JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
well i main peach too lol. but i think i'd like to hear about mario and Lucario first. IMO Fox isn't that easy as Peach its not hard but its not just easy win, i say 50:50 -45:55 Peach. the match is quite fun to me.
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Fox Match-Up General Discussion
- Thread starter M@v
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M@v
Subarashii!
Peach can CG fox to about 30% >_>
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
yeah somewhere around 30-35% but then she has to tilt him away or he can jump escape. Fox must love to be grabbed lol.
God**** Peaches.
55:45 Peach.
The CG provides a slight advantage - everything else is about even. It's not as likely that Peach will get a grab in on Fox at the very beginning of each stock, so it's not as bad as it seems.
Turnaround~Slap~
55:45 Peach.
The CG provides a slight advantage - everything else is about even. It's not as likely that Peach will get a grab in on Fox at the very beginning of each stock, so it's not as bad as it seems.
Turnaround~Slap~
Fenrir VII
Smash Master
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A 0-30 cg is like nothing... I mean, it's a useful move, but you can put it right back on her. Not too devastating.
gantrain05
Smash Master
it can lead to chaingrab to 30% then a turnaround Ftilt into an Utilt, or if fox DI's away she can float cancel a Fair.
Lightning93
Smash Champion
Still tilt's don't do that much damage, it's nowhere near Falco's CG which can lead into a spike if you're not careful, and Shiek's freaking tilt-lock.
Chileno4Live
Smash Ace
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Fox is really nerved from Melee, thats to bad. Though his Utilt is good, it doesn't lock like sheiks ftilt. Doesn't do much damage either, but you can combo from it.
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
peachs CG is just a situational little bonus, nothing more than than really. gimping is better on the peach end though and Fox doesn't exactly beat peach in the air, minus Fair. i say 50:50 still. but aren't we moving onto Mario? or since were already here keep to peach then move on.
Lightning93
Smash Champion
Lol we need M@V to direct us lol...
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
M@v wru we need some direction here lol.
Conviction
Human Nature
Lol M@v looks like we need you
Lightning93
Smash Champion
Look at us, asking for him at the board we were asking him to go in the first place. I'm just going to leave him a nice message.
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
i sent him a message too. lol we should all spam on him XD
Lightning93
Smash Champion
I already did my part ;P.
I'm just a bit upset because of the vast majority of "all-knowing" noobs on youtube. Can I get someone over here to defend my butt? I'm just trying to help, but everyone keeps on offending.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Dn4saH-6VQ&feature=email
Lol don't try to disprove anything I said wrong lol.
I'm just a bit upset because of the vast majority of "all-knowing" noobs on youtube. Can I get someone over here to defend my butt? I'm just trying to help, but everyone keeps on offending.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Dn4saH-6VQ&feature=email
Lol don't try to disprove anything I said wrong lol.
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
honestly i have no iead whats going on. it went from pits reflecting to MK: "OMG chepasouraus" lol
Lightning93
Smash Champion
Lol I know, that's just how people are sometimes, that's okay thanks for looking!
Conviction
Human Nature
I wrote an essay to save your butt you me XD
M@v
Subarashii!
I told you guys my time was going to be a lot more limited when I got to college. I am thinking Luigi is 35:65. Lets settle that first. Agreed?
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
35:65 weegeee sounds perfectly fine to me. im sending zelda on him then.
Toronto Joe
Smash Master
agreed.:bigthumbu
Conviction
Human Nature
I third that
Lightning93
Smash Champion
Thanks honey, sorry for picking on you so much in my combo video... you're so funny to fight some times.
And yee 35:65 sounds perfect.
Conviction
Human Nature
...........>.>
Lightning93
Smash Champion
I hope you weren't hoping that I'd forget lol.
Anyways, Oeach or Mario people? I personally have more experience against Marios, but we kind of already started on Peach... and I kind of want to get back to some serious discussion.
So shall we say peach?
Anyways, Oeach or Mario people? I personally have more experience against Marios, but we kind of already started on Peach... and I kind of want to get back to some serious discussion.
So shall we say peach?
Yanoss1313
Smash Journeyman
lol, yea peach sounds good................................................. >.>................... <.<............ yep!
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
yeah Peach and Fox are pretty even imo. its kinda like Zamus w/o the Dsmash and a little slower. both have combos and speed on their side, although Fox is overall faster, peach is still pretty quick. Utilt comboing kinda works like Luigi peach can Nair out of it so no Utilt happiness again. quite a few peachs start combos w/ Dair and Fox can get caught in it due to his fast falling, but if you shield it it can be punishable with things like OoS Usmash ot tilt.
in the air Peach is at the advantage with the exception of Foxs Fair. it seems that move can actually beat out her aerials quite a bit, at least that happens to me often if im not careful. on the ground SH low as possible is very good so peach can't go for antiairing with her Ftilt or Utilt and Fox moves quickly. when im peach i try not to take him on the ground so much anyway, unless hes Fair all my aerials.
gimping Fox can be easy or slightly challenging depending on how good the Fox player is on how to recover. as Peach i usually just float out with Nair, that beats sideB and trades with firefox if you use that. then there are turnip gimps. when i recovery against peach i hope she follows me out far enough that i can Fair jump her. when edguarding her UpB does have good priority, plus its weird to edgehog until your at higher percents. if you go for a shine spike and Peach is just falling or floating beware you have to hold shine cause Peach can toad it, and if you only click on shine you'll get hit.
camping eh i don't really consider that too good on either side. SHDL(TL) just a few points of damage Peach can shrug off and you can shine turnips away plus catch them. forward glidetoss happy peachs can be shined kinda easily though and gives an opening. if the peach player is one to run off and pull a turnip i'd shoot her a couple of times, but thats about it.
the CG. its nothing big, at max it can only get you like 50% and its not a big part of peachs game. its just a little random bonus at low percents to look out for.
Stages with platforms give some peachs problems, but not all. corneria is good thanks to the low ceiling and Peach is light, plus not that many peachs go for/land Usmash KOs consistently anyway. peachs biggest CP might be jungle japes cause of the high ceiling Usmash KOs can be difficult.
i say 50:50 at max 45:55 Peach. but i really consider it pretty even.
in the air Peach is at the advantage with the exception of Foxs Fair. it seems that move can actually beat out her aerials quite a bit, at least that happens to me often if im not careful. on the ground SH low as possible is very good so peach can't go for antiairing with her Ftilt or Utilt and Fox moves quickly. when im peach i try not to take him on the ground so much anyway, unless hes Fair all my aerials.
gimping Fox can be easy or slightly challenging depending on how good the Fox player is on how to recover. as Peach i usually just float out with Nair, that beats sideB and trades with firefox if you use that. then there are turnip gimps. when i recovery against peach i hope she follows me out far enough that i can Fair jump her. when edguarding her UpB does have good priority, plus its weird to edgehog until your at higher percents. if you go for a shine spike and Peach is just falling or floating beware you have to hold shine cause Peach can toad it, and if you only click on shine you'll get hit.
camping eh i don't really consider that too good on either side. SHDL(TL) just a few points of damage Peach can shrug off and you can shine turnips away plus catch them. forward glidetoss happy peachs can be shined kinda easily though and gives an opening. if the peach player is one to run off and pull a turnip i'd shoot her a couple of times, but thats about it.
the CG. its nothing big, at max it can only get you like 50% and its not a big part of peachs game. its just a little random bonus at low percents to look out for.
Stages with platforms give some peachs problems, but not all. corneria is good thanks to the low ceiling and Peach is light, plus not that many peachs go for/land Usmash KOs consistently anyway. peachs biggest CP might be jungle japes cause of the high ceiling Usmash KOs can be difficult.
i say 50:50 at max 45:55 Peach. but i really consider it pretty even.
M@v
Subarashii!
Ok peach next. Im actually giving peach a slight advantage here, probably 45:55 peach, for one reason: she has a 30% CG on fox.
Jugz
Smash Apprentice
I play a ton vs a friend who mains peach, and yes I agree that its a slight peach advantage. Right after he CG she can land a f-tilt without many problems either. Other than that dair combos work well watch out for her jab as its lightning fast and can lead into that early CG.
gantrain05
Smash Master
i feel this discussion is going too much into peach's chaingrab....its nice but most pro peach's will tell you that they really aren't going to rely on it, basically what i see in this match is peach can combo fox, while fox cannot combo peach, so he really has to find openings and its not so easy with peach's floating and autocancelled arials, i don't think its even my opinion is 60-40 peach.
Unfortunately, my Peach vs Fox matchup experience is very limited. I've only fought one Fox- Uchiha- and only one match. To top it off, I had no matchup experience, had never even watched a Fox play before, and he'd fought with current best Peach in the world, Edrees, only weeks prior for several friendlies, as well as Sky. Needless to say, I lost badly, but it was more of a "what's going on?? I don't know this matchup and he does!" moment. Not to mention he's just really darn good xD
From a theoretical perspective, though, I'd put this matchup at 50-50 or 55-45 Peach's favor. I've since played a few Foxes online and learned a bit about the matchup. Peach's CG is fairly effective- while she can only CG to 25%, she can end it with an ftilt to take Fox to 40% after the last Dthrow passes 25%, and if the Fox DI's wrong or fails to DI she can land a second ftilt or a utilt afterwards.
Peach can get grabs easier than most as she can autocancel fair into a grab or a jab > grab, and can glide toss to grabs. However, the CG is a nice extra- it hardly makes the matchup. The CG is just a nice extra if the Fox gets sloppy.
Fox is very vulnerable to Dair combos because of his fast falling nature- Peach can cause a lot of damage, landing 40-50% off of a dair if she DI-chases properly. However, the biggest risk to Peach is that usmash, which will knock her right out of float- Peach should stop floating when she gets to around 70% for fear of this and play really defensively.
Peach can also gimp him offstage very, very easily. Nair comes out in two frames and will knock him right out of his side-B and send him back offstage. Bair also stops his side-B, and so do turnips. If the Peach predicts his recovery and upsmashes, his side-B carries him right into the sweetspot resulting in death at ~80% (yes, Peach's sweetspotted upsmash is similar in power to Fox's...but it's hard to sweetspot).
Peach also edgehogs his up-B easily- she can float against the ledge and release to instantly grab it with invulnerability frames. I do this to Falco's- and it's even less risky with Fox since I don't have to worry about getting side-B spiked if I mistime.
Generally, a Peach should throw a turnip and jump off stage. If Fox tries to recover with his side-B, she can nair him OR he'll hit the turnip. The turnip should be spaced to prevent him from reaching the ledge, so you can be ready with the nair. If he up-B's instead, he can be edgehogged.
So, Peach combos Fox well and gimps him well. That's her advantagse.
However, if Fox doesn't get gimped and edgeguarded to death, he kills her a lot faster than she kills him, especially since low-floats line her up for his best kill move. His combos are fast and can get inside her range with her slow fair really fast, so the Peach will have to play very predictively and defensively to stop his approaches.
Fox can punish dairs on shield with his usmash, so Peach has to be cautious there as well.
Counterpicks are interesting. The CP's that stick out to me the most are Japes and Greens. Japes annuls both character's upsmashes, but Fox's usmash is decidedly more dangerous as it can be landed consistently. Fox seems like he'd have a hard time falling out of the water? Can he recover if the water sweeps him off the left side and he jumps out way out there? Unless he can recover there better than I imagine, that'd be the best CP. Green Greens also stands out because his side-B recovery would take him into the bomb blocks, so you can focus on preventing him from reaching the ledge and not worry about him recovering high as much. But usmash becomes dangerous there.
Fox, meanwhile, should probably pick Corneria or any stage with a short ceiling.
I say probably even, or very slight advantage (55-45) to Peach.
From a theoretical perspective, though, I'd put this matchup at 50-50 or 55-45 Peach's favor. I've since played a few Foxes online and learned a bit about the matchup. Peach's CG is fairly effective- while she can only CG to 25%, she can end it with an ftilt to take Fox to 40% after the last Dthrow passes 25%, and if the Fox DI's wrong or fails to DI she can land a second ftilt or a utilt afterwards.
Peach can get grabs easier than most as she can autocancel fair into a grab or a jab > grab, and can glide toss to grabs. However, the CG is a nice extra- it hardly makes the matchup. The CG is just a nice extra if the Fox gets sloppy.
Fox is very vulnerable to Dair combos because of his fast falling nature- Peach can cause a lot of damage, landing 40-50% off of a dair if she DI-chases properly. However, the biggest risk to Peach is that usmash, which will knock her right out of float- Peach should stop floating when she gets to around 70% for fear of this and play really defensively.
Peach can also gimp him offstage very, very easily. Nair comes out in two frames and will knock him right out of his side-B and send him back offstage. Bair also stops his side-B, and so do turnips. If the Peach predicts his recovery and upsmashes, his side-B carries him right into the sweetspot resulting in death at ~80% (yes, Peach's sweetspotted upsmash is similar in power to Fox's...but it's hard to sweetspot).
Peach also edgehogs his up-B easily- she can float against the ledge and release to instantly grab it with invulnerability frames. I do this to Falco's- and it's even less risky with Fox since I don't have to worry about getting side-B spiked if I mistime.
Generally, a Peach should throw a turnip and jump off stage. If Fox tries to recover with his side-B, she can nair him OR he'll hit the turnip. The turnip should be spaced to prevent him from reaching the ledge, so you can be ready with the nair. If he up-B's instead, he can be edgehogged.
So, Peach combos Fox well and gimps him well. That's her advantagse.
However, if Fox doesn't get gimped and edgeguarded to death, he kills her a lot faster than she kills him, especially since low-floats line her up for his best kill move. His combos are fast and can get inside her range with her slow fair really fast, so the Peach will have to play very predictively and defensively to stop his approaches.
Fox can punish dairs on shield with his usmash, so Peach has to be cautious there as well.
Counterpicks are interesting. The CP's that stick out to me the most are Japes and Greens. Japes annuls both character's upsmashes, but Fox's usmash is decidedly more dangerous as it can be landed consistently. Fox seems like he'd have a hard time falling out of the water? Can he recover if the water sweeps him off the left side and he jumps out way out there? Unless he can recover there better than I imagine, that'd be the best CP. Green Greens also stands out because his side-B recovery would take him into the bomb blocks, so you can focus on preventing him from reaching the ledge and not worry about him recovering high as much. But usmash becomes dangerous there.
Fox, meanwhile, should probably pick Corneria or any stage with a short ceiling.
I say probably even, or very slight advantage (55-45) to Peach.
40% actually.
The CG can be done by simply turning around and grabbing, or dash grabbing. Dash grabbing looks cooler, but the practical purpose is that you can alternate to place Fox in any part of the stage you want. Want to get Fox on the left side of the stage? Dash grab left, turn around and grab right, dash grab left, etc till you get to 25% or reach the edge.
Here's a demonstration of the CG using DASH GRABS. You can also do it in place with no movement on Peach's part by buffering turning around grabs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVwWRhfjNq0
As long as the Peach ftilts after the Dthrow that passes 25%, Fox should be at 39-40%.
And if Fox DI's wrong Peach can uptilt too, so make sure you DI away.
Rickerdy-doo-da-day
Smash Master
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- RicardoAvocado
I get to fight a guy who is pretty decent with Fox. I personally think the match up is pretty even
The CG Peach has is really the least of your worries. You can DI out of it at around 30%. You want to watch out more for her Dair's which can get an easy 40%+ on characters like Fox
Fox's Dair --> Up Tilt can be stopped by Peach's F Tilt/ Up Tilt if you're above her. Don't predictably fall into that trap. If you do get a Dair in, be aware that Peach can Nair out of constant Up Tilts
Watch your Up Smash use. Peach will be very aware of this horrid move and if you run straight at her with it, she can very easily Toad you out of it
There isn't really a right lot to say that hasn't been said...Watch out for her Dair/Fair, her Turnips, Toad and her good edgeguarding abilites
Sorry my view sucks I know :/
The CG Peach has is really the least of your worries. You can DI out of it at around 30%. You want to watch out more for her Dair's which can get an easy 40%+ on characters like Fox
Fox's Dair --> Up Tilt can be stopped by Peach's F Tilt/ Up Tilt if you're above her. Don't predictably fall into that trap. If you do get a Dair in, be aware that Peach can Nair out of constant Up Tilts
Watch your Up Smash use. Peach will be very aware of this horrid move and if you run straight at her with it, she can very easily Toad you out of it
There isn't really a right lot to say that hasn't been said...Watch out for her Dair/Fair, her Turnips, Toad and her good edgeguarding abilites
Sorry my view sucks I know :/
Gea
Smash Master
Lylat is better than GG against Fox. Fox can use lasers to detonate bombs and kill you ALOT lower than you can him. Don't take him to GG. Japes isn't bad either... but Lylat has the platforms to help you and an edge that makes most spacies nervous and they will recover "safely" meaning you have a better chance of predicting them.
Only things I gotta say really for Fox players is don't try to jump out of shield when she's above you. Don't underestimate the dair, its a ****ed good move. That said, nearly any part of your usmash can kill us at relatively decent %s, and if you are careful with using it, a good solid bair can kill us too. Your fair goes through some of our stuff... but your uair is more worthless, as is your tilt spam. And if you mistime any of your dair stuff you get punished hard. REALLY quick jabs and the ability to float...
That said, take Peach to Yoshi's. Platform can help you recover, she has harder times killing there... Also if you feel comfortable with the stage, Frigate. If she has to up + B on the side with no edge it means a free usmash. Just be sure you're COMFORTABLE with these stages.
Its probably 55 in Peach's favor. She has options and outdoes nearly everything you can do except kill, which if you can be patient and bait her into laggy moves that you can usmash, you can definitely win this.
I'd also like to congratulate the Fox boards on being very realistic and humble with their matchup discussion, instead of being like some character boards and thinking you always have neutral/advantage.
Bravo.
Only things I gotta say really for Fox players is don't try to jump out of shield when she's above you. Don't underestimate the dair, its a ****ed good move. That said, nearly any part of your usmash can kill us at relatively decent %s, and if you are careful with using it, a good solid bair can kill us too. Your fair goes through some of our stuff... but your uair is more worthless, as is your tilt spam. And if you mistime any of your dair stuff you get punished hard. REALLY quick jabs and the ability to float...
That said, take Peach to Yoshi's. Platform can help you recover, she has harder times killing there... Also if you feel comfortable with the stage, Frigate. If she has to up + B on the side with no edge it means a free usmash. Just be sure you're COMFORTABLE with these stages.
Its probably 55 in Peach's favor. She has options and outdoes nearly everything you can do except kill, which if you can be patient and bait her into laggy moves that you can usmash, you can definitely win this.
I'd also like to congratulate the Fox boards on being very realistic and humble with their matchup discussion, instead of being like some character boards and thinking you always have neutral/advantage.
Bravo.
NeverKnowsBest
Monochrome Like A Panda
Bleh the only experiance I have with Peach is fighting Kirbstir's Peach at C3 in the loser's bracket. For some reason I think it is in Fox's favor just because I think if you are able to read the Peach's Insta Float you can land and easy upsmash for the win. That is basically how I beat his Peach. Hopefully I can get some Peach practice at Chu's and report with some knowledge on the Peach/Fox match-up
Conviction
Human Nature
Rickerdy-doo-da-day
Smash Master
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Anyone who thinks they can automatically win the match because 'All Peach does is Float, all you have to do is hit her out of it with an Up move' is very wrong
Sorry that sounded harsh >< my bad
Peach can approach with Float, SH aerials, Turnips (combined with Glide Tossing)...we don't always Float around the place
Sorry that sounded harsh >< my bad
Peach can approach with Float, SH aerials, Turnips (combined with Glide Tossing)...we don't always Float around the place
gantrain05
Smash Master
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