Game & Watch Match-up Export Thread Directory

[UTDZac]

Why's that furbs? =) I'll cheat and give me opinion on the matchup right now. 6:4 G&W.

Anyway, about Toon Link. I can't make up my mind. I think i'll just use a different character, like Donkey Kong or something. I can't figure out the G&W matchup. =/

Grr...

 

[cutter]

I agree with 6:4. It looks like the matchup would be a complete wash-out for G&W on paper, but Yoshi's grab game (especially his pivot grab) is quite disruptive against G&W. At least that's what my experience has been playing Tornadicus (a friend of mine who plays Yoshi).

People still have a stigma against Yoshi about how he's bad, but he really isn't. He's not that bad.

 

[Motel Vacaville of the West]

Yoshi is a lot like Melee Samus, just won't die SA is a bad itch to get past

On Toon Link...

It's mainly what like everyone previously said, it's more of Toon Link spacing you if anything.

B-Air can eat away Boomerang, but not Toon Link's Bombs.

I personally like to approach with F-Air in this match-up, solely because of the knock-back it possess. But I hate being Shield Grabbed out of every aerial, but Up-B solves that problem easily.

My big thing I always fall for though is Toon Link's B-Air. I play with NorCal's premier Toon Link main Questionmark, and he always get's me in the B-Air -> B-Air - B-Air -> D-Air(spike).

So if anything, my main problem with Toon Link is if he gets in your face.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yoshi, predict any aerial or Down-B and Up-smash. = dead. Works especially well as he is recovering if he's going on stage. If he tries to edgecamp, edgehog and do a ledgedrop B-air or Judgement. If you powershield an egg toss up close, = free F-air. All in all you're going to be powershielding a lot in this matchup to minimize lag against his camping and abusing the fact you can score the KO a lot more safely.

And lastly this matchup sucks a ton online. Simply cause you can't powershield or space under lag.

Yoshi isn't bad compared to say...someone like Captain Falcon, but he's still not very good overall since he doesn't have any safe KO moves and his edgeguarding is limited. Along with Mario, Samus, and Sonic, he's probably in a similar rank to them. They're not all that good of characters, but ok in certain matchups.

 

[Noa.]

While Yoshi, Mario and Sonic are similar in tier placement, Samus is significantly lower. Just imo.

 

[Tatty_bonga]

Gagh, Snake is so friggen broken, who the heck kills people with tilts and jab combo's, I mean seriously! Its just not fair, lol.

...but anyway.

NEW DISCOVERY!


BUT! I did find something pretty bizarre. So here it is.
Okay, if Snake plants a land mine, we all know that Chef, can cook-it, correct? Only problem is, is that the foods come out at random, which leaves you open while your trying to toss accurately.

Hope this isn't already known, :/.[/SIZE]

D-tilt eliminates his proximity mines effectively as well.

 

[Motel Vacaville of the West]

D-tilt eliminates his proximity mines effectively as well.

So does the Bucket.

 

[Tatty_bonga]

So does the Bucket.

D-tilt is faster, the bucket takes anywhere from 50(not collecting energy) to 60(when collecting) frames, and d-tilt is around 25 or so frames.

 

[omegablackmage]

these updates are gunna be moving slower, mainly because these rediscussions aren't going to unearth a whole lot of new things about the matchups, maybe tidbits here and there. moving on though

new stuff about this matchup i have come across...

ddd's will use their bair to trade hits with your bair 3 <<< 13 %, so don't do it if they are in position to counter.

swallows are becoming more prevalent in ddd play, to get aerial grabs much in the same way wario would with his bite. nairs are great counters for this if you can anywhere under them.

ftilt is an excellent spacing tool for ddd, but gw's above average air speed probably lets him punish it more often than not.

thats all if got for now, anyone got vids vs high lvl ddd's like atomsk/co18/lain?

 

[Gates]

Now you discuss the King...

This matchup isn't really that bad for Dedede. It's not good, but it's not as bad as Ice Climbers or something.

Bairs trade. And by "trade" I mean "Dedede takes 3% while G&W takes like 15%".
Using the momentum caused by the trampoline on the upB makes it easy for us to follow you with an aerial.
If you DI up out of a dthrow to prepare to upB, we can regrab you apparently (Fogo said this and I haven't tested it).

I'd say either keep it at 60:40 or 55:45. If you want to be dumb about it you can do 57:43 or some stupid **** like that.

 

[Noa.]

You have to space bair perfectly, or he'll shield grab you.

His recovery is preditcable and slightly vulnerable, which allows you to punish it.

I think it's 60:40 or 55:45. 60:40 seems like too much, but 55:45 is too little.

 

[FakeGeorge]

I think the matchup is close, but in G&W's favor. 55-45 sounds about right.

As far as stuff I haven't seen explicitly mentioned:

Whenever a DDD tries to Dair you while you're on the ground, just shield and punish with Up B. If you're in the air and time it right, Up B can beat out DDD's dair because of the invincibility. If you can get him above you, there's not a lot that DDD can do.

I really like Battlefield in this matchup. I think it's because the platforms are placed well for pressuring/ chaining with Nairs. It's good to remember that Dtlit will hit a standing/ walking DDD that's on the bottom level when you're on the lower platforms. The same thing works on stages with lowish platforms like Lylat. It can be a nice surprise that'll get some free damage now and again.

 

[Motel Vacaville of the West]

Battlefield is my only "real" cp for this match-up.

Like everyone said previously, you impede DDD's movement with the platforms, and it's easy to N-Air chain/juggle. You can also D-Air through the platforms, which can out-prioritize his U-Tilt.

My real problem against D3 is fighting him on a flat stage like Final Destination.

Like OBM said, for ever B-Air G&W throws, D3 throws 3 B-Air's.

Also, there's the presence of being Shield Grabbed, and Gordo's. The only thing I find myself having against D3, is N-Air.

So my main question is....

What's the safest way to approach Kind Dedede?

 

[Noa.]

For a counterpick stage, I think Norfair works best. It's not large and flat at all, and the platforms are great for hitting DDD with nairs. My favorite counterpick stage against him.

 

[Motel Vacaville of the West]

Norfair sounds good, all it is is platforms.

A new problem for me against D3, is D-Throw -> D-Smash

Basically, D3 D-Throws, walks over slowly, and D-Smashes you while you get up. It also makes it hard because after each D-Throw, G&W is on his stomach, making your recovery slow and it takes longer to Up-B out of it.

I really hate being Grabbed/Shield Grabbed/Pivot Grabbed by that fat penguin

 

[Noa.]

If you DI up as he throws you, you can UpB to escape such a trick.

 

[Hylian]

I think this match-up is even, but I have limited experience in it honestly :/.

 

[Gates]

As far as approaching King Dedede goes, I'd say probably wait until he's in a position where he can't bair your bair and approach him with bair then. If you space it well enough you won't get shieldgrabbed and you should apply a lot of shield pressure.

 

[Matt07]

Hi Game and Watch boards.

The Mario boards are discussing you for our match-up thread. All opinions are welcomed .

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=227291

Oops forget link, my bad.

 

[Buuman]

Nair DDD, whenever possible. The only options D3 has in the air when he's directly above GW is

a. Fall air dodge
b. Dair
c. Inhale
d. Down B (less feasible)

D3 is very vulnerable in the air, if his back is not faced towards you. Be wary, that his Up air will eat through your key, and his dair will out prioritize everything you try from underneath. Punish D3 when he's recovering, that's when he's most vulnerable.

And DI up and up B out of D3s down throw.

 

[omegablackmage]

a few personal experiences i have against ddd, some maybe be known, others not maybe:

• up air really really hurts ddd, this is mainly because of his poor air movement speed. You'll also find that this works against snake too, but ddd doesn't have any very good options like snake does (c4 sometimes) to get out. Yeah the dair works, but if the gw learns to read that you will probably eat an fsmash or something of the like.
• nair is amazing, and make sure you play on stages with lots of platforms. DDD cannot handle being on a platform above gw, and he gets ***** every time he's there. Learn to apply the most shield pressure when in that situation, sh nair - jump nair - falling up air almost always pushes them off the platform, and from there their options are to jump (jump and nair them) or they fall on the ground and get fsmashed.
• DDD IS capable of punishing all of your tech options from the dthrow. If you di up and up b towords, you get up air'd and if you up b away im pretty sure they can chase and hit you with a fair. Any other tech option is punishable as always, although gw is probbaly the hardest for ddd to punish.
• DDD has a hard time getting kills when he needs to. Uptilt and bair are the only reliable ones. Learn to avoid the uptilt just like you would avoid snakes, make really good use of zoning.
• You can always avoid a grab with a bair, just don't over do it because they have a pretty quick roll, which can put you in a bad situation.

 

[Gates]

Dedede's dsmash is also a pretty good option.

 

[napZzz]

DDD is worthless if you stick to bair as your main aerial, just make sure you're spacing it correctly and auto canceling it most of the time.

From my experience with DDD vs. game and watch, dair usually is an easy shield grab, and nair is hard to get around when you use it right.

Fair can actually **** DDD off stage if you knock him off far enough. Seriously guys, this isn't that hard.

 

[Motel Vacaville of the West]

Anybody have anything on D3's D-Throw -> D-Smash?

Right now, it's more of a waiting game on when it's "safe" to get up and take advantage of G&W's invincibility frames to avoid the D-Smash.

 

[Neb]

The way I see it, everytime DDD challenges you in the air, he's going to take 'chute to the body, or nair/bair spaced at the tip of his toe. If your retreating bair correctly, using your FH and SJ for more distance he shouldn't be able to stuff your approach, or get-off a shield grab. Always end your bairs in the air against him unless guaranteed a hit.

 

[Buuman]

Anybody have anything on D3's D-Throw -> D-Smash?

Right now, it's more of a waiting game on when it's "safe" to get up and take advantage of G&W's invincibility frames to avoid the D-Smash.

DI up, and Up b to get out of the tech animation.

 

[Motel Vacaville of the West]

DI up, and Up b to get out of the tech animation.

I guess that makes sense, thanks.

 

[UTDZac]

DI up, and Up b to get out of the tech animation.

This doesn't work, DDD can ftilt before you UpB begins.

Tricks to get out of DDD dthrow tech chasing:

On the first dthrow, hold down. This will make you hit the ground earlier. Tech and roll backwards. Most DDDs will not punish you if this is the first thing you do. If you roll away (the direction you were thrown) it's very easy for the DDD to follow up and grab. Also avoid teching in place.

If you miss the tech, alternate between getup attack and just standing up. Getup attack to avoid DDD's dash attack. Stand up followed by UpB makes it nearly impossible for the DDD to grab you.

 

[Motel Vacaville of the West]

But still after the D-Throw, G&W is on his stomach, making his recovery animation slow.

I'd much rather take a F-Tilt than a D-Smash any day.

 

[Ruuku]

I only have a few things to say from the G&W perspective from the few times I played Seibrik's DDD (he doesn't even play as DDD anymore):

1) You may get hit by ftilt, dtilt, utilt, grabs, and maybe down smash. Not much else.

2) You are likely to kill DDD off the stage instead of on the stage.

3) Platforms hurt DDD's game.

4) Keeping DDD above you hurts his game.

5) Watch out for utilts and dtilts.

6) DDD's neutral B can be annoying too.

 

[Buuman]

This doesn't work, DDD can ftilt before you UpB begins.

Tricks to get out of DDD dthrow tech chasing:

On the first dthrow, hold down. This will make you hit the ground earlier. Tech and roll backwards. Most DDDs will not punish you if this is the first thing you do. If you roll away (the direction you were thrown) it's very easy for the DDD to follow up and grab. Also avoid teching in place.

If you miss the tech, alternate between getup attack and just standing up. Getup attack to avoid DDD's dash attack. Stand up followed by UpB makes it nearly impossible for the DDD to grab you.

You're ********. I'm giving the guy a way to escape a tech chase to down smash. What I said was, GW can be propped into the air before he hits the ground. What you just said, was hit the ground, so you can tech it. Think before you write. F tilt will hit yes, however, the question was, "How can you get out of down throw to down smash tech"

 

[Gates]

I only have a few things to say from the G&W perspective from the few times I played Seibrik's DDD (he doesn't even play as DDD anymore)

Don't remind me

1) You may get hit by ftilt, dtilt, utilt, grabs, and maybe down smash. Not much else.

And his aerials. Bair is the one you'll be hit by most, with uair and fair a close second, and dair an even closer fourth. Nair isn't used very often by many Dededes but it could still pop up occasionally.

 

[Jman115]

How do you approach a DDD? I was playing one the other day and it seemed like all of my approaches ended in him grabbing me. I tried bairs, dairs and nairs. I stood no chance at a shield approach.

 

[Tero.]

How do you approach a DDD? I was playing one the other day and it seemed like all of my approaches ended in him grabbing me. I tried bairs, dairs and nairs. I stood no chance at a shield approach.

learn to space.

 

[Motel Vacaville of the West]

For laughs, you can constantly D-Tilt.

D3 can't approach you head on while you D-Tilt. I guess I need to apply it more in my game.

 

[Ruuku]

For laughs, you can constantly D-Tilt.

D3 can't approach you head on while you D-Tilt. I guess I need to apply it more in my game.

I would assume that he could dash in, powershield, then grab.

 

[FakeGeorge]

DeDeDe can just F-tilt. It outranges G&W's Dtilt.

 

[Noa.]

How do you approach a DDD? I was playing one the other day and it seemed like all of my approaches ended in him grabbing me. I tried bairs, dairs and nairs. I stood no chance at a shield approach.

If you space properly, DDD shouldn't be able shieldgrab your bair or fair.

 

[Motel Vacaville of the West]

We can all agree it's safer to fight DDD in the air, correct?

 

[Gates]

If you're under him, yes. If you're next to him with his back facing away, maybe not. The rest is either in your favor or even.