RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
At lower percents the jab reset forces stand, its the crux of the thunder's combo. Holding down does nothing to prevent that (afaik)
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Will shine OOS beat shinegrab?Shinegrab is good and people just don't do it enough.
You can get out of it with buffered rolls and spotdodges. Also if your shine is stale, you're vulnerable to being grabbed in between the shine and the grab.
That said, its still very good, and fox has no real business doing significant shield pressure anyway.
Good stuff, thanksShinegrab is good and people just don't do it enough.
You can get out of it with buffered rolls and spotdodges. Also if your shine is stale, you're vulnerable to being grabbed in between the shine and the grab.
That said, its still very good, and fox has no real business doing significant shield pressure anyway.
Why usmash for a single hit when you can grab instead and get a fat combo? Tighten your up your timing and you will be able to punish neutral get-up before the spotdodge even becomes an issue. Whether its usmash or any other attack, move selection / punishing is dependent on percents, match-up and positioning. Pick the move you think is best for the job at that moment.After I shine and they miss the tech, a lot of people do neutral get up > spot dodge. How do I punish this best? Just running USmash?
The popular Azen lightshield will always be effective. Roll to the edge of any platform and buffer a Z lightshield, and just chill. If your opponent makes physical contact with your massive shield, you fall off safely and can attack as you drop with bair. If they read this and try grab you, wavedash OOS to safety or roll / jump. I find this pretty foolproof with proper reactions.Hey Raynex, any ideas on how to stall out my opponents 2 second invincibility after he dies? I'm often put into very bad situations after killing a decent opponent,
If you slide off of a plat in shield with your back to the edge, you can't attack right away. You go into tumble that can't be cancelled immediately (this is why people always die when they lightshield an attack on Randall).Well, you can still attack its just your bair might be misplaced. If your opponent is falling with you dair / nair could substitute just fine. The real solution is to dash attack towards the edge of the platform so you're facing off it, then buffer the Z shield. You're back would be facing the aggressor for an easy bair as you're falling.
Multihit attacks break this strategy if you sit there: Fox's uair, Marth's nair and a few other moves, you're right. That's why you need have tight reactions and quickly determine what you're opponent is going for. You have so many options off the platform and out of your shield, its hard to go wrong.
Thanks, I'll give those methods a try although switching your grip from a JC grab to index on Y and thumb on C stick seems a little hard. I'll practice the first oneI personally use Y for the first jump, then Up on control stick + up on cstick for the double jump + uair. I think M2k's claw method of uthrow uair is the best, I've been trying to learn it. Index finger on Y and thumb on cstick supposedly gives you superior control. Any method is fine really. I think one of the more popular methods is X/Y twice and hit up+A. meh
He just shined, jump cancelled the shine, and then usmashed during jumpsquat.In this video, how is Mango doing shine up smashes? I see him pressing buttons rapidly but can't really tell what he's doing. Is there some technique to do it or is he just pressing down+B -> Up+A and mashing the A button just because?
here's the vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNcEuGB1Vbc
he gets a shine u smash to take Ice's second stock game 1 and last stock game 2.
In this video, how is Mango doing shine up smashes? I see him pressing buttons rapidly but can't really tell what he's doing. Is there some technique to do it or is he just pressing down+B -> Up+A and mashing the A button just because?
here's the vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNcEuGB1Vbc
he gets a shine u smash to take Ice's second stock game 1 and last stock game 2.
After you've grabbed your opponent you have a bit of time to switch positions and uthrow. It doesn't have to be that quick, actually.Thanks, I'll give those methods a try although switching your grip from a JC grab to index on Y and thumb on C stick seems a little hard. I'll practice the first one
I would love to see that too. What I think is hard with this type of thing is that many players have different styles and sometimes its not the matchup that really matters, its the player vs player aspect.I'm searching for the best videos to learn specific Match-ups (basically the most common ones: Fox, Falco, Sheik, Marth, Peach, Falcon, Puff, ICs). For Peach the latest Leffen vs Armada videos are probably the best, for Puff probably Mango vs Hbox from EVO? also newer M2K Videos against Hbox? Someone help me out a bit and link me to matches where the Fox plays the Matchup extremely well.
You literally press down B and then you press up AIn this video, how is Mango doing shine up smashes? I see him pressing buttons rapidly but can't really tell what he's doing. Is there some technique to do it or is he just pressing down+B -> Up+A and mashing the A button just because?
here's the vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNcEuGB1Vbc
he gets a shine u smash to take Ice's second stock game 1 and last stock game 2.
SSS (Super Smash Sundays)there are a lot of good "how to play this matchup" videos from the biweekly socal tournament called SSS or something?
their foxes especially do things very precisely.
Oh so you can up smash out of shine the same way you up smash OoS, by inputting up on control and c stick?You literally press down B and then you press up A
Up cancels the shine and charges the smash as he's jumping.
That's only if you wanna charge it.
Mashing up on both the Control stick and the C-stick is for the instant U-smash which is a lot more applicable and probably what Mango did.
Yup. Its the exact same situation. Jump out of shield = jump out of shine therefore the same JC options are available to you.Oh so you can up smash out of shine the same way you up smash OoS, by inputting up on control and c stick?
Technically, you can't usmash out of shield/shine. What you CAN do is JUMP out of shield/shine, and you can usmash/grab during jumpsquat frames. Hopefully that makes it clearer what steps to execute.Oh so you can up smash out of shine the same way you up smash OoS, by inputting up on control and c stick?
At low / mid percents:
Thunders into usmash is subpar because it isn't an optimal punish that rewards you with continued follow-ups 100% of the time. If your opponent d.i.s the usmash away you don't get a guaranteed anything, just a techchase. If you're close to an edge, their d.i. might even end your combo altogether. Fox is at his best against fastfallers when he lands a grab. Everything off uthrow is incredible, and landing a single one can be game changer. From 0-35% I'm a huge advocate of thunders > grab for these reasons. Further, Utilt / nair and other such follow-ups after uthrow give you more damage & combo opportunities than just a raw usmash.
If at any point your thunders takes your opponent to a stage's edge, double shine after the jab reset. Or do a low nair and double shine for more lift, better send, and more damage. The edge-guard off the doubleshine trajectory is usually very easy too.
At higher percents:
Jab reset is no longer reliable because of the possibility of buffer techrolls, so the optimal thing to do is react and DD grab. This entire situation can be sorted out with some patience and decent reactions. When I land drillshines / random shines at 50% - higher, these have been my staples over the years (in order of practicality):
- Drillshine > angle control stick for a shorter wavedash OOS > react to grounded options with JC grab.
(a shorter waveshine ensures you aren't too close and get tagged with get-up attacks. You can wait for it to whiff and JC grab it, but you're also close enough that you can react and catch backrolls or neutral get-ups)
- Drillshine > full length wavedash > dash & shield
(point blank shielding allows you to shield-grab get-up attacks and neutral get-up options, but also wavedash OOS to cover techs in either direction)
NEAR EDGE
- Drillshine > full length wavedash > down/angled Ftilt
(this is a true combo and just works wonders, old school Eggm tricksy)
Aside from these, use Melee's freeform system to adapt and create your own suitable alternatives. Techniques that cover multiple options are incredible, so keep the aforementioned in your backpocket, but feel free to deviate. The best smash players are the ones that think outside of the box.
I laughed out loud.i've been lying to my parents, saying that i've been playing marth for the past year.
The only thing one can do: become the superior Fox and crush them into the dust. This contrived "individuality" people strive for through (supposedly) new tech and flashy combos / techskill is artificial and subject to limitations. It could be 10 Foxes or 100000 Foxes, its ultimately irrelevant if you're one of the few that can actually push the character to victory when it matters most and under the most strenuous conditions.so fox players what are YOU doing in 2014 to differentiate yourself from all the other bozos playing lame?