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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-
- Thread starter Silent Wolf
- Start date
Bones0
Smash Legend
Before (hence you can combo Jiggs at 0%).
Bones0
Smash Legend
Before (hence you can combo Jiggs at 0%).
Sinji
Smash Master
I notice that fox players roll constantly at the edge while they're edge guarding Marth. Why do they do this? Any advice?
X- Sylar -X
Smash Journeyman
maybe setting up the shield hog cuz after roll you can buffer it... other than that I have no clue that would seem pretty bad.
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
What do you propose they do instead? And I'll tell you because it's easy/safe (you're always afraid of that stage spike) and it still works a decent amount of time.
Normal get up is pro and properly managing your invincibility is super pro but sometimes you just don't feel comfortable in that situation, sometimes you do.
I do think Fox players (and falco) should edgeguard Marth better. I've seen some very hard punishes like CC/normal get up smash and normal get up shine that ruin Marth at any percent but I don't think they are utilized as often as they should be. That and we could stand to talk about how/when you refresh your invincibility when Marth is doing A-B-C
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L__
Smash Master
It's because the majority of people suck at edgeguarding Marth lmao
20xxFox
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2013
- Messages
- 64
Quick question. How do you guys do a dashing shine with Fox? What I mean by that is dashing/foxtrot and then (somehow) cancelling your dash into a shine. See, what I've been doing is holding down the control stick for a bit, keep holding it, press B and then wavedash out of shine. BUT I've realized that it doesn't work with a foxtrot, it only works when you are actually IN the dash animation, not the initial one, which is what a foxtrot is. It takes a while to cancel your initial dash by crouching and then shining. I've seen players shine out of a foxtrot and it seems impossible for me. So I guess what I'm asking is, again, how do you guys dash shine (if that's the correct term, excuse me if it isn't.) Does anyone get what I'm talking about or am I not making any sense?
All4G0dsGl0ry
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2013
- Messages
- 46
Jump cancel it by pushing y or x before shining
20xxFox
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2013
- Messages
- 64
Ahh, I see. Makes sense. It's kind of like a sliding motion from y to B, right? Because it'd be hard to do it by press Y, letting go and then pressing b
All4G0dsGl0ry
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2013
- Messages
- 46
Yeah. Same idea as short hop double laser
20xxFox
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2013
- Messages
- 64
Gotcha. Thanks.
Bones0
Smash Legend
The beginning/fox trot animation is called "dash". Anything after that is considered the "run" animation.
You can jump to shine out of dash, but if you want to stay grounded you have to shine on the first airborne frame (frame 4 after 3 frames of jumpsquat). It's the same thing as a multishine, but jumping out of a dash instead of jumpcancelling a shine.
20xxFox
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2013
- Messages
- 64
I see, thanks for correcting me, and also thanks for the help
AlphaQHard
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- May 23, 2012
- Messages
- 81
why does the legde sometime change the direction im facing after my firefox? annoying
Bones0
Smash Legend
If you touch a wall going straight up, you turn around. You can usually FF to the ledge and stiil grab it facing backwards though.
AlphaQHard
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- May 23, 2012
- Messages
- 81
thanks i'll play around with it. most of the time that happens to me i just land on the stage instead
Sinji
Smash Master
I have a couple questions.
Watching over leffen vs mango and in particular game 5. Mango conditioning himself at the middle gave him to advantage in that match. But in general, is FOD in falco's favor or foxes favor? If in foxes favor, what should fox do mainly against falco on that stage?
Watching over leffen vs mango and in particular game 5. Mango conditioning himself at the middle gave him to advantage in that match. But in general, is FOD in falco's favor or foxes favor? If in foxes favor, what should fox do mainly against falco on that stage?
Don't be afraid of people not understanding you. We have discussed pretty much everything fox can ever do in the game thousands of times by now. I bet that any question ever regarding fox could easily be answered in here!I see, thanks for correcting me, and also thanks for the help
XTrEMeSteel14
Smash Rookie
I'm having trouble wavedashing with fox.Any tips
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
I think fox probably does better than falco on FoD, not necessarily specifically in the matchup, but just as characters.
When the platforms are at certain heights falco just isn't allowed to laser for entire portions of the stage, which is a pretty big deal for ANY falco matchup. FoD doesn't really affect anything fox wants to do, inherently.
When the platforms are at certain heights falco just isn't allowed to laser for entire portions of the stage, which is a pretty big deal for ANY falco matchup. FoD doesn't really affect anything fox wants to do, inherently.
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
What do you mean mango conditioning himself? I think he just SD'd and made a few bad decisions and leffen is plenty good enough to beat you when you do that.
But anyways most Falco's prefer FD. There are no platforms so you kind of control the entire horizontal plane. I like to cite watching Mango's Fox vs M2k on FD then watch Dr. PP vs M2k on FD (I think Falco handles that situation way better than Fox). But anyways I think definite advantage Falco unless you chain grab as Fox (which I'm all for). I'm pretty sure you can CG Falco to 75% and that combos into usmash, bair or utilt so a free 90% combo is pretty nice for Fox. If you are a strong chain grabber then I'd have no issues with playing Falco there, if you are not I don't know why you would want to go to FD vs Falco.
Bones0
Smash Legend
If you aren't a strong chain grabber vs. Falco, I don't know why you're playing this game.
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
You don't think it's fair to think about how hardly anyone actually carries out the full chain grab? It's not hard but people drop it a bit and you don't see it that often
l will find peace
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2013
- Messages
- 52
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
People definitely drop it, and they definitely shouldn't LOL
l will find peace
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2013
- Messages
- 52
i mean, you can definitely get away with not doing it
as exemplified by every single top fox player today
as exemplified by every single top fox player today
Bones0
Smash Legend
This is why we need Leffen on the forums. He wasn't afraid to call players out as scrubs for not using optimal strategies just because they are lazy.
l will find peace
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2013
- Messages
- 52
youre confusing suboptimal with bad
there are plenty of people who know what optimal play is but dont say dumb things about people who dont do it consistently
and i dont think leffen would want to be your bannerman
there are plenty of people who know what optimal play is but dont say dumb things about people who dont do it consistently
and i dont think leffen would want to be your bannerman
Bones0
Smash Legend
I don't even know what you're talking about.
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
Leffen could be my bannerman every day of the year.
Engo
Smash Ace
I think Leffen could have beaten M2K in winners if he played vs his other characters. In my opinion he's way better at the sheik/marth matchups than vs spacies.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
99.8% of people suck at throw combos what else is new.
In the nuteral game (more specifically in the Fox ditto), if both players are dash dancing, what would be the go-to option to bait the opponent to do something? Shoot lasers, or dash dance closer to them to increase pressure?
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
Think about it in terms of forcing them to react to something. One good example is running up to them and WDing in place right outside of their range. It sort of depends on how "convincing" you are, but ideally the idea should be "Well I could have ran in and grabbed/shined/upsmashed/naired, and you have to respond to me running at you somehow." If they're not reacting to you doing things like that, it generally means you could just run up and hit them.
Another really good one is empty SHing towards them. If they're committing to dash dancing and you're the one trying to be the aggressor, usually that means they're dash dancing from futher away. Landing only has 3 frames of lag, so its not exactly reactable (since you could also be DJing, or wavelanding backwards or something. This mixup game is even further explored with platforms). Because of this, you can SH towards them as a way to close the distance, and then immediately do an action like nair at them, or run up and hit them. Once again, they're forced to react somehow to what you're doing, and if you mix this in well they generally will have difficulty reacting to such an abrupt change in spacing.
edit: I'm a liar its 4 frames
Another really good one is empty SHing towards them. If they're committing to dash dancing and you're the one trying to be the aggressor, usually that means they're dash dancing from futher away. Landing only has 3 frames of lag, so its not exactly reactable (since you could also be DJing, or wavelanding backwards or something. This mixup game is even further explored with platforms). Because of this, you can SH towards them as a way to close the distance, and then immediately do an action like nair at them, or run up and hit them. Once again, they're forced to react somehow to what you're doing, and if you mix this in well they generally will have difficulty reacting to such an abrupt change in spacing.
edit: I'm a liar its 4 frames
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Bones0
Smash Legend
Empty landing lag, autocancels, and float cancels are actually 4 frames, but great explanation otherwise.