A2Z... I doubt you've played a really good Snake since you last started talking about this matchup... You really need to understand that this matchup sounds ALOT better in theory for game and watch because he does have feasible options, but he still gets owned pretty hard by smart snakes.
Why would you though? It's smarter to leave it in front of you to trap G&W if he actually wants to approach from there. If you try to throw it at him he's more likely to not get hit by that....
The problem with Snake's F-tilt up close is it isn't safe on block unless he spaced it at maximum range.
Ftilt is VERY safe against game and watch! What are you talking about? If you don't power shield it, how are you going to punish it? Okay, let's look at a few options.
Snake uses the first part of ftilt and hits gdubs shield. Gdubs can dtilt, shfair, fhfair, running attack, shbair. If Snake just uses the second part of his ftilt, he will beat ALL of these options except running attack, which will just clank, but will leave gdubs right next to snake, which isn't a good spot to be in. Or, he can wait a few extra frames, and throw out the first part of ftilt again, and gdubs will be in the same position (but now with less shield). Or if the Snake is at very high %s, he probably will just shield, and if he sees you try to bair he'll run away or mortar slide or something.
Not to mention... Snake will probably be using ftilt alot to PUNISH, not just to toss it out. If he's just tossing out an attack, he'll just jab instead, which is even harder to punish. And if he lands with the jab, the ftilt will come next, and there goes 1/3 gdubs stock.
Yeah, getting a grab is pretty lame on G&W. Then again, it's not necessarily easy if he knows how to space. You're more likely to just F-tilt or U-tilt out of shield for him not spacing optimally.
I'm assuming you are saying is Snake more likely to ftilt or utilt oos? While those options are viable, Snakes grab is very good, especially because gdubs (and others) have to shield alot because they fear the wrath of the tilts. Snake will get ALOT of grabs off against gdubs.
I'm pretty sure though that the B-air can be spaced outside of the range of Snake's tilts. Plus...if you're not grenade shielding, regardless who you are, you DO have to consider the B-air's ability to shield poke. Snake's shield is also susceptible to his own pressure from grenades so his shield usually shouldn't be 100% full.
Well, this is true. However, spacing correctly against Snake is harder than it sounds. He can pull out grenades on something stupid like frame 2, so even if it looks bleak, he'll just pull out a nade. And even if he can't shield it, if both of you get hit by a nade, this is a good thing for Snake... Seriously, if Snake is using grenades well and not staying in the same spot/being predictable, it's not easy to get a well spaced bair in. And even if you DO, great, 7 or 8% damage or something? Maybe even 10? Great, you've still got a long way to go before killing snake.
Fullhop aerials just saying are pretty safe on Snake's shield since they put G&W a good distance above Snake's U-tilt range.
Yup. unless he's shielding a nade.
The thing is though, Snake has to keep moving away from G&W for his camping to be safe. Unless he gets a lucky mortar slide in, he's going to have trouble playing this retreating game and eventually G&W's B-air starts becoming a safe attack when the multiple hits are used to push someone who is shielding off the edge.
Snake doesn't have to much trouble playing the retreating game against gdubs. Trust me. With a correct use of nades, and gdubs poor aerial movement speed, it's hard for gdubs to space correctly. Snake controls the stage, not gdubs.
Personally me, I think it's just as easy to land G&W's F-air as it is to land Snake's U-tilt. Kills most people at around 110%, probably around 125% for Snake give or take some depending on position.
Okay, this is where classic A2Z syndrome starts seeping in. G&W fair as easy to land as Snake's Utilt? You're rediculous, I'm not going to even argue that one. Gdubs fair does NOT kill Snake at 125%... Snake can DI, and this won't kill him, unless he's real near a blast zone. Not to mention, your fair probably will be somewhat stale...
When Snake is recovering, avoiding G&W's Smashes and aerials (not to mention Judgement) is actually an issue. If G&W reads any move correctly, he can usually get a Smash on Snake which kills at like 90%.
Yes, if Snake is in the air, he will have a hard time avoiding gdubs. However Snake still has alot of choices. He can Nair (punishable, but still can pose problems). He can up b if he needs more space to work. He can pull nades out if he's high enough, (or even forward b), and there will be some additional explosives to avoid. He can also pivot (this is the kicker), which makes it MUCH MUCH harder to kill Snake on the way down. Also, he can also just pull out a nade if he's in danger of being juggled, because you'll both get hit by the nade, and as usual, this is bad for gdubs.
If gdubs reads any move correctly, he CAN get a smash, but not
USUALLY. If gdubs predicts an airdodge and is below him, yes he can get an usmash. (But this isn't easy! Snakes will pivot!) And this usmash won't kill at 90 unless the Snake can't DI or the ceiling is low, or you're on a platform or something. If you Powershield a falling bair, I believe you can get a fsmash(won't kill Snake until 120ish probably) or dsmash, but if you just regularly shield it, only dsmash (usually sourspotted), and that won't kill until like 140. Yes, landing smashes on Snake is feasible... But it's not as easy as you make it sound!
Really seriously, the matchup isn't THAT bad for G&W.
Yeah, it's pretty bad.
It's just a huge chore since G&W has to work more carefully due to Snake having more weight and raw power. In terms of options, G&W has enough to put things in his favor against Snake if he plays smart.
No, it's not just a chore. Gdubs will have to
consistently outplay his opponent, and make practically no mistakes.
It is definitely a very difficult matchup for G&W...I don't think however Snake has enough to consistently shut down G&W to warrant the matchup being any worse than 6/4 though.
Snake has plenty of things that shutdown Gdubs. Perhaps he can't shutdown everything gdubs has, but the important thing to realize is that if Snake just punishes gdubs a few time, gdubs is probably getting owned. He doesn't need to consistently shut down gdubs, just shut him down like 1 out of 4 gdubs approaches.
Let's discuss Diddy now. I don't know the matchup, and I'm curious what people have to say.
