Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Bones0]

anytips on shine nair/bair with fox
what part of the body do i have to shine someone for me to be able to land an arial?

You want to shine the bottom half of their body and the left or right side depending on which aerial you are using. It depends on how they DI as well. You can just practice on comps.

 

[omgwtfToph]

also wtf, just saw a shinedair with fox from the ledge on a luigi

WTF, how real is that ****

Zhu hit me with the craziest combo in fox dittos this weekend. He combo'd me into first-hit-uair -> utilt, which I SUPER smash DI'd to the side, and he ran and tried to shine usmash me - but he messed up the input and got shine FJ uair instead. Except I apparently smash DI'd up super hard on the shine, so THE UAIR CONNECTED LOL.

Pretty sure shine FJ uair has never worked in the history of smash lol.

 

[Bones0]

Idk what you're talking about. I shine FH uair all the time. Pretty much bnb for Fox at this point in the metagame.

 

[omgwtfToph]

Yeah? Well I've tripleshined SW, killed Hbox with a shield break, and Thunders combo'd Thunders.

All in friendlies lol but hey. :V

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

how many illusion/phantasm lengths are there
i only use 3 but i hear there are like 6
does fox have moar?

 

[Apasher]

I feel like I keep dash dancing in situations when I'm not supposed to. When should I be dashdancing and when should I sit back and shoot lasers?

Also, is the matchup thread even up to date?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

What match-up are you talking about? what situation? Smash isn't so general

 

[omgwtfToph]

how many illusion/phantasm lengths are there
i only use 3 but i hear there are like 6
does fox have moar?

I think 4.

Apasher you should think about the reason you're dashdancing before you ask a question like that. What are you trying to accomplish when you dashdance?

Also, what Sveet said.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

There are 6 lengths of fox's illusion (5 shortened lengths and the full length)

Fox Illusion
 
Total: 63
Fox starts moving away: 21
Hit: 22-25
Time to press B and stop Fox: 20-24
Can grab edge as early as 29
 
Landlag: 20
Landfallspeciallag: 3

 

[Apasher]

What match-up are you talking about? what situation? Smash isn't so general

Fox ditto

Fox vs Marth

Fox vs Sheik

Fox vs Peach

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

ok so theres 6 lengths
so how come we r so accustomed to the first shorten with no hit box and the other shorten that covers the lengths of a platform entirely?
i know we get the timing down so we have muscle memory but do most players miss their lengths they wanted to shorten
lol in such a short time you have to know all 4 middle lengths
= dont **** yourself over all this lol

 

[Vixen]

so um... no critique for my fox? .___.

Going to Zeneth, need all the work I can get. c:

 

[Bones0]

There are 6 lengths of fox's illusion (5 shortened lengths and the full length)

Fox Illusion
 
Total: 63
Fox starts moving away: 21
Hit: 22-25
Time to press B and stop Fox: 20-24
Can grab edge as early as 29
 
Landlag: 20
Landfallspeciallag: 3

Not every frame results in a different length. If anyone can check which shorten length you get for cancelling on which frames, that would be useful. There are only 4 lengths.
- 1 is the shortest shorten that moves you virtually no distance (you won't slide off the stage even if you were teetering on the ledge). It doesn't have a hitbox.
- 1 shorter-mid (1 hitbox)
- 1 longer-mid (2 hitboxes)
- 1 full length (3 hitboxes)

The best way to view these for yourself is to go to Battlefield, roll towards the ledge, then jump and Illusion and mark where you land. The ground distances are obviously shorter, but the number of lengths and their hitboxes are the same as the aerial ones.

 

[omgwtfToph]

told u there were 4

 

[_wzrd]

Zhu hit me with the craziest combo in fox dittos this weekend. He combo'd me into first-hit-uair -> utilt, which I SUPER smash DI'd to the side, and he ran and tried to shine usmash me - but he messed up the input and got shine FJ uair instead. Except I apparently smash DI'd up super hard on the shine, so THE UAIR CONNECTED LOL.

Pretty sure shine FJ uair has never worked in the history of smash lol.

woooow that's hilarious, his mistake turned out to be stupidly technical LOL.

****, can't wait to play with you guys more! what's norcals plan for post evo tourney?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

There are only 3 lengths from my tests... the first two cancel frames do the shortest distance, the next frame does a mid distance and the last 2 actually don't cancel at all. Im pretty shocked, myself. I saved screenshots of the lengths, but for some reason imgur is giving me a fatal error every time i try to upload them, so idk. Test on your own and get back to me.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

yea if there were 6 we wud be ****ing up our recoveries all the time

 

[Warhawk]

Zhu hit me with the craziest combo in fox dittos this weekend. He combo'd me into first-hit-uair -> utilt, which I SUPER smash DI'd to the side, and he ran and tried to shine usmash me - but he messed up the input and got shine FJ uair instead. Except I apparently smash DI'd up super hard on the shine, so THE UAIR CONNECTED LOL.

Pretty sure shine FJ uair has never worked in the history of smash lol.

I actually did this around 3-4 days ago on accident when I was bored playing around with a computer for fun when I messed up a shine reverse bair. I just paused and stared at the screen since I'd never seen it before ever and then just disregarded it after a few minutes as wack CPU DI. I thought it looked cool though.

Pretty funny to hear it actually happened in a match between players though lol.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

yea if there were 6 we wud be ****ing up our recoveries all the time

Honestly I always tried for a bunch of them. I can consistently hit the middle one (90%+ accuracy). I guess now I know that there aren't other ones and I should stop suiciding trying to get it (I thought I was just bad).

 

[omgwtfToph]

woooow that's hilarious, his mistake turned out to be stupidly technical LOL.

****, can't wait to play with you guys more! what's norcals plan for post evo tourney?

I dunno lol we don't think that far in advance. I'm sure there'll be a ton

 

[Bones0]

There are only 3 lengths from my tests... the first two cancel frames do the shortest distance, the next frame does a mid distance and the last 2 actually don't cancel at all. Im pretty shocked, myself. I saved screenshots of the lengths, but for some reason imgur is giving me a fatal error every time i try to upload them, so idk. Test on your own and get back to me.

If you do the Battlefield test like I described, these are the 4 landing spots:
- center of side plat
- inner-edge of side plat (almost teetering)
- center of top plat
- far ledge of top plat (almost teetering)

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

edge canceled side bs are swag post kill

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

If you do the Battlefield test like I described, these are the 4 landing spots:
- center of side plat
- inner-edge of side plat (almost teetering)
- center of top plat
- far ledge of top plat (almost teetering)

Oh yes, you're right. I don't know what happened in my previous test, i must have made a mistake. There are 4 lengths.

First 2 frames give the same shortness
3rd frame gives slightly more distance
4th frame gives a bit more
The rest give maximum range.

Here is a imgur gallery to show the lengths
http://imgur.com/a/qXo2r#0

 

[Bones0]

Does cancelling on the last 2 frames make the move end sooner or change which hitboxes appear? If there's no difference at all between cancelling on the last two frames that are indicated in the Frame Data thread, someone should change it to list the appropriate frames (along with a specification that there are 4 lengths).

Also, not to criticize your pic, but it's pretty hard to tell that they are even different because you did it on FD and the zoom is different. Any chance you could do it on BF in Fixed Camera Mode and have 4 Foxes, each one for a different length? That way people can see what I described above in regards to which plat you land on and where on the plat you land. Bonus points if you do the Falco one (which also only has 4 lengths).

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Yeah SDM's frame data is wrong in places. Fox starts the side b in an animation the game simply calls "304". The cancel frames are the same frames that fox is actually moving/has hitboxes, an animation called "305" which lasts 4 frames. After the movement fox enters the animation named "306" which lasts 40 or so frames or until he hits the ground.

Pressing B during the 305 animation skips it directly to the 306 animation. The 306 animation is the same regardless of the shorten; fox moves forward a slight amount, the same amount as if you cancel the 305 animation before the first or second frame.

And yeah, the pic isn't perfect, but I don't really care (dealwithit.gif). I could do what you said, but I don't have any motivation to do so tbh. If someone wants this, PM me about it at a later time and I probably will do it.

 

[clowsui]

Fox ditto

Fox vs Marth

Fox vs Sheik

Fox vs Peach

idk why you never IM me about melee. i know the game enough to educate you on it

 

[Bones0]

@Sveet
Fair enough. lol I may show off my Paint skills and just paste Foxes onto a pic of BF. XD

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

LOL

Ya no what, **** it. Im downloading the neverwinter beta right now so i can't really do anything else on the net. I'll post the pic up in a min (im gonna use FD though, sry)


Edit- Here ya go

edit2- idk why i called max length "frame 4 cancel". Im ****ing tired.

 

[Kadano]

Here are Screenshots of both Fox’ and Falco’s side-B lengths: http://www.mediafire.com/?hjl2qu7qnt2hzts
I did not put all of them in one image because that would’ve been way too cluttered.

305 animation can be skipped entirely by pressing B on 304’s last frame. Cancelling 305 on its first frame will bring you to the same spot, but one frame later.
Pressing B after 305’s third frame doesn’t do anything at all.

The cancel frames are the same frames that fox is actually moving/has hitboxes, an animation called "305" which lasts 4 frames.

That’s not true—305 only has an active hitbox from its third frame on, and Fox starts moving on frame 2.

 

[omgwtfToph]

^ lol im in ur avatar

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I didn't mean to imply that fox has hitboxes and moves for the entire 305 animation, but that is the animation where he has hitboxes and moves.


Also, when you are frame skipping and are paused on a frame, pressing a button and moving forward means you are pressing the button on the next frame. If you want to get really technical the input is actually read during an intermediate step between the frames. So when you say you are pressing B on 304's last frame, you actually mean 305's first frame. It is the 305 animation that is cancelable.

 

[Kadano]

@Toph: I think I remember an interview in which you said your name isn’t based on her?


Thanks for clearing that up, never really thought about that. Still, I find it hard to accept that I’m pressing it on 305’s last frame although that frame never happens.

Sorry for not understanding you properly.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

To prove it to you, do a frame perfect wavedash. Jump with fox and on the last frame of the jumpsquat press L/R and down and advance. You will wavedash without ever seeing an airborne frame.

http://gif-explode.com/?explode=http://i.imgur.com/14KbdIY.gif

 

[omgwtfToph]

@Toph: I think I remember an interview in which you said your name isn’t based on her?

Yeah, nowadays I mostly say things like that ironically. Or something.

 

[Slyer]

Hello everyone, relatively new here but have been playing as Fox for years. I used to have a great controller yet it disappeared somewhere during a move.

So...my problem is, the controller I currently use sucks in sensitivity, it's virtually impossible to wavedash correctly or short hop or even shield without applying so much pressure that subtlety is very difficult.

Figured I'd ask what controller type the best Foxes out there favor these days so I can buy one. Thanks so much!

 

[Bones0]

I like my sticks super fresh so I can tilt and make subtle changes more easily, but most people I talk to say they like their stick a little loose.

 

[Druggedfox]

I like working controllers lmao

After playing the game for like 8 years and going through way too many controllers that don't match what I want exactly I just finally settled on "working". If all the buttons/inputs read correctly I'm more than happy nowadays >_>

Buying any controller from nintendo should honestly be fine, though I think the consensus is that black controllers tend to be the best (though maybe I just only talk to people who say that).

 

[Slyer]

Well the controller in question, since I picked up Melee again recently, is a Mad Katz I bought when I was eighteen. That was like...uhh let me do some math...8 years ago.

I feel like I'm in some telemarketer's office when I play, the clicking and clacking is thunderous frankly rofl.

It's color is a milky white with blue grips, I guess that's bad heh. I'd always prefer the controller that came with the gamecube, but of course it is now lost.

As for the stick well, I broke it in but it doesn't help. The buttons depress like an inch before actions happen.

 

[Divinokage]

I like working controllers lmao

After playing the game for like 8 years and going through way too many controllers that don't match what I want exactly I just finally settled on "working". If all the buttons/inputs read correctly I'm more than happy nowadays >_>

Buying any controller from nintendo should honestly be fine, though I think the consensus is that black controllers tend to be the best (though maybe I just only talk to people who say that).

You have to make your controller, your soul. If after 8 years you still have controller johns, its pretty much you as a player that has a problem.

 

[rokimomi]

I've had my black controller since 2005, still works