Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[S l o X]

i was some dough today

money match me everyone

 

[PB&J]

http://www.twitch.tv/ayosled#

 

[genkaku]

sometimes when I have momentum on a platform and I shield on the very edge of it I go into tumble and fall off. What causes this?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Its based on the direction you're facing when you fall off. If you fall backwards off, you go into tumble. If you slide off forward, you don't.

 

[Bones0]

If you are shielding on a platform and you slide off with your back to the edge, you fall over. Fox and other FFers often start going into this tumble animation, but they actually end up landing before they flip 180 degrees. If you don't go completely upsidedown, you won't have to tech. It just cancels. This is why falling over is much more common with floaties, but it can still happen with FFers if you were on a high platform. It won't happen at all if you slide off while facing the edge. Those are the situations where players often get slide offs from an opponents attack and immediately counter attack immediately with bair. You can test both situations by simply WDing on a platform and keeping the trigger pressed in. You'll see your shield pop up briefly before your momentum carries you off and sends you either into tumble (if your back was to the edge) or free fall (if you were facing the edge).

 

[omgwtfToph]

happy new year to everyone pushing the metagame in 2013

edit:

Ye dog were roommates. Tukhouuouuuusee!

tukhooouuuuse

btw one thing I noticed that is kind of lame on yoshi's vs sheik is that it seems like sheik gets a lot of opportunities to edgecancel out of tumble/hitstun in combos on that stage

maybe I was just really unlucky though lol

 

[Silent Wolf]

I've been messing around with auto cancel bair on shield for pressure more and that **** is hella good. You basically want to put out a bair so it hits with the very last part before you land and so you don't have to l cancel it. If you do it right, you're able to shine before they're even able to begin anything (tested it with ar)

There's more than one way of going about it too. Either fj over their shield, or if they're on a platform, there's sneakier ways of getting it in. As a mix up and if spaced right its actually pretty safe too.

I've never seen a fox use it like this but I have seen pp do it with falcos sh bair. Like him vs axe at kings of cali. doing it into shine grab, shine rising dair no ff or even just grab are all hella good in my experience.

Like all pressuere tho, u need to know how to use it for it to be effective. And how you choose to follow up the bair is character dependent

 

[Dark Hart]

Wait you can autocancel Fox's Bair?

(O.o)

... How? I must know

 

[Silent Wolf]

land before its over, but not too early lol

 

[unknown522]

Full hop

 

[oksas]

hey engo would you want to mm my fox?

 

[kd-]

ill MM some dooos

HMU

GUYS IM NOT THAT AFRAID OF FOX DITTOS ANYMORE!!

NO MORE MARTH FOR ME!!!

Worst news ever. I still might be switching to Marth anyway, we can run back our matches and I can still get ripT :[ :]

Wait you can autocancel Fox's Bair?

(O.o)

... How? I must know

I thought you can autocancel every aerial if you use Z as the 'attack
button and you're low enough to the ground.

 

[Bones0]

Check the hitbox thread to see which frames moves autocancel on. Almost all aerials autocancel for a few frames at the beginning and end. It has nothing to do with what button you press or whether or not you input an L-cancel.

 

[Dark Hart]

Full hop

This was the answer I was looking for haha

 

[Construct]

I thought you can autocancel every aerial if you use Z as the 'attack
button and you're low enough to the ground.

That's not what autocancelling is at all. What you do when you do an aerial with Z very close to the ground is option-select an L-cancel along with the aerial. You can use Z to L-cancel as well as perform aerial attacks, so pressing Z within 7 frames of hitting the ground does both for you.

Autocancelling, on the other hand, is when you land in a certain part of the move and it only gives you the landing lag that you would normally get from landing, no additional move-lag. A good example of this is Marth's n-air. The move autocancels well before it ends, meaning you can laglessly hit the ground before you're able to dj/input a new move/airdodge/whatever. (The move in total lasts 49 frames, but you can autocancel it starting on frame 25)

 

[kd-]

You're right, I used the wrong term. I meant to say the option select l cancel:

pressing Z within 7 frames of hitting the ground does both for you.

Seems like you could be more consistent with Z, rather than autocanceling a low bair but I guess it's technology that leads to the same result anyway

Edit: i guess option select isn't a great term for that either, because option select picks one of the best and in this situation you're doing both. Whatever ^_-

 

[voorhese]

Holy crap, I didn't know moves auto canceled b4 finished!!!! I have always told everyone they have to time it so the move fully ends right about when they hit the ground.

 

[PB&J]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=E9FHMm5rtIc

this is how my fox moonwalks now

 

[S1 The God]

hahaha yoooo nonstop actually commented on that. that's crazy.

 

[Bones0]

You're right, I used the wrong term. I meant to say the option select l cancel:



Seems like you could be more consistent with Z, rather than autocanceling a low bair but I guess it's technology that leads to the same result anyway

Edit: i guess option select isn't a great term for that either, because option select picks one of the best and in this situation you're doing both. Whatever ^_-

Sorry, but WHAT THE **** are you talking about? lol

Z doesn't autocancel. Z L-cancels. Autocancelling has significantly less lag than L-cancelling. You can't autocancel a low bair because the move won't be in autocancel frames, and if you use Z to bair high enough so that you will autocancel, the Z input won't L-cancel in case you mess up anyway.

 

[PK Webb]

bones.......................z doesnt cancel anything

 

[unknown522]

You can l-cancel with Z

 

[Construct]

bones.......................z doesnt cancel anything

You can L-cancel with Z. Z-cancelling was the original smooth-landing tech from 64. Hbox Z-cancels, and I'm sure other top players do as well. I do it, but who the hell cares

 

[Bones0]

bones.......................z doesnt cancel anything

...

 

[S l o X]

bones why arent you in strawhats pool

 

[PGH Carroll]

strawhats bout to get stolen on by renth tho

 

[unknown522]

Yo Otto vs tect at apex. I'm looking forward to that.

Just don't mistake him for toph

 

[Metal Reeper]

bones.......................z doesnt cancel anything

Twebb sucks
exposed

 

[Tero.]

Autocancel basically is just the attack finishing before you hit the ground. Only normal landing lag (4 frames) remains.
As far as I remember Bair can only autocancel when used in a full height jump.

Z does the same as light press R/L. No differences here.

 

[PB&J]

hahaha yoooo nonstop actually commented on that. that's crazy.

Guess you didnt know but that is Nonstop in the video

 

[PK Webb]

Twebb sucks
exposed

do me this favor and hop off my sack kid...as for z cancels i didnt know that because when i usually see ppl use z (hbox and otg) they told me they were using them for aerials and thats it. learn something new everyday

 

[Jim Morrison]

The future of simultaneous shielding has arrived.

 

[voorhese]

The future of simultaneous shielding has arrived.

explain plox.

 

[Jim Morrison]

grounded shine oos turnaround grab
Now people will never be able to get in the situation where both shield with their backs to each other.

 

[voorhese]

Yeah, this is good, and also known =P

 

[Jim Morrison]

In theory, yes.

 

[voorhese]

well I mean, spacing beats it, just like grab oos. but if you are both in your shield right next to each other, yeah pretty good.

 

[Silent Wolf]

**** has been done since shine grab came out. aka years ago lol

 

[Jim Morrison]

k ignore me lel

 

[Stijn]

If I up-throw spacies on around 0 to 20 percent, whats the best option? I usually Up-smash, but is something else like, better? (Up-tilt, SH Uair etc.)