JigglyZelda003
Smash Hero
wheres M@v so we can move on sheesh.
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This is definitely diddy's advantage guys. Only a bad diddy can't play on a stage with platforms lol. Diddy controls the stage, and gives fox one hell of a hard time getting back on as well. Between the popgun, nanners, and his 3 spikes, this is most definitely not an even match up.im here, sheesh >_>. Ive been busy mmk? Well yes, its going as 50:50. Stages dont put THAT much weight in it. And since you guys want to start Wario, get moving on it. Its definitely a harder matchup.
Sorry Switch but moving on...This is definitely diddy's advantage guys. Only a bad diddy can't play on a stage with platforms lol. Diddy controls the stage, and gives fox one hell of a hard time getting back on as well. Between the popgun, nanners, and his 3 spikes, this is most definitely not an even match up.
Can't you smash DI Warios dair as well?Zori used Wario, and he used my color as well? DMG approves :D
Eh, Wario vs Fox, I would say 60 : 40 for Wario. Most noticeably factors for Wario include SDIing Dair to avoid Usmash/Dsmash from Fox, Fsmash and Waft can kill at grotesque %'s, Chomp is annoying for Fox to get around, edgeguarding Fox is problematic for Fox to handle, and that Wario does more damage overall on his attacks excluding if you get hit by 4-5 kicks from Fox's Fair. Wario also has some nice Dair combos at lower %'s that beast Fox for falling fast.
Massive aerial movement should counter that. It might make it harder to correctly follow up though.Can't you smash DI Warios dair as well?
Shielding kills a lot of Dair/Aerial approaches for Fox since Wario is a good shield grabber, and at the very worst I will still SDI Fox's Dair to where you cannot follow up. Full Hop Dairs/Nairs by Fox give Wario too much reaction time if he is on the ground to avoid/counter Fox in the air.well, im gonna have to say its closer to 50-50 if not 60-40 fox advantage, sure wario has his Dair, everyone knows about it, every wario uses it for like 90% of their approaches, i usually just full hop a Dair on top of warios head and start a Dair > Utilt spam > and then i'll wait for warios reaction as soon as Utilt stops working and soon as he's about to hit the ground he gets a running Usmash and then i'll keep him in the air with a Fair, if its airdodged i'll fast fall right on his head with a Dair and Utilt him in the air again. i think most of my kills come from Usmash/Bair/Uair i really don't use Fsmash so much, its too slow and punishable, occasionally i'll get a Dsmash kill, but not often.
Exactly, don't let yourself become open.yeah i saw that alot lol. if an aerial whiffs its better to just walk away and reset if possible.
Think about it though, if I can just DI a move to where you have no guaranteed followups, the best thing to assume is that I can/will do it consistently. Same for you guys DIing Wario's Dair, it may be somewhat hard to do but I didn't forget about it or write it off as in-applicable.Really the whole thing about Foxs' dair being SDI'able is really overrated. No player can always do it and even if you do it's not like we're being punished bad. Show me a vid of a player consistently using SDI to escape dair.....until you do stop bringing it up into matchup discussions. I get this same crap with Zelda opponents where supposedly her usmash and fsmash can be SDI'ed so they don't matter as much.
Fair enough, i'm just tired of people writing off his dair because of SDI. I understand what you're saying though.Think about it though, if I can just DI a move to where you have no guaranteed followups, the best thing to assume is that I can/will do it consistently. Same for you guys DIing Wario's Dair, it may be somewhat hard to do but I didn't forget about it or write it off as in-applicable.
It's also not too hard to DI it if you are in the air, you can watch Paxz vs Light and see some times where he gets hit by it in the air and is able to dodge something bad lol.
Fair enough, i'm just tired of people writing off his dair because of SDI. I understand what you're saying though.
Yes we have already went over this, but in comparison to other characters Fox has a bit more chance of defending against a Diddy then other characters.Sorry that I'm late to the party, but I completely disagree with your assessment versus Diddy, especially when it comes to banana control and edgeguarding.
While it may be easy to overwhelm a Diddy randomly glide tossing two bananas full throttle with your reflector, the fact of the matter is that most Diddys will either bait the reflector or just use one banana at a time. If you try to play aggressively picking up the bananas with your fast dash attack, Diddy's clear experience with handling the bananas will not play to your favor. Most Diddy's play this matchup with more dash attacks and glide tossing up or down baiting the reflector and/or using the Fatalities Fake. Banana grouping, the popgun/ popgun midair cancel, and aerial priority (except for dair), and KO power don't play to your favor either..
unusual move lags? what are you talking about?^^^ Wario: I find it most useful to keep a Wario at about mid-range away from me. Once I close in he has too many near-range options and if I sit back and blaster (or wait to punish) he can just plow through with the Wariocycle or approach with arials. Dair makes me cringe. However, he is pretty shield-grabable becuase of his unusual move lags.
So I'm not sure were to place the matchup. 40:60 Wario?
^ I can dig it.(Lol I am coming up with the three P's in brawl, patience, pressure, and persistence. Not a bad way of fighting eh?)
Well most of his strengths honestly are hard to counter (Being heavy, killing well, having insane aerial control, recovery, etc.) There's not a general strategy put there for battling Wario except to try and space well and maybe camp occasionally. Other than that, you just got to play the player himself and try to counter what he does specifically compared to Wario overall.For some reason I don't seem to have a difficulty against Wario. I believe if you play a proper spacing game and camp him things are smooth sailing.
I just think Fox's grab game hurts Wario. Like I can gimp Warios with a nicely timed grab release to gimp of the edge.
Dr. Mario Guy. I know you are very knowledgeable on Wario, can you please point out his biggest strengths =D So I can see how Fox can counter.
Appreciated in advance!
For these reasons I agree 60:40 Wario's advantage, what I am hoping for now are some ways to help improve these numbers by a even the tiniest bit .In short:
Wario has better damage output, more aerial options, and a relatively easy way of putting Fox in bad positions. Nothing that's HUGELY better against Fox, but significant nonetheless. The mechanics are still in debate, etc. Continue.
Yes, wario is a tricky one..For these reasons I agree 60:40 Wario's advantage, what I am hoping for now are some ways to help improve these numbers by a even the tiniest bit .
Nah...unfortunately. A mediocre Wario will try to mash out of grabs and do the jump release accientally, but Wario can ground release for you to have no followups.Do we have grab release to running usmash on him?
yeah thats true, in that one match i never seen Warios Dair do that to a shield lol, but at least if Fox is torn down at low percents its not so bad, but JP..............Don't let your shield be torn to shreds, because that's the last thing you want in this match-up.
lol that was surprising.Also, be wary of the dreaded fart-spike of the stage, it's not fun... you can look at my first video for an example...
im guessing this is why were calling it 50:50 cause stages can sway it in eithers favor? also why does it seem that people want to drop in and say something about the diddy match when its already over? im just waiting for Peach cause i can really talk about her.Fox vs Diddy could be anywhere from 4-6 to 6-4... it's a very good match....