Ganon vs.

[SynikaL]

That's a possibility, but I doubt many experienced players will tech in place after being launched onto a platform when fighting Marth.


-Kye

 

[DippnDots]

Yeah, you have to be in the middle too, or slightly to one side. I dont think you have enough time to wavedash -> tipper even if they tech roll

 

[spider_sense]

@ Kye wtf is your avatar suppose to be? Cheshire cat or some ****?

@ Forum discussion - I would honestly opt for teching away, I would rather get grab and take 5-8% from his throw, than take a cool 15-20% from a forward smash that could send me off the edge, also remember that there's the option of DIing away. Marth is severely limited if he can't get you into combos.

 

[Pyrostormer]

I think we should discuss Counterpicks for each character when we discuss the matchups. Just an idea, but does anyone agree?

Also, if you DI Marths B-throw up, you may be able to up air out of it depending on your percent.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

I'll be tossing an update and my thoughts on this match Sunday or so.

Pyro when you lost as Ganon pick him again. This is the Ganon boards, we don't give a fvck about any other character.:uzi:

Spider thats a picture of what Kye would look like if he were black.

 

[SynikaL]

Jason:

Believe it or not, that's actually me.


-Cheshire Black.
(Blacker than Black)

 

[RestInPeace]

Someone mentioned earlier that a drop zone Uair is good to edgeguard a Marth. Would you run down straight, or turn around first and do a reverse Uair?

 

[DippnDots]

you just run off and uair so when it goes around you'll tippy-toe him.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

None of that makes sense. You can't dthrow run off uair Marth unless maybe your back is turned towards the edge and he DI's behind you. In which case you should just bair.

 

[RestInPeace]

I was just talking about random edgeguards, maybe as a follow-up after you hit them off the stage with an aerial. I've done the follow-up thing before with a Uair, but with the front part of it.

I think we mis-used the term "drop zone". My bad lol. I meant just run-off attacks, and assumed that's what the other guy meant.

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah it was in my mini list of anti-Marth tactics. Depending on Marth's position and whether he has used his jump or not, it can be highly effective. Usually it comes in handy as a punishment for when marth uses his jump too soon while recovering. And by drop zone uair I mean run off and uair, hitting Marth with the initial frames of the uair and not the tip of his toe.

Edit: I should have added that this isn't smart when Marth is at low percent, as he can sometimes get the ledge before you and you will undoubtedly receive the ledgehop dair lol.

 

[KILLA.FOR.CASH.]

marth will get shieldstabbed all day in this matchup. ganon has a 65 advantage

 

[RestInPeace]

How do you guys shield poke Marths? I normally do it with a Fair, wrapping my whole arm around him. Its easier to aim, but if their shield isn't small enough you get shield grabbed.

 

[SynikaL]

marth will get shieldstabbed all day in this matchup. ganon has a 65 advantage

LOL, what?


-Kimo

 

[KILLA.FOR.CASH.]

if u dont think marth has a disadvantage then loll

just ask kage how he does vs mew2king's marth

he beats it alot

why do u think mew2king went shiek vs kage at genesis?

 

[SynikaL]

if u dont think marth has a disadvantage then loll

"Lol" isn't that convincing, cogent or coherent an argument.

just ask kage how he does vs mew2king's marth

he beats it alot

why do u think mew2king went shiek vs kage at genesis?

I'll admit I read your initial post wrong. I thought you said "Shield Grabbed". Yeah, Marth's shield sucks, especially in this matchup. It causes him much heartache, especially on platforms.

I've seen vids of M2K fighting Ganon, and while it's not the most objective barometer of his talent in this matchup, he didn't seem like he had much experience fighting Ganon. Of course he wins because he's M2K, but still.

It's a numbers game really: Every Ganon is more likely to be experienced in fighting Marth than vice versa due to character ratios.

You're going to have to highlight more than that gimmick to convince me, though.


I'd like to see Kage elaborate on this.


-Kimo

 

[Renth]

Why do people try to argue with Synikal? I've seen it a lot lately and everytime I see it... its like... why?

 

[Pi]

Why do people try to argue with Synikal? I've seen it a lot lately and everytime I see it... its like... why?

I think synikal has the best way of internet rebuttal

Any way

You ganon mains should give me samus tips in the matchup
I feel like I can outspace you with Ftilts/Utilts and UB OoS seems to be effective
Granted you can pawnch thru my missiles and fair through my FCS but many characters have move to negate missiles, that doesn't stop them from getting through

So tell me your secrets gannys! What are ganons weaknesses in this matchup

pweeeeeeese

 

[RestInPeace]

Are you going on every board asking for tips? I just saw you on the mango thread.

And no one answered me yet. How do you guys shield poke Marths?

 

[Renth]

You ganon mains should give me samus tips in the matchup
I feel like I can outspace you with Ftilts/Utilts and UB OoS seems to be effective
Granted you can pawnch thru my missiles and fair through my FCS but many characters have move to negate missiles, that doesn't stop them from getting through

So tell me your secrets gannys! What are ganons weaknesses in this matchup

pweeeeeeese

Ganons have weaknesses?

KnihT click the links below theres my advice.

Tip 1 Click here!!!!

Tip 2 ZomG

Are you going on every board asking for tips? I just saw you on the mango thread.

And no one answered me yet. How do you guys shield poke Marths?

Shield pokes are situational there's no 100% way to shield poke everytime, I often shield poke peoples feet through their shields with down airs.

 

[SynikaL]

Other than D. Air, Ganon's most reliable Shield Poke move should be Bair. Especially on Marth. Marth's shield only needs to be at about 80% before Bairs get through the top of his shield, where his tiara is.


-Kimo

 

[DippnDots]

can you poke their feet if they angle it up?

 

[Dorsey]

Why do people try to argue with Synikal? I've seen it a lot lately and everytime I see it... its like... why?

Very true, I only recently found this out.

Yeah it's situational. There is no set way to shield poke unless your opponent misuses or doesn't move their shield. So it's more so a mind game of getting him to mess up with his shield and not the actual shield poke, assuming both players are somewhat proficient at it.

 

[spider_sense]

haha @ Kye's avatar Cheshire Black. You silly kid. =P

@ Renth - They haven't seen Kye IRL, once they do, they probably won't step up to him. lol...except for me! >=(

Also from what I gathered, the bair goes through a lot of Marth's moves, if spaced properly, you can bair through his neutral, when Marth makes his decent. Tilts are VERY good for shield poking imo. And offers the high reward/low risk idea. If Marth (or anybody else for that matter) is on a platform, you can wait for them to block and then you your up-angled tilt to hit their feet, and the knock back is reasonable, depending on the percent of course. So yeah...tilts and bairs (well spaced) are excellent tools for shield poking. :3

 

[Dorsey]

@ spider_sense: LOL.

My shield pokes are normally with tilts and fairs with ganon. Angling the ftilt owns for it, and I didn't know that about the platform scenario, good info.

 

[-ACE-]

Ganon vs Marth is 65/35 in Ganon's favor? West coast guys have a good sense of humor lol

Kage plays kind of patient imo and knows the range of Ganon's hitboxes very well, which is really important in the matchup. He knows how to shield poke also, but most of all I think his DI often gives him the upper hand in the matchup. Too many Ganons get multiple-fair combo'd by marth, and they shouldn't.

 

[RestInPeace]

Go Canada for the DI

 

[KILLA.FOR.CASH.]

yeah when i was money matching kage, i asked him how the matchup goes

he told me that ganon counters marth

his reasoning was

marth cant combo ganon (seriously, he cant. and the few combos he DOES have on ganon arent very effective.. the most ull get is like dair > fsmash at high percents)

ganon hits marth like twice and its game over. reverse uair edgeguards never miss.

ill upload my money matches with kage as soon as i get the footage back from my friend. but kage does some nice things to my marth which ive never seen before

 

[-ACE-]

Ganon is not a marth counter. I know Kage is knowledgeable and experienced, but "counter" would imply that Marth has a distinct disadvantage in the matchup (basically that Ganon ***** Marth). This is not the case.

 

[CluelessBTD]

Edit: I should have added that this isn't smart when Marth is at low percent, as he can sometimes get the ledge before you and you will undoubtedly receive the ledgehop dair lol.

Sort of like this, but it's a failed ledgedrop Uair
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRktHlZKX6Q#t=2m24s

ganon hits marth like twice and its game over. reverse uair edgeguards never miss.

You just aren't making your recovery unpredictable. There are a number of things you can do to throw off his timing on the Uair. Late aerial Side-B, sweetspot perfectly, or Up-B too high and a bit further from the stage to hit his foot before he can hit you.
The reverse Uair requires precise timing, which can make it a bit more error prone I think. Lightshield edgehog will screw a Marth, however.

 

[pkmvodka]

if u dont think marth has a disadvantage then loll

just ask kage how he does vs mew2king's marth

he beats it alot

why do u think mew2king went shiek vs kage at genesis?

Sorry but it simply means that m2k has an easier time vs ganon with sheik because it's an easier matchup. Most marths that play VS kage are doing it wrong. You guys just need to figure out how to beat ganon, it's difficult at first so I guess it's normal for you to say that ganon ***** marth when in fact it's probably 55/45 for marth or at most even.

In this matchup, as marth, I play patient and wait, and when I get an opening I go into ganon's range and try to rack up damage or kill. Also, don't let him come back, down air him in his wizard foot and ****. Don't use nair, it sucks. Don't double fair, you'll get punished via CC. Go for grabs and ****.

I loled at kage saying that marth has no combo on ganon, quite cute.

 

[CluelessBTD]

And no one answered me yet. How do you guys shield poke Marths?

The back top half of Marth's head is exposed without light shield. You can hit it with a Bair or Fair, but you have to make sure to hit his head before the hitbox touches his shield or it won't work.

 

[KILLA.FOR.CASH.]

reverse upair edgeguards arent hard at all

also pkm u know how to fight ganon better than almost anybody so ill just agree 100% with u lol

and ill go for the grabs and **** next time i play kage lol

 

[Pi]

Yea I'm going to character boards and asking for samus advice T.T

Any way, the samus ganon matchup looks fun lol

Are you ganons going to FL Gaming? I'd really like to get some matches in with you

I noticed phanna wasn't using a lot of UB's, is this because ganon is able to punish them?

 

[spider_sense]

Yea I'm going to character boards and asking for samus advice T.T

Any way, the samus ganon matchup looks fun lol

Are you ganons going to FL Gaming? I'd really like to get some matches in with you

I noticed phanna wasn't using a lot of UB's, is this because ganon is able to punish them?

I might go to FL Gaming, if I can get a ride, if I do show up. Look for a sexy black dude rockin' a small fro. lol

 

[Pi]

I might go to FL Gaming, if I can get a ride, if I do show up. Look for a sexy black dude rockin' a small fro. lol

Haha, will do

 

[KIngGerudo]

Other than D. Air, Ganon's most reliable Shield Poke move should be Bair. Especially on Marth. Marth's shield only needs to be at about 80% before Bairs get through the top of his shield, where his tiara is.


-Kimo

dont forget to forwardb, marth slides far enough to where he can't shield grab and easily sets up for a forward tilt.

You just aren't making your recovery unpredictable. There are a number of things you can do to throw off his timing on the Uair. Late aerial Side-B, sweetspot perfectly, or Up-B too high and a bit further from the stage to hit his foot before he can hit you.
The reverse Uair requires precise timing, which can make it a bit more error prone I think. Lightshield edgehog will screw a Marth, however.

this is very much true, an unpredictable recovery from marth means a tipman spike isnt 100% guaranteed. going higher than the ledge will usually trade hits with ganon which will just help him. saving your sideb also helps. you can always just learn to tech it.
sidenote: working on lightshield+tipman spike fusion timing.

I noticed phanna wasn't using a lot of UB's, is this because ganon is able to punish them?

with proper DI, ganon can punish the landing lag from the upb. although im not sure about this on FoD and DL64
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1233 post status

 

[SynikaL]

Marth can actually combo Ganon quite viciously regardless of Ganon's DI -- it just takes a sh*t ton of practice and precision. 98% of Marths suck at comboing with him (actual statistic).


-Syn

 

[-ACE-]

Tip Ganon cannot chaingrab Falcon if he DI's left/right. That should be deleted from the guide imo.

 

[CluelessBTD]

Tip Ganon cannot chaingrab Falcon if he DI's left/right. That should be deleted from the guide imo.

Agreed with Dthrow, but what about Up-throw? I haven't tested, but it sounds reasonable.