Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Lovage]

bones you're a regular day insanecarzyguy

 

[Bones0]

The aerial won't come out in time.

Falco
Airborne on: 6
SH Air Time: 25
Earliest FF: 14
SH FF air time: 17

Fox
Airborne on: 4
SH air time: 21
Earliest FF: 12
SH FF air time: 15

Nair and bair hit on frame 4, but you only have 3 frames before you land after the soonest possible FF. Strong Bad pointed this out in the Falco forums a while back.

 

[Strong Badam]

Correct, however fastfall buffers for 3 frames, so you can "FF" (as in, input your FF) and then aerial immediately afterward and have it still work.

 

[Bones0]

Yeah, thanks. I was actually wondering if the FF buffer was 2 or 3 frames last night. Is that the only thing in Melee that only buffers for a certain number of frames? I've been thinking that shield dropping may work the same, but my AR won't work on my Cube.

 

[the real jman]

^

10 jmans

edit: so jman what you up to these days anyway

Just chillien working liveing day by day I do tattos now as well if anybodys in to tattoos

 

[Strong Badam]

jump buffers for some number of frames I don't know and only in certain hitstun animation subactions that are randomized when you get hit.

 

[Bones0]

Just chillien working liveing day by day I do tattos now as well if anybodys in to tattoos

Give me a Melee tattoo, yo. I also have an amazing idea that you can make millions off of:

SCRATCH AND SNIFF TATTOOS
(patent pending)

jump buffers for some number of frames I don't know and only in certain hitstun animation subactions that are randomized when you get hit.

Like jumping out of stun if you get daired into the ground at low % by Falco?

 

[Strong Badam]

aerial hitstun animations

 

[Jim Morrison]

What are some general tips and good moves against Luigi? I have literally no matchup expierence in this other than "shine works well", but I'm having trouble hitting it since I have no idea how to fight this janky character. I really don't want to lose to it lol.

 

[Bones0]

I think you're supposed to grab and uthrow-uair a lot (just keeping in mind it doesn't combo). Idk why you would want to shine a lot since you have to be frame perfect or some dumb **** in order to do anything out of it, but maybe you can get grabs from them holding shield after the stun ends or something.

 

[Jim Morrison]

I can't U-throw U-air since he can just mash N-air through it. Of course, I can wait for the nair and then punish when it ends, but all I get that is a back-air and even that is hard to time since Nair lasts a really, really long time and low ending lag.

 

[Bones0]

Well that's what Winston told me one time, so I just figured I'd throw it out there. I don't think I've ever played a Luigi with Fox myself... maybe like < 10 times ever. >_>

 

[crush]

Shine -> side b

 

[PGH Carroll]

Easyyyy MU. I can point some fox luigi stuff out later when I'm off work.

 

[commonyoshi]

Correct, however fastfall buffers for 3 frames, so you can "FF" (as in, input your FF) and then aerial immediately afterward and have it still work.

Good. I was about to say screw the math because I know I'm doing it, haha.

 

[the real jman]

Give me a Melee tattoo, yo. I also have an amazing idea that you can make millions off of:

SCRATCH AND SNIFF TATTOOS
(patent pending)



Like jumping out of stun if you get daired into the ground at low % by Falco?

I can deff do that for u but the part u said about makeing millions off of I'm deff in just let me no inbox me bro

 

[Veetaak]

Shine -> side b

That's cheating

 

[Jim Morrison]

Shine -> side b

I know this sounds awesome in theory which is why I've tried this already a long time ago a lot of times, but it sadly always ends up in me getting combo'd like an idiot (read: it doesn't combo)

 

[voorhese]

It kind of works after one of those upthrow to ff upairs (and shine instead of using an uptilt)

 

[unknown522]

I think you're supposed to grab and uthrow-uair a lot (just keeping in mind it doesn't combo). Idk why you would want to shine a lot since you have to be frame perfect or some dumb **** in order to do anything out of it, but maybe you can get grabs from them holding shield after the stun ends or something.

you shine him so that you can trap him at the edge, or so that gen you do grab then you can throw him off the stage

 

[Wenbobular]

I know this sounds awesome in theory which is why I've tried this already a long time ago a lot of times, but it sadly always ends up in me getting combo'd like an idiot (read: it doesn't combo)

It's pretty hard to do fast enough to combo but it does combo
Dunno if it breaks holding down though

Grab -> upthrow usually lets you do your upair in a way that will outrange nair if done properly
From there you can usually combo into another upair

Personally I like just getting in their face and nairing a bunch
At low % you can actually just take dsmashes, CC them and just continue nairing

 

[RyeJew]

Ok, so recently I've been experimenting with different methods of short hop nairing. I always used to just nair as soon as possible off the short hop and then fast fall, but now I'm trying out short hop, fast falling, and then doing the nair on the way down. It seems like both styles have their own subtle advantages.

Does anyone actually use both methods in their game and has any information on which option is more appropriate in a given scenario?

Late ff nair > is pretty **** on most characters low/mid%. It's a pretty nice mix up on shields too to maximize its hitstun and catch dropped shields (just be careful not to get grabbed/ make sure to react property)

I know this sounds awesome in theory which is why I've tried this already a long time ago a lot of times, but it sadly always ends up in me getting combo'd like an idiot (read: it doesn't combo)

It'd be the same timing as a multishine. Just shift the position of the control stick in time.

As for other things concerning the fox luigi mu just be aware of when luigi wavedashes in shield his pokes and counter with a correct aerial (If he slides far you can drop shield then dash aerial aerial or dash attack if high%>uair and if you are low percent cc the super laggy dsmash and shine if low percent or usmash if they're high). If they wd grab just jump over and bair or spotdodge shine Shine sends him very far treat him like nana/ics and abuse his subpar recovery to score clean bairs on side bs or shine trades on the upb (position yourself for these and you should be fine).

 

[Lovage]

easy matchup use your legs (nair and bair)

shine side+b is a legit combo, often links into bair after, nothing wrong with doing it out as long as you have enough stage in front of you

Ok, so recently I've been experimenting with different methods of short hop nairing. I always used to just nair as soon as possible off the short hop and then fast fall, but now I'm trying out short hop, fast falling, and then doing the nair on the way down. It seems like both styles have their own subtle advantages.

Does anyone actually use both methods in their game and has any information on which option is more appropriate in a given scenario?

welcome to melee there are 10 ways to do each move and they all have a purpose

as for your question, think about how the hitstun works, part of shield pressure is "putting" your hitstun in certain places.

 

[voorhese]

^ yup, I am fairly new to this concept, **** is whack. I would focus more on extending your aerials as well (it is a great feeling jumping with the nair later than your opponent expected, and to catch them running away (to try and outspace you).

As for what lovage was saying with shield pressure, it is REALLY important to be able to use different aerial timings/time your fast fall differently/mix up shine grabs and double shines etc. The reason is one because you will get punish less often in general because you aren't doing the same thing(s) over and over, but sitting in your shield knowing that your opposing fox has a lot of tools and control over them is pretty scary, you will find A LOT of players just sit in their shields (and even make it their go to because they are so afraid).

Now with that you get a couple advantages, one being that you can more or less now abuse the hell out of your shinegrab and 2 because they are afraid of you, you can just continue to take space from them until either they make sudden decisions and you can both easily and heavily punish OR you can extend an aerial to the point where they CANNOT run any further back at all, and just sit on their shield again.

After being around cunningkitsune so long I am a HUGE advocate for shinegrabs. Grabbing is arguably fox's STRONGEST tool, and shield pressure is tough (and the reward is < a grab imo).

 

[Bones0]

It's a huge mind**** seeing people realize stuff that blew my mind like a year ago. Now I know how top players must feel all the time. lol

 

[KirbyKaze]

welcome to melee there are 10 ways to do each move and they all have a purpose

I think this summarizes Melee's combat interactions pretty well.

 

[omgwtfToph]

Jman the ****in tattoo artist.

 

[Nedved]

Hey Fox board !
I recently switch mains for Fox over Sheik. I still have a lot of problems and mistakes, cause i don't know what to do in a lot of situation.
I recorded few matches, and I'm going to upload them asap.
If you have some recommandations.... =)
Fox dittos :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJVW1CGcRek
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6jDkt2Uh2c (Second part)

 

[DerfMidWest]

only watched the first match:
-your movement is really choppy (i have a similar problem)
-Your friend over commits to nair early on, your ftilt can beat that out
-work on your DD game
-you still seem new to the character, so learn how fox combos work.
-DI is not very good, try to work on that a bit
-you keep stuff simple, thats pretty good, but learn how people try to escape that simple stuff and mix it up

thats all I got for now, hopefully a better fox can give more advice ^^

 

[Jim Morrison]

Nedved:
Think faster, make decisions faster, but wait more often.

 

[Wenbobular]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppvcU-g1Bdw&feature=plcp

Me vs Cactuar if anyone is interested

I think Chillin vs Cactuar is also on that Youtube account from this past weekend

 

[the real jman]

Jman the ****in tattoo artist.

Yea man u already no funny thing is I'm pretty tatted my self now people prolly won't even no that's me if they saw me from how many I got now

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Correct, however fastfall buffers for 3 frames, so you can "FF" (as in, input your FF) and then aerial immediately afterward and have it still work.

Learned something new, yay.

This should go in TAI's thread ^_^

Instead of being buried in Fox boards forever like everything else lol

welcome to melee there are 10 ways to do each move and they all have a purpose

I like this phrase. A lot.

Gonna steal it.

Except I'd replace "10" with "a billion".

 

[PGH Carroll]

Tim mah ****in DUNCAN

 

[Parralax]

I am new and I don't have a thorough understanding of of shield stun but is double shine or triple shine>waveshine behind>waveshine on the spot (down/stationary) an acceptable form of shield pressure? Or am i better of doing nair>shine>space nair> dd>.... rinse and repeat /mix up?

 

[voorhese]

short answer yes and no.

if at ANY time your opponent guesses when you will wavedash into their shield/straight down they can grab you. doubleshine/trippleshine is however fairly safe.

shields are tricky, there is nothing fox can do to my knowledge that is absolutely safe on shield/locks people in their shield

aerials done high on the shield/early are easier to grab than aerials late/low on the shield. because of that late aerial -> shine is un-grab-able, BUT it can be punished b4 the aerial comes out...shield pressure is literally rock paper scissors.

 

[Nedved]

Multi shining, if you can do it perfectly, is the perfect pressure (on Shield, they have only one frame to move) If you can do it, your combo is good. You can also, after wavedashing beind, mix up with nair shine instead of waveshine for exemple. Or multi shine again lol

 

[Parralax]

Ok thanks. I will work on delaying my aerials. I have one other question though. Is the lag on dash-grabs high enough that I should avoid using them? I notice that most people use JC grabs exclusively.

I think it is a spacing thing, easier to punish people if you are closer to them but I am just curious why I don't see it done very often.

 

[Nedved]

With almost every character, you will use JC grab or boost grab.
Fox has a good range and don't like to be punished, so JC grabs are better in a lot of case. And you're fast enough to position yourself well enough to grab with JC grab.
About boost grab, i use them a lot with Sheik, but I don't know about Fox.

 

[voorhese]

you can't get grabbed out of multishining if timed well no, but they can just buffer a roll away...like I said, rock paper scissors.