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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

oukd

oukd

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
1,464
i dont think regular turnaround is 1 frame, if you just stand in place and turn around a lot its much slower than dashdancing (which takes 2 frames per cycle when done at its fastest, but if you meant dash-turnaround then yeah its 1 frame i guess)
you can do some turnaround actions earlier than the first post-"turned-around" frame though (ie grab, and some other stuff)

ive always heard shine turnaround take 3 frames but ive never seen confirmation on that and would like to know about it too
 
Kadano

Kadano

Magical Express
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
2,160
Location
Vienna, Austria
Druggedfox said:
Regular turn arounds are definitely 1 frame, I never knew that in shine it was more. Where can I find that???
Click to expand...
It’s mentioned in a few very old threads, but they are really hard to find, so I edited the information into ssbwiki: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Fox_(SSBM)/Down_special#Timing
dkuo said:
i dont think regular turnaround is 1 frame, if you just stand in place and turn around a lot its much slower than dashdancing
Click to expand...
I added information about the Turn animation on ssbwiki too: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Turn
 
Stijn

Stijn

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 7, 2012
Messages
61
Location
the Netherlands
Druggedfox said:
More important than if you can, why do you want to? Between grab, uptilt, upsmash, and downsmash as finishers for waveshines, I think you cover the optimal choice in any almost any given situation.
Click to expand...
I know what you mean, but I was thinking to use it considering I'm playing PAL. (Both Usmash and Dsmash are weaker) I was thinking to maybe waveshineFsmash instead of Dsmash
 
L

l will find peace

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 5, 2013
Messages
52
all you do is say something ******** and then type either "lol." or "lol?" at the end of it. if you call that arguing then ok.

even if druggedfox was the biggest noob in the world, he could still know how to correctly or incorrectly play the game. your mental framework of how the game works is pretty ****ty if you actually believe what youre posting.

also id put up $100 that drugged fox could junk you
 
D

Druggedfox

Smash Champion
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
2,665
Location
Atlanta
Silent Wolf, I am not comparing myself to mew2king. I am not claiming to be better than him, nor am I claiming anything about my skill. I am simply analyzing his play based on my best attempt at objectively looking at the decisions he makes in the context of the matchup.

If you think I am elitist for being critical despite not making any claims about my own play or ability, then I have no clue what to say to you.

Sorry that you find me difficult to argue with, but at least I make an attempt at reasonable discussion rather than taking potshots at people's skill levels.

Maybe I need to say it again, because you've apparently had this problem with reading my posts for *years* now: If I make a critical statement about someone, it is not meant as an insult, and I am not claiming anything about my own ability in relation to theirs. Many intelligent people have been able to read and understand my posts; I'm not sure why you can't. In fact, I got into the MBR within a few months solely based on my posting merit.

Also thanks L and kadano for the info!

Edit: @stjin Oh I didn't know you played PAL, I'm not honestly sure. I'd still imagine what I said holds, but maybe not! Imo just check what leffen does =P
 
BeAo

BeAo

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 30, 2013
Messages
7
Location
Washington, US
How should I go about punishing people who roll a ton? Or does it really depend on which character it is? Usually I try to grab but they sometimes roll twice?

Edit: Sorry if this was already asked >_< I couldn't find it anywhere tho
 
dRevan64

dRevan64

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
355
Location
Philly
BeAo said:
How should I go about punishing people who roll a ton? Or does it really depend on which character it is? Usually I try to grab but they sometimes roll twice?

Edit: Sorry if this was already asked >_< I couldn't find it anywhere tho
Click to expand...

Get faster. Roll invuln and punish times are somewhat character dependent (I think most characters have 12 punishable frames, samus/yoshi have more) but given the startup that's more than enough time to punish the roll on reaction and even more so if you now the guy has a habit for it.
 
dRevan64

dRevan64

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
355
Location
Philly
BeAo said:
Sweet, thanks ^^ is grabbing a good idea though? Is there a better alternative?
Click to expand...
Depends on the character, that's just a question of "what punish gets me the most mileage here." If it's peach, you probably just want to waveshine her into an upsmash, if it's a spacie you probably want to grab. That just happens to be a moment where you have a lot of options.
 
Engo

Engo

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Messages
865
Location
the dog,the dog he's at it again!
I know this is kinda late but I think Druggedfox could've challenges Hbox in the air more with bair. Hbox seemed fine just going ontop of you at heights high enough for you to take advantage and get under him with a bair. You were playing the horizontal game more than anything but having puff in the air above you is so good.
 
A

All4G0dsGl0ry

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Messages
46
Is there somewhere I can find percents for certain match ups? I heard peach should be gotten to 40% before doing Nairs because it stops her crouch cancel. Maybe uthrow uair percents? Stuff like that
 
Kadano

Kadano

Magical Express
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
2,160
Location
Vienna, Austria
Yo Fox boards. I got asked about the Fox up throw chaingrab percentages against Fox, Falco and CF, and I’ve run a few tests with Dolphin. Here are my findings.
Do you agree with this? I feel really unsure about the chaingrab on CF being completely escapable, so if anyone here knows a Magus post on it or something equally trustworthy, please give it to me.
 
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Bones0

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
Kadano said:
Yo Fox boards. I got asked about the Fox up throw chaingrab percentages against Fox, Falco and CF, and I run a few tests with Dolphin. Here are my findings.
Do you agree with this? I feel really unsure about the chaingrab on CF being completely escapable, so if anyone here knows a Magus post on it or something equally trustworthy, please give it to me.
Click to expand...
I'm assuming the second sentence in the first line was a typo because you said "Falco", so I changed it to "Fox".
 
L

l will find peace

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 5, 2013
Messages
52
Against Fox, up throw can chain into itself regardless of DI from 0-65% damage.
Click to expand...
I'm 99.9999% sure that this is wrong. On no DI its very noticeable. Unless this is all PAL stuff and fox grab is different in both games.
 
Quot3

Quot3

Melee'er
Joined
May 10, 2013
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How is shine -> bair a legit combo? It just doesn't seem like the physics of the game would allow for that to work unless you have godlike finger speed. Is that all it is?
 
BTmoney

BTmoney

a l l b e c o m e $
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Columbus OH / Chicago (Plainfield) IL
Quot3 said:
How is shine -> bair a legit combo? It just doesn't seem like the physics of the game would allow for that to work unless you have godlike finger speed. Is that all it is?
Click to expand...
If you're talking about doing an aerial shine->bair it's pretty much useless but it's a cool thing to get on someone.

But yes it's possible, once you learn how to do it with Falco you pretty much do it the same way but faster with Fox. You kind of have to space your shine so your bair is as close as possible but yeah (you wan't the shine to send them in the direction of your bair). The best way to learn is watch someone do it then know that it's possible
 
Bones0

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
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Messages
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Jarrettsville, MD
Quot3 said:
How is shine -> bair a legit combo? It just doesn't seem like the physics of the game would allow for that to work unless you have godlike finger speed. Is that all it is?
Click to expand...
You don't need godlike finger speed. Down+B, Tap jump, C-stick left/right
It's possible because the bair comes out so quickly after the shine and when you space your shine on the bottom of the opponent's hurtbox, they don't even get level with you by the time the bair comes out, let alone below you.
 
D

Druggedfox

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Atlanta
Are you pivoting or something kadano?

In my experience you can jump out quite a bit earlier than 65% by not DI'ing (and yea I try pivoting), but maybe I'm doing something wrong or missing something. Around 45% on no DI I usually go for uptilt regrab variants or similar.

Can you elaborate at all? It honestly seems wrong to me but I'd love to hear an explanation before making any statements about it.

For any and all combos on falcon I've always theorized that what you can or can't do is *very* % specific. I've run a couple tests with like marth upthrow on falcon in training mode and you can do weird combos at very specific ranges, or even only at a specific %. I'm not sure how this would relate to fox on falcon combos but combos off throw on falcon in general seem very odd and I've always wanted to know the technical details of them.

Also I think it would be very useful to test out percentage ranges for upthrow -->charge up smash on fox and falco on all DIs where it still kills AND true combos.

I tested it out in training mode some but I'm obviously not frame perfect. I know for a fact I got upthrow charge upsmash on no DI on fox at 93 to combo (people always said you had to pivot charge upsmash but I know you can do it without it). If you're interested, I'd really appreciate any information on what %s you can do upthrow charge upsmash at and if it kills on good DI etc etc.
 
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Engo

Engo

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Joined
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the dog,the dog he's at it again!
Fox's grab combos on falcon require you to be more careful and reactive(compared to vs fox/falco) because his weight and fallingspeed makes it so they almost never happen the same way. As long as you're not on autopilot the combos aren't too hard though.
 
BTmoney

BTmoney

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l will find peace said:
just read what i typed

also, what programs do people use to test frames in dolphin? can you access debug mode through it or is something else needed?
Click to expand...
You are an ass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donkey) and you say a lot of things that make you seem pretentious when you're as new as you seem to be.
Try being a little bit less of an ass until you get good/respected, it'll make people want to help you and you'll have better discussions that way :).

And yes you can use debug mode in dolphin.
 
L

l will find peace

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 5, 2013
Messages
52
Blacktician said:
You are an *** (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donkey) and you say a lot of things that make you seem pretentious when you're as new as you seem to be.
Try being a little bit less of an *** until you get good/respected, it'll make people want to help you and you'll have better discussions that way :).

And yes you can use debug mode in dolphin.
Click to expand...
you shouldnt talk down to people who are better than you

also i dont need to suck people off because i dont need guidance to become a god. just need time

edit: THANKS for the INFO BLACKTICIAN-SAMA
 
Bones0

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
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Messages
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Jarrettsville, MD
Druggedfox said:
I tested it out in training mode some but I'm obviously not frame perfect. I know for a fact I got upthrow charge upsmash on no DI on fox at 93 to combo (people always said you had to pivot charge upsmash but I know you can do it without it). If you're interested, I'd really appreciate any information on what %s you can do upthrow charge upsmash at and if it kills on good DI etc etc.
Click to expand...
I remember testing Falco w/ no DI, and he can shine/jump out of uthrow usmash at 85% iirc.
 
Ezzee

Ezzee

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
187
What are some important percents to know? Like at what percent can someone escape up-throw -> Up-air (or u-throw -> usmash for spacies/falcon)? Other important things to know for comboing in general?
 
Pengie

Pengie

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
1,125
Location
Atlanta, GA
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Sinji

Sinji

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A Marth player from London named AC came down to here and played me yesterday. Had some good matches but with the inexperience in the Marth matchup I end up getting faired and making risky approaches that can get me gimped easily. Is it good to put Marth back in nuetral position even after you get a solid combo on him?
 
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