if you're talking about SDIing all the hits, or the last one. If its the all, then what's the most efficient way to do this?

For the CC -> Jab thing, you can hold the analog stick at a perfect down + back angle, so that it is aimed diagonally down and away. This will CC as well as jab, and if you want to do quick consecutive jabs, this is the fastest way. This has been discussed on these boards before, but I can't find the post right now.

From watching Tipman, I learned that you can almost always get on the edge when edgeguarding a Fox. There are only two conditions to this: You need to be able to RLD on command, and you have enough time to to do.

This is because when you RLD and they're coming from under the stage, you can just RLD off the stage and Bair them in the face. If they're above you, you can jump and Uair. If they're coming directly into the stage, you can also Bair them in the face. Sweet spot isn't likely, since you were just on the edge, but it can be hit with the Bair also. Note that you have another jump after this unless you used it already to reach higher.

You can also bait Spacies (I forgot who I learned this from) by WDing OoS when you know they'll approach, so that you can shield grab them into combos.

 

[-ACE-]

One big thing vs Falco is to hold away as you attempt to shieldgrab the shine. Here's some killer info

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=2294356&postcount=15

 

[RestInPeace]

Wow, nice find. I never knew shield ASDI was that effective. I thought it was smaller.

Although that thread is 2 years old, the information in it is still a good general reminder.

 

[Linguini]

One big thing vs Falco is to hold away as you attempt to shieldgrab the shine. Here's some killer info

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=2294356&postcount=15

hah, ive been doing this for years, whenever I play people,especially spacies, they're shocked at the shieldgrabs I get. I use this combined with some other weird stuff that I do for the most ****ed up shieldgrab .If I knew how to do it I would tell you lol.

About edgeguarding fox/falco remember,when you see their up-b starting up and their at least at the ledges height dont hesitate to jump out there, ganons fair is huge so if you fastfall it you can cover 2 option; if they go up or forward.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX-PKMszDW0

2:09 in this vid is a pretty good example.

 

[-ACE-]

Yea I know none of this is news to you Guini lol.

I wish I had someone like sensei nearby to train with 24/7

 

[Ulti]

Stupid question, but what do I do when fox/falco try to f-b back to the stage? If they are coming from above all they have to do is wait a split-second and they have a free sweet-spot attempt so prediction is dodgy at best, and it none of ganon's quicker attacks (jab) really knock them out of the illusion. What can I do/

 

[RestInPeace]

Angled F-Tilts, I think we said.

And how do you SDI Fox' Dair?

 

[Linguini]

Stupid question, but what do I do when fox/falco try to f-b back to the stage? If they are coming from above all they have to do is wait a split-second and they have a free sweet-spot attempt so prediction is dodgy at best, and it none of ganon's quicker attacks (jab) really knock them out of the illusion. What can I do/

Jab or bair, both are quick; and yeah jab is fast enough to catch the illusion, to be honest it's my favorite method of edge guarding idiots who illusion above the ledge because it sends them low which means an easy dropzone fair or dair. Just get used to the timing,most spacies have their own individual timing, it just takes a match or two to adapt to it.

Ace, chops lives in GA, now I have no one to play around here. And im his only true apprentice lol.

 

[spider_sense]

Jab or bair, both are quick; and yeah jab is fast enough to catch the illusion, to be honest it's my favorite method of edge guarding idiots who illusion above the ledge because it sends them low which means an easy dropzone fair or dair. Just get used to the timing,most spacies have their own individual timing, it just takes a match or two to adapt to it.

Ace, chops lives in GA, now I have no one to play around here. And im his only true apprentice lol.

lol yeah right -sarcasm-. Anyways, yeah jab the illusion but watch for how they up-b, make sure you evaluate the situation before jumping out there, because being to rash can lead you to mess up.

Also I've been messing with the wall-tech to bair. It's soooo good! I implore everyone to start learning to do that.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

Guini I'm gonna have the Fox Falco portions done by tonight and if you wouldn't mind I'd like to get your take on how to approach and avoid being combo'd. I know I asked you this a million times I just wanna get the info you put into the Falco part. Fox I been had a feel for but if you wanna comment on that awesome. This goes for any one though. If you guys wanna drop a line it'll help when putting this all together.

Also what not to do. Let me know what you guys feel you shouldn't do in this match up i.e. jump off stage prematurely vs Fox.

-Shines suck

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

Fox's speed is great but land dashes really do balance the movement on the playing field in spacing situations. The fact that you get punished if you whiff moves near Fox forces you to be accurate. Retreating fairs is a wonderful way to feel out your opponent and keep the space. It's a great counter for nair happy Foxs. Going aggressive vs Fox has to be pressure based. Utilizing jabs, tilts and uair works wonders for playing aggressive and pressuring Fox. Playing close has it's consequences if you miss spacing and don't apply pressure. You can get crossed over easy and get caught in heavy shield pressure. DIing away and CCing nairs and jabbing is a good way of avoiding Fox's heavy cross over game. When recovering unless you get a guaranteed sweet spot it's best to recover from above the stage and take the hits that follow if you can't get away with mind gaming a ledge grab. This match up is really tough until you get Fox in a teching situation. He doesn't tech roll far and dair follow ups can combo into something very damaging and a easy edge guard. To get Fox on his back you can use the basic hard hitting moves like fair, dair and bair and even dthrow to jab to get Fox on him teching. Gaining control in this match is hard but when you get your opportunities your few hits really do count when taken.

Any time you knock Fox offstage he should be dead. Generally you want to stay on the stage unless he up Bs too close but it is possible to use RLD and ledge hopped uairs to switch things up. On stage, your best edgeguards for a sweet spot attempt are reverse uair, dair and ftilt angled downward. Fox illusions that are done a bit above the ledge can be jabbed if you can't bair in time. If he is coming from underneath the stage and you know the up B will overshoot, bair is a great option. Stages like FD can let Fox ride his up B along the side of the stage to shorten the vert of his up B so understand which types of stages he won't be able to sweet spot on. If he decides to recover from above the stage bair is probably you best option. - ACE's analysis with a few extra notes. Thanks for a great analysis. His original post is more in-depth.

#1. Do not get off stage unnessecarily. It is an easy way to lose a stock at any percent to a shine spike.

Ganon's favor
Battle field
Jungle 64
Brinstar
Fox's favor
Fountain of dreams
Green greens
Toss up
Yoshi story
Final destination

Working on this now. This is what I have for Fox at the moment. As I'm working on the rest feel free to comment and suggest changes. Fox is a pretty play by play match up so it's kinda tough giving a walk through on approaches.

 

[RestInPeace]

Wouldn't FD be fine vs Fox if you want to tech chase him? Its easier to tech chase on FD.

 

[DippnDots]

Ganon's favor

Jungle **** (is that the barrel level?)

You're thinking Kongo Jungle 64, Jungle Japes has the flowing water / klaptrap. The only information i'm good for lol

 

[spider_sense]

Yo Tipman do you plan on putting all these matchups on the first page? Or you are you gonna make another thread with the more detailed explanations?

 

[-ACE-]

Wouldn't FD be fine vs Fox if you want to tech chase him? Its easier to tech chase on FD.

Sure, FD allows for endless tech chases, but I'd only recommend counterpicking it if you are very confident in your tech chasing ability. Not to mention your spacing has to really be on point. FD is basically Fox's playground aside from Green Greens lol. I usually don't counterpick it, but I never ban it. It kinda depends on your style.

 

[CluelessBTD]

And how do you SDI Fox' Dair?

I would probably just SDI behind fox by holding the joystick in that direction. Fox can still combo you from here, but it can confuse him if he was planning on just shining you or grabbing you in place from the Dair.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

Jason I'm updating the first post. I have Marth, Fox and Peach up so far. Just gotta do Falco now.

Dippn I thought that was it. I like that level.

Well I'm off to dig through Falco post and get this thing done. Anything anyone wants to add just post away. In the mean time you guys can talk about who to discuss next or just general Ganon stuff or what ever really.

 

[Linguini]

I like FD alot vs fox, vs campy ones it's surprisingly good. I have alot of space to fake out my approaches and bait him,and once I get a grab he's dead.

lol yesterday on fd i stomped to u smash a fox and he died at 65. When spacies and falcon dont DI the stomp **** them with it, it kills at ridiculously low percents.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=110007

Link to my old Q&A thread, it has some useful matchup stuff in there,check it out tommy.

 

[DippnDots]

Vs marth, if they grab you and are around 0 percent, if they up throw you then try to up tilt, you can ALWAYS at low percents jump outta it and come down with a Dair -> double hit Up smash -> uair, **** combo. If you can call their stall/air dodge or if they don't do anything on the way down you can even get a fair in afterwards. Seriously a good way to take them from 0 to 70% but don't plan on them making the mistake more than once.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

Falco can gain control of the match off the bat with his lasers. Getting close isn't the problem keeping good spacing and staying mobile in shield helps keeping Falco from cross you over. Full jumping over his lasers can occasionally land you easy fairs or dairs. It's best though to keep your approach ground based when being camped. Dealing with his pillar game can be very frustrating but shield grabbing him during it is possible as long as you grab quick enough he won't be able to even get a dair off on you by starting it the moment he leaves the ground going upwards. If he short hops into a dair afterward he will get grabbed, and if he full jumps out of the shine he will get grabbed if his jump a frame too slow or if he hit you with a shine recently giving it less hit lag and shield stun. JC shines are able to hit you though if you simply try to shield grab the shine normally. Holding away helps here in two ways. One is if you do happen to get hit by a shine, he'll be very unlikely to get a good combo off of it in that situation. 2nd is that by holding away, your shield ASDI will almost always put you out of range of any JC shines he may do after the 1st and you'll grab him. If done right, it pretty much leaves him with full jumping out of his shine and WDing away out of the shine or he will get grabbed. If you get combo'd it is best to DI away and make sure you tech when you get the chance. Teching in place or not tech at all will result in you getting worked hard. When you get Falco on his back, just like Fox, his tech roll is short and he will get hit into some damaging combos if you land a dair or pop him onto a platform with any aerial. It's tough to get your turn to deal the damage so you want to make sure you read his rolls well. Thanks to Magus' shield grabbing pillar analysis. Very helpful. His original post is more in-depth. Linguini also has a great interpretation of the match. His post here.

Falco off stage at any percent always has a high KO possibility. When you get him off stage if he is above the edge watch to see if he is going to illusion or upB. Sweet spot illusion attempts can be edge guarded with angle down ftilts, reverse uair, dair and dtilt to fair. Jabs and bair are great for countering illusions that are above the edge. It is possible to edge guard holding the edge by using RLD and ledge hopped uairs to switch things up. At 0:35 is a good example in this match. When Falco is off stage in his upB animation jump out and trade hits. Most of the time he will fall to his death. You can use fair if he is about the edge and reverse uair or stomp if he is under. Stages like FD can let Falco ride his up B along the side of the stage to shorten the vert of his up B and keep him from over shooting the edge. He won't be doing this when you're near by but do keep in mind which types of stages he won't be able to do this on so you can decide whether you want to attack above the edge or the edge itself as you're racing to get the edge guard.

#1. Do not DI towards Falco during a pillar combo. DI away.
#2. Do not make it a habit to tech in place when spiked towards the ground during a combo. DI away or behind him.

Ganon's favor
Battle field
Brinstar
Jungle 64
Final destination
Falco's favor
Dreamland
Yoshi story
Pokemon stadium
Toss up
Mute city

Lol, Guini I already finished the combat strategies part. That old thread is still useful though. I didn't read Magus post until I started typing up the Falco part and danm that was very useful info. Just to make sure I read it right when Falco is pillaring you his second shine has less hitstun then the first?

Also Falco levels. Guini and I are kinda opposite in this. I know he likes FD and I do aswell but Battlefield is my baby and if I remember right Guini doesn't like that vs Falco.

Maybe today or tomorrow I'll have C.Falcon completely done. I'll post it up and if there is anything that should be added or changed on it just let me know so we can move on the the next. It might be Sheik or Jiggs or DK.