M@v
Subarashii!
you do realize the only reason falco is good there is his CG to meteor?
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Fox Match-Up General Discussion
- Thread starter M@v
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Canvasofgrey
Smash Ace
I don't think the advantage is to peach just because of CG. Heck, I don't ever really use it and I still kick Fox's butt with Dair -> Utilt. Ftilt to punish Fox's aerials. Turnips to limit approaches, Insta-Dsmash to get Rolling-whores out of the way, and Dairs to punish Fox's recovery.
LOL, no, Falco's advantages there are due to his ability to camp with his lasers and his CG to spike. Fox has neither.
Can someone actually explain to me why Falco's CG to spike is good on Japes? I hear this from a lot of people :/ But if you just DI to the side, spikes won't kill you in that water under 40%, not even the Klaptrap...and unless you're a fastfaller or fattie, he can't CG you that far. I've CP'd japes on Falco's and not had huge problems...but Falco can't CG Peach at all, not even two grabs, so I'm probably biased there xD
Peaches tend to get predictable and abuse shorthop instafloat when they don't know a matchup and don't know what to do. I've been guilty of it, including my first time fighting a Fox xD The reason for that is that there's a number of characters in the game that CAN'T punish dairs against shield (Ganondorf, ROB, Olimar, etc) and a lot of others that have a hard time punishing it, so when the Peach doesn't know what to do, they revert to dairs.
Peach's ground game actually should stop all of Fox's approaches. Utilt & ftilt should beat out all of his aerials and fsmash should provide nasty punishment for diagonal approaches. I don't believe he can punished an autocancelled fair on his shield, and her nair keeps Fox from comboing her.
Sounds like Kirbstir got predictable or was unsure of what to do.
gantrain05
Smash Master
praxis pretty much covered it, Ftilt and Utilt are great defensive tools against fox's approach, and Nair will break out of pretty much any combo you can put her in (2 frames of startup and a hitbox all over her body minus her feet) and fox's weight makes him perfect for Dair combos. and its hard for even MK to punish autocancelled Fair's to the shield so i don't see how fox could =/ especially if they are spaced well, and i hate to say it but its just hard for fox if peach really knows the matchup.
Gea
Smash Master
Good peach players aren't going to float that low the majority of the time, lol. What are you going to do when they float above your usmash then come down on you? Her floating strength lies either right above or at head level of most opponents, as well as starting that float when you get close.
Also about Japes... Falco wins there vs Peach because of his lasers. You can't approach at all and he can get away quickly. Seriously. You can't ledgecamp and force him to approach. You HAVE to approach that Falco.
Fox can't camp, nor stop your approach. Fox's usmash is all but gone in low kill effectiveness. Its not like LOL FOX GETS ***** but more like Peach can utilize the stage better, and there are better places for both to go.
Oh, and Turnips are good against Fox. Great, even.
This is one of my easiest personal matchups because it's one of the matchup I know best in this entire game. I feel it is a 60-40 advantage for Peach.
What it breaks down to is that both characters will get each other to very high percents to get a kill. Fox's upsmash will be VERY hard to land on Peach because she will dair if you approach her float. Like Gea said you can float out of it's range but if he tries it and misses down air has enough range to get him for it. Also, Peach's back our outprioritizes any of Fox's aerials, at the very least trading hits with it if Fox spaces right and Peach spaces wrong. What Fox can do in this matchup is play really defensively with lasers and run away and play defensive, and throw hits in when she's showing openings because of these lasers. This makes the matchup closer and attainable for Fox, but if he plays aggressive he's going to get crushed by Peach's priority. I like to just shield to neutral air the drill - you have enough time before he can follow up, even if he mixes it up and tries a grab after the drill (what a smart fox may try if you keep shielding drill to up tilt). Fox can have a chance with Peach in the air but he must space those back airs realllly well in the air. Fox can land many grabs on Peach due to his speed so that helps him for damage, but he won't get any follow up attacks (besides more damage with lasers) out of it.
Peach has a very strong Gimp on fox. Down air. If you down air fox during his up b but do not execute the final hit of down air, he will just fall down wards. You simply need to do this once or twice to get him under the stage enough for an edgehog. It's a really, really effective tactic forcing Fox to always side B. Which forward smash outprioritzes (and if you space yourself right, just shield it and upsmash out of shield, it's a way for Peach to get a good early kill in ) I know the matchup insanely well as I have played and defeated Champ, Uchiha and Gamble . Peach definitely has some solid advantage.
Falco cannot grab to spike peach. You can escape with proper DI.
What it breaks down to is that both characters will get each other to very high percents to get a kill. Fox's upsmash will be VERY hard to land on Peach because she will dair if you approach her float. Like Gea said you can float out of it's range but if he tries it and misses down air has enough range to get him for it. Also, Peach's back our outprioritizes any of Fox's aerials, at the very least trading hits with it if Fox spaces right and Peach spaces wrong. What Fox can do in this matchup is play really defensively with lasers and run away and play defensive, and throw hits in when she's showing openings because of these lasers. This makes the matchup closer and attainable for Fox, but if he plays aggressive he's going to get crushed by Peach's priority. I like to just shield to neutral air the drill - you have enough time before he can follow up, even if he mixes it up and tries a grab after the drill (what a smart fox may try if you keep shielding drill to up tilt). Fox can have a chance with Peach in the air but he must space those back airs realllly well in the air. Fox can land many grabs on Peach due to his speed so that helps him for damage, but he won't get any follow up attacks (besides more damage with lasers) out of it.
Peach has a very strong Gimp on fox. Down air. If you down air fox during his up b but do not execute the final hit of down air, he will just fall down wards. You simply need to do this once or twice to get him under the stage enough for an edgehog. It's a really, really effective tactic forcing Fox to always side B. Which forward smash outprioritzes (and if you space yourself right, just shield it and upsmash out of shield, it's a way for Peach to get a good early kill in ) I know the matchup insanely well as I have played and defeated Champ, Uchiha and Gamble . Peach definitely has some solid advantage.
Falco cannot grab to spike peach. You can escape with proper DI.
Conviction
Human Nature
Ok one thing though what happens when the Fox approaches the Floating with Running Shield Grab? even if Peach DIs Back the Speed slides him after her for free grab or if the Fox is smart Usmash out of Shield. Am I right? Shine Stalling can throw off your gimping timing and plus a good Fox will Cancel his Side B to get the ledge instead of soaring over the peach's hoping that the peach will mess up
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
amazingly no luigis show up to talk about their matchup but alot of Peachs do lol. but my text wall was in first. 
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
thats happend to me sometimes. the few times it did, i didn't space back fast enough.
yes double post. lol
Conviction
Human Nature
I have question another question Does most peach's Airs attack outprioritize Snake's? I not sure so dont flame if I'm wrong Snake or Peach boards, but doesnt Fox's Uair beat all Snake Airs
Conviction
Human Nature
So I am right on that one?
Darn I was so close.
Curse you. >.>
What?
If she's floating, she'll be too high for you to grab her.
Plus, she can fair your shield and autocancel to jab faster than you can grab her or retaliate in any way.
Conviction
Human Nature
Then Usmash hits... and I was talking about when she floats really close the grounds Insta-float right?
Conviction
Human Nature
Does Peach vertical recovery isnt that good + being light would make shine spike a nightmare for her.
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
i've been hit by running Usmash, but only by grab once cause i was landing. and if for some reason peach is that low recovering, yes you can try to shine spike. but if i predict that im toading you. you have to hold shine then.
Conviction
Human Nature
Ok but it would make it worst because whatever toad shoots out get reflected and make farther away from the edge.
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
not if toad blows me up then i can just parisol to safety again lol.
Conviction
Human Nature
After that... DJ to Nair in face? and how often does toad blow you up?
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
last few times a Fox went to shinespike me he got toaded cause he didn't know lol. so idk really.
Lightning93
Smash Champion
I'm glad some Peach players came down, I don't have much experience on this matchup either.
Also, thanks for acknowledging our honesty. We would never deny the horrors of Pikachu...
Also, thanks for acknowledging our honesty. We would never deny the horrors of Pikachu...
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
so many peachs lol.
and whoever is denying pika needs their furry card taken away.
Conviction
Human Nature
XD if they Pika is easy they must Fox God
Lightning93
Smash Champion
Lol, remember people taking the extra amount of seconds to make sure your sentence is grammatically comprehendible without re-reading, saves everyone else time and conveys what you actually meant. Sorry, just throwing that out there seeing as I have not much else to say. ;P
I would imagine drill shine-ing being better than just plain old shine spike-ing? How difficult would it be for a Fox pull one of those off?
(Don't worry I got what you said.)
I would imagine drill shine-ing being better than just plain old shine spike-ing? How difficult would it be for a Fox pull one of those off?
(Don't worry I got what you said.)
Conviction
Human Nature
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
drill shine could be a better option as long as she isn't upBing already, and if you go on her head directly i can see a toadbypass.
Conviction
Human Nature
So we that being established wouldn't put match at 50:50 since both have gimping power?
I'm trying to pull match to Fox advantage :D.
Ok so
Peach
Floaty
Hard to combo
Good Usmash (Early kill)
High priority
Good approach
Can gimp
Fox
Can approach with being punished if being smart
(Early Kill) Usmash
Can Gimp
Can mimic Peach's Float for perfect counter* (I'll explain that if you want)
Faster
Heavier
Sex kick
SO.... Peach: 6/ Fox: 6
I think there are some more ground to cover.
But it seems this match is decided on the smart player.
I'm trying to pull match to Fox advantage :D.
Ok so
Peach
Floaty
Hard to combo
Good Usmash (Early kill)
High priority
Good approach
Can gimp
Fox
Can approach with being punished if being smart
(Early Kill) Usmash
Can Gimp
Can mimic Peach's Float for perfect counter* (I'll explain that if you want)
Faster
Heavier
Sex kick
SO.... Peach: 6/ Fox: 6
I think there are some more ground to cover.
But it seems this match is decided on the smart player.
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
its just a situation peach can endup in, but considering other than Dsmash Fox doesn't have alot of move than send peach low and off stage. while her vertical recovery isn't too great, its still very good and her horizontal recovery is amazing still. Peach still has the much easier time gimping though, i mean Dair and Nair from peach can beat all of Foxs recoveries not to mention turnip gimps. then shes not easy to combo cause she breaks out like luigi. then the other things said earlier, minus the CG, mostly go in peachs favor more.
i still feel its relatively 50:50 anyway, peach just has an easier time in many things which could swing it in her favor of 55:45. edress is the only one who said 60:40 Peach, but i don't see Fox disadvantaged that much.
i still feel its relatively 50:50 anyway, peach just has an easier time in many things which could swing it in her favor of 55:45. edress is the only one who said 60:40 Peach, but i don't see Fox disadvantaged that much.
Conviction
Human Nature
Since no one answer my Snake/Peach air priority thing. I think Fox can beat Peach's Airs because Fox's Uair if spaced decently can beat all of Snake's Airs.
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
peach should be at great gimp, and by mimic float do you mean the hovering Fair? some peachs have had trouble with Fox others don't thats why i still consider it 50:50
Edress did mention spacing Bair and i know Fair has caught me a few times. i believe with spacing you can just outreach her, since peach isn't and invisible hitbox feined. as for snake idk really most snakes i've fought hug the ground and their tilts usually.
Conviction
Human Nature
Ok 50:50 it is Mav we should move on to some one else Donkey Kong or Lucas
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
i say Lucairo or Mario first.
Lightning93
Smash Champion
That was like, maybe a day, slow down people and wait for everyone else, or else we won't have reason to come back here anymore.
Hmm... 50:50 you sure? That gimping game can come in handy for a Peach if they dash CG you off the stage and follow it up. Fox here isn't too disadvantaged, but he has to make more of an effort to defend than Peach has to simply pressure the guy. But Peach isn't necessarily hard to kill if you get your smashes in, although gimping can be a problem. I would have to say 55:45, because although Peach has small advantages (or so everyone says) when they add up it can be frustrating. I've been d-air chained before and it just tears your Fox sexiness to shreds.
Hmm... 50:50 you sure? That gimping game can come in handy for a Peach if they dash CG you off the stage and follow it up. Fox here isn't too disadvantaged, but he has to make more of an effort to defend than Peach has to simply pressure the guy. But Peach isn't necessarily hard to kill if you get your smashes in, although gimping can be a problem. I would have to say 55:45, because although Peach has small advantages (or so everyone says) when they add up it can be frustrating. I've been d-air chained before and it just tears your Fox sexiness to shreds.
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
yeah it can. knowledge of peach is really helpful here, thats why i consider it 50:50. and being gimped is a ***** cause she can float out and kill you.
Acex27
Smash Apprentice
Dair is definitely a problem at low percentages, since it chains into itself on fox.
Another thing for me through personal experience is that peach can put a lot of pressure on fox because of her turnips and glide tossing. I have played Dark Pch. before at a tourney in a few friendlies, and he really knew how to make a wall with high and low turnips coupled with autocancelled fairs. If the player is good enough, Peach could be close to diddy in terms of using her projectiles offesively, which could make the fight that much harder (although i still think its a really fun match).
IMO i think this match would be a 45:55 Peach advantage.
Oh and I vote we go for Donkey Kong next.
One of my rivals (also a friend) plays donkey and hes pretty challenging.
Another thing for me through personal experience is that peach can put a lot of pressure on fox because of her turnips and glide tossing. I have played Dark Pch. before at a tourney in a few friendlies, and he really knew how to make a wall with high and low turnips coupled with autocancelled fairs. If the player is good enough, Peach could be close to diddy in terms of using her projectiles offesively, which could make the fight that much harder (although i still think its a really fun match).
IMO i think this match would be a 45:55 Peach advantage.
Oh and I vote we go for Donkey Kong next.
One of my rivals (also a friend) plays donkey and hes pretty challenging.
Lightning93
Smash Champion
Oh yes! I forgot we are speaking generally here, and I'm really thinking about great Peach players.
If both players are decent then 50:50.
However if both are really good, the scale tilts a little bit 45:55 Peach.
Understandable?
Alright so I've been hearing, Mario, Donkey Kong, and Lucario. Where's M@V though he hasn't even put up the picture of Peach, do you maybe someone else could start doing that?
If both players are decent then 50:50.
However if both are really good, the scale tilts a little bit 45:55 Peach.
Understandable?
Alright so I've been hearing, Mario, Donkey Kong, and Lucario. Where's M@V though he hasn't even put up the picture of Peach, do you maybe someone else could start doing that?
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
i've seen 2 DK votes so far. so we can move onto him. and M@v is like busy alot lol. its nice that the peach discussion went though relatively quickly and effectively. i finally got to post alot for once too
Lightning93
Smash Champion
That's always nice, and I understand he is always so busy, I'm on Thanksgiving break currently so I finally have free time. I just don't like that we're breaking through tradtional Fox matchup discussion.
KheldarVII
Smash Ace
I'd probably call Peach even. I'm all for doing DK or Lucario next.
gantrain05
Smash Master
fox will almost never be in the position to Uair peach, to whoever was questioning his Uair priority, and as for the shine spike, its kinda not as simple as just jumping out and shine spiking peach pretty much every character has trouble edgegaurding peach, MK included, if peach is recovering she most likely has plenty of float time left, where she can juke back and forth and wait for a fox reaction, and if he doesn't react he doesn't have anything that is going to beat the parasol, its just unrealistic really to try and gimp peach's recovery, sure it can happen but don't count on it as an advantage because more often than not peach will be gimping fox instead. i have to say again i believe this matchup is a 60-40 peach, i believe edrees also stated reasons why as well.
Yanoss1313
Smash Journeyman
yea, i reckon DK should be up next.
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