Lightning93
Smash Champion
I guess we can do Peach next, it seems Wario was kind of rushed through though.
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Fox Match-Up General Discussion
- Thread starter M@v
- Start date
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SCOTU
Smash Hero
iirc, wArio can't force a ground break, meaning you can do stupid stuff to him w/ a grab, is this correct?
Fenrir VII
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2005
- Messages
- 3,506
No. completely false... there was a rumored Fox infinite on him, but it's simply not true. Wario can't force a ground break against characters tall enough... Zelda, DDD, and a few others can destroy him from a grab...
Fox, however, is not one of those characters....as long as they don't mindlessly rattle the joystick or hit the jump buttons, they can ground break, leading to no followup for Fox.
SmashBrother2008
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2008
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- 1,227
I think that the matchup does do Fox one better... Fox=Projectile, Wario=No projectile. I wouldn't base a whole matchup off of that but doesn't 6-4 seem a little much? Maybe 45:55?
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
because Fox blaster isn't the best of a camping tool i'd disreguard it as anything more than a way to make wario move towards you faster. oh and we don't have to rush to peach lol
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
im sure after were done with Wario somone will waltz in and say something about the Wario matchup. this seems to be happening with alot of the matchups
KheldarVII
Smash Ace
Wario's Bike > Fox's Lasers.
M@v
Subarashii!
You know how to jump right?
NeverKnowsBest
Monochrome Like A Panda
Fox's Upsmash > Wario's Bike.
FIYAHHHHHH!!!
FIYAHHHHHH!!!
Lightning93
Smash Champion
Lol drill beats a Wario's bike if you time it right. And unfortunately lasers won't do much good because you'll get maybe two shots on him before he comes over to do bad things to you lol. Most people I play disregard my lasers, heck I could be spamming it without the SHDL and they wouldn't care. It really doesn't accumulate too much damage especially if your opponent approaches from the air or on a bike.
Also, Wario's DO have thrown items. My friend has a deadly bike-throw to boost smash combo that can trap any character up and down between the two for 70%. Just watch out for that if they know it. Also, please be careful when lingering around the edge if Wario has a bike, because he will most likely bike spike you.
How it works: you firefox, the bike comes down on you and bounces back up, you firefox, the bike repeats the action, one more cycle, then you firefox and Wario steals the edge from you.
Also, Wario's DO have thrown items. My friend has a deadly bike-throw to boost smash combo that can trap any character up and down between the two for 70%. Just watch out for that if they know it. Also, please be careful when lingering around the edge if Wario has a bike, because he will most likely bike spike you.
How it works: you firefox, the bike comes down on you and bounces back up, you firefox, the bike repeats the action, one more cycle, then you firefox and Wario steals the edge from you.
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
hmmm sounds like Pika. also can Fair defeat the bike too?
i didn't know about those things.
Lightning93
Smash Champion
I'm sure if you time it right you may hit him with your second or third kick, remembering you are aiming for Wario not the bike itself, in case there was any confusion.
I don't think many people do, because not even PAXZ seem to do any of those things. But I have another personal friend who mains Wario, and he usually sets up the bike spike by running off the edge immediately side-b-ing back to the stage. This cause Wario to immediately fall off his bike right by the edge which is a perfect setup to toss it. In fact, Wario can bike trap you many other ways if you're not careful. He can throw the bike up in the air, u-throw you, then follow up with a trapped up-smash. He can also throw the bike at you and hold you in position with a grab while the bike bashes you over and over again on the head. These techs work with his wheels too, but not as effective.
Overall. Thats alot of things that wario can do to Fox. most of the time when i face wario players they usually spam the crap of the dair/bike/uair. but one thing dont break warios bike because thats his recovery pretty much just leave on the stage.
Lightning93
Smash Champion
Good question. It's not so much situational, but I guess it can be. It really depends on the skill of the Wario and yourself. Most Warios should have relatively little problem setting these traps up (especially the bike spike), but if they don't know about it then they obviously can't do it. On your part if you're not careful you can easily be trapped by Wario in various ways be either being grabbed and then have the bike come down on you, or have the bike come down on you and then grabbed. These are not the only two options btw.
Referring to the generalness of this matchup, I'd say there is a high chance between two decent players, of one trapping the other at least once. The devastation varies however, for the bike traps can either be used to spike or to accumulate damage, however big or small.
The bike traps are merely an AT for Wario's and I am just throwing it out there for people to look out for, but I think it still supports the fact that this matchup is 60:40, given how easily Fox can be gimped by bike spiking. I actually have not seen this in any Wario videos or threads, but I'm sure people have discovered this already. Worst case scenario I just gave away one of my friend's custom AT's away in a FOX thread lol. Oops... (but I doubt it).
Lightning93
Smash Champion
Oh yes lol. If you feel confident in your ability to push Wario off the stage and gimp, then for all reason let the bike remain unharmed on the stage. Just don't allow any bike traps or gimps okay? ;P
i see. thanks for the heads up so if i face a wario player(or your friend lol) i will be prepared
Lightning93
Smash Champion
That's what I'm here for xP. Anyone else still have any confusion about what I have mentioned?
Nope you wrap things up regarding this subject.
gantrain05
Smash Master
yeah, i just don't seem to have trouble with the warios like alot of you guys do =/ i just use fox's great agility to mindgame them into making mistakes and then capitalizing on them, but yes, i agree mario next, he can be so annoying, especially one who is really good with that god ****ed cape glide and fludd combo, it ***** fox's recovery so bad, it almost forces you to recover low.
M@v
Subarashii!
Also, you can grab him off of the bike. Ive done it when I came back with invulnerability frames. I dont see why you couldnt do it with a shieldgrab if you time it right.
Lightning93
Smash Champion
You can. But most Wario's can just power through your combos and mindgames.
Yanoss1313
Smash Journeyman
lol, i doupt this happens all too often, but one thing that makes for a crate full of laughing, is bike spiking the Wario with his own gear, hehe... although, you'd never see a Wario silly enough to leave his bike on an edge like that, but still, it's a laugh and a half.
Lightning93
Smash Champion
Actually it is! If you are able to pressure Wario before he gets a grab at his bike, you can use it against him as well! If the Wario is too late at his setup, you can attack from hanging off the edge, follow it up with a grab that will throw him back off the edge, and bike spike him! Irony is Wario is much easier to bike spike than Fox!
SmashBrother2008
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,227
So what your saying is we need to hope we're fighting a careless Wario? btw I'm sure you will eventually come across a situation like the bike spike. Well, any advantage is a good advantage...
Lightning93
Smash Champion
Not necessarily, if you're fast you can stop a Wario before he gets a grab at his bike.
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
what do you mean if? this is Fox not Ike lol. but yeah.
Lightning93
Smash Champion
I mean, quick in your reactions and good in your pressure. You can't just expect Fox's speed to do all the work for you ;P.
SmashBrother2008
Smash Lord
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- Mar 14, 2008
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But it will surely aid you. I agree, this makes Wario's bike easier to deal with.
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
sarcasm ftw lol
Lightning93
Smash Champion
... Lol, in my defense it's not exactly easy to understand sarcasm within written text...
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
poor light lol. i've been putting up so much sarcastic post lately though i just realized lol
Lightning93
Smash Champion
Lol I forgive and forget, although I wasn't too offended in the first place at all, just confused.
Anyways, should we move on to Peach or Mario, and does anyone have anything else to say matchup related?
JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
we can move onto whichever. i've got nothing else to say on Wario anyway. now to find M@v so he can move us along
Fenrir VII
Smash Master
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2005
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- 3,506
Things that I have that are bothering me... Are the bike traps and spikes not avoidable / DI-able? I understand that a lot of Warios don't really use them, but I've never had an issue with it.
I agree that Wario-Fox is 6-4 for Wario, though. not a problem with that. I'm just wondering about those...
Also, Peach and Mario? I'd rather do Pit, Lucario, or Luigi...but whatever... I'm not really posting here anymore anyway.
I agree that Wario-Fox is 6-4 for Wario, though. not a problem with that. I'm just wondering about those...
Also, Peach and Mario? I'd rather do Pit, Lucario, or Luigi...but whatever... I'm not really posting here anymore anyway.
Lightning93
Smash Champion
Unfortunately, they are not really DI-able. The bike is so big, that when you try to DI away from another hit it'll most likely hit you again until you've been spiked, but I guess if it only hits you with the very edge of the bike you can escape, although Wario may be able to re-punish you. When dealing with bike traps, if you've been caught you're screwed because you'll be bouncing back between Wario's up-smsash and the bike itself. My best advice is just to not let it happen.
My friend has recently picked up Weegee, so I wouldn't mind doing him next either... but whatever the Fox community wants they should get.
Fenrir VII
Smash Master
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Luigi is probably my least favorite match with Fox... so yeah...
The bike stuff is interesting. I'm not truly convinced of it's true potentail, but that's simply because I don't have experience with it. You do, so you're the expert here. : D
It's a pretty risky idea for Wario, though. If you were able to get him off the ledge without his bike, Fox has NUMEROUS tools for killing him. just something else to watch for, I guess.
Thanks for the info.
The bike stuff is interesting. I'm not truly convinced of it's true potentail, but that's simply because I don't have experience with it. You do, so you're the expert here. : D
It's a pretty risky idea for Wario, though. If you were able to get him off the ledge without his bike, Fox has NUMEROUS tools for killing him. just something else to watch for, I guess.
Thanks for the info.
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