PB&J
Smash Hero
It has been actually frustrating me lately watching people dash dance so far away and letting people back from the ledge. Closing the gap,makes a big difference i think
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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-
- Thread starter Silent Wolf
- Start date
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
@Sveet some of those recoveries are mad terrible
Don't ever give a Marth that's not jumping out to kill you easy Fsmash edgeguards by conveniently landing at their feet
Also get better at sweetspotting from below the ledge so they can't just ledgehop spike for free ... make them change their timings or try something different
Shorten!!
Ledgehop illusion kinda sucks if they're just standing away from the ledge ... waveland on the lip or something <_<
I'm sure someone else can talk about punishing harder because you never hit him that hard off a clean hit / grab ~_~
Don't ever give a Marth that's not jumping out to kill you easy Fsmash edgeguards by conveniently landing at their feet
Also get better at sweetspotting from below the ledge so they can't just ledgehop spike for free ... make them change their timings or try something different
Shorten!!
Ledgehop illusion kinda sucks if they're just standing away from the ledge ... waveland on the lip or something <_<
I'm sure someone else can talk about punishing harder because you never hit him that hard off a clean hit / grab ~_~
Fortress | Sveet
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Well the set is kinda unique. Teczero and I had played for hours and hours the week before this tournament (i housed him for like 3 days), so there was a strong metagame between us. Probably ~30 hours of smashfests. He won the majority of our games, so I was basically making up a lot of stuff on the fly to keep him on his toes during this set.
As for my recoveries, i didn't go low very often because I already learned how efficient he is at covering low recoveries. For the record, I commonly use at least 3 shorten lengths as well as various low sweetspots; while these work on 99% of players at least once, tec0 beat them the first time he saw them. I was mostly looking for ways to 1) get my jump back, 2) force an error (wiff/get hit), 3) get hit by a move that will send me on stage or upward. I also messed up a few of my recoveries and died for it (1/game i think).
Honestly, I choose to keep my distance for many reasons. 1) its not always my job to close the distance. 2) it is safer to engage somewhere other than the edge.
For #1, by claiming the middle I have a physical advantage and don't have to move towards him. Also, fox can out maneuver sheik/marth by staying out of their range and exploiting their unsafe movement. If he must move towards me, this gives me better options to attack him than if he knew i was going to attack and chose not to move.
For #2, another lesson i learned a while back. Holding the edge is actually a fairly defensible position, though moving forward from there can be quite unsafe. I was simply choosing favorable ground.
Hidden option #3, the best option is often the worst option. Teczero is really good at observing and understanding what you want to do, so I often chose to wait or move in confusing ways for him. My tech skill was a little off but I chose to react to my own "mistakes" and allow that to confuse him as well, while focusing on fundamentals to get solid victories.
As for my recoveries, i didn't go low very often because I already learned how efficient he is at covering low recoveries. For the record, I commonly use at least 3 shorten lengths as well as various low sweetspots; while these work on 99% of players at least once, tec0 beat them the first time he saw them. I was mostly looking for ways to 1) get my jump back, 2) force an error (wiff/get hit), 3) get hit by a move that will send me on stage or upward. I also messed up a few of my recoveries and died for it (1/game i think).
Honestly, I choose to keep my distance for many reasons. 1) its not always my job to close the distance. 2) it is safer to engage somewhere other than the edge.
For #1, by claiming the middle I have a physical advantage and don't have to move towards him. Also, fox can out maneuver sheik/marth by staying out of their range and exploiting their unsafe movement. If he must move towards me, this gives me better options to attack him than if he knew i was going to attack and chose not to move.
For #2, another lesson i learned a while back. Holding the edge is actually a fairly defensible position, though moving forward from there can be quite unsafe. I was simply choosing favorable ground.
Hidden option #3, the best option is often the worst option. Teczero is really good at observing and understanding what you want to do, so I often chose to wait or move in confusing ways for him. My tech skill was a little off but I chose to react to my own "mistakes" and allow that to confuse him as well, while focusing on fundamentals to get solid victories.
I find this to be actually really funny LOL.
Although I feel like I am more of a 'read' player than a 'textbook' player I'm not sure how effective this was against me tbh.
I will say that coming into this set, I had a definitive game plan and how to approach your style based on friendlies partially. So even though it might have affected me in some spots, it didn't affect me very much overall.
Fortress | Sveet
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yeah, it didn't always work out to my benefit, but I had tried playing you "standard" and you were very experienced in it. Had to pull out the MW jank 
Mostly it was like dash attacking or fullhoping when I didn't mean to. Instead of letting it get to me, I simply accepted my position and worked with what I had. Obviously having more control would be the best solution, but at the current time thats all i had to work with haha
Mostly it was like dash attacking or fullhoping when I didn't mean to. Instead of letting it get to me, I simply accepted my position and worked with what I had. Obviously having more control would be the best solution, but at the current time thats all i had to work with haha
Oh, thats because theres a ton of standard foxes on EC haha.
The MW style definitely worked a bit LOL.
The MW style definitely worked a bit LOL.
unknown522
Some guy
So apparently my friend here thinks that fox's n-air hitting sounds like a garbage bag full of leaves hitting the ground.
Discuss.
Discuss.
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
I wanna know what kind of leaves he's raking in
unknown522
Some guy
Apparently windrose is taking in maple leaves
Windrose
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2009
- Messages
- 1,470
wenbo, go fill a garbage bag full of leaves and drop it to the ground from a random height.
record the sound and listen to it.
you'll instinctively recognize this sound and feel that your hand wants to L-cancel this bag and proceed to pressing down b.
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
Haha ... I guess it sounds kinda like it (envisioning it in my head)
unknown522
Some guy
Wenbo, no....it's a trap
JPOBS
Smash Hero
its kind of crazy that as good as mango is, there's a ton of stuff he doesn't do. He never wavelands from the edge, doesnt shai/shield drop, doesn't shorten illusions, among other things.
stop it with your fancy tech skills guys, nairing better is how you win tournys.
stop it with your fancy tech skills guys, nairing better is how you win tournys.
unknown522
Some guy
He wavelands from the edge
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
How often do you guys play smash?
How often do you guys practice techskill?
Interested in hearing from everybody.
How often do you guys practice techskill?
Interested in hearing from everybody.
rokimomi
Smash Lord
bamppity bamp
Bones0
Smash Legend
Only with Falcon. He doesn't ledgedash with spacies. He just WLs onto plats.He wavelands from the edge
I play the one person who lives near me one a week on average. I practice tech skill around 1/3 days, but when I do I practice 4+ hours.
JPOBS
Smash Hero
I don't play this game anymore. I just watch vids and spam the boards.
unknown522
Some guy
I just went to a casual
Warhawk
Smash Lord
I almost never see him do this unless its onto a platform from the edge lol
unknown522
Some guy
normally I would go try to find a link, but not for this one.
I also did play/watch him in person when he came to impulse and definitely saw some
I also did play/watch him in person when he came to impulse and definitely saw some
Wake
Smash Master
I usually practice by myself every day and play with people once a week or so.
Fortress | Sveet
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This summer? I played 2 times a week minimum, 5 times a week around tournaments. Practiced tech skill for like 2 hours total the whole summer
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Oh, he is beatable, you just have to read him somehow. For me, it works out well because the more attacks someone does, the more I have chances to counter-attack.
Bones0
Smash Legend
He probably only does it in friendlies, honestly. If he does do it, it's rare. His entire set vs. Armada he was WLing onto plats. Even on DL he was airdodging onto the platform instead of just ledgedashing into a free usmash/grab.
unknown522
Some guy
maybe
Fortress | Sveet
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no but for cereal, can I get some crit on this vid? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zWGi_1bkQA I know i saw chillin and unknown lurkin...
Bones0
Smash Legend
I have it opened in a tab in my browser. I'll make one when I get a chance.
@Sveet
stream of consciousness
no laser. . . . too hastey in approaching. good shines good bair. . . .easy stock huge lead. . . . learn to D throw near the edge instead of up throw. . .
ooooh
even match. GET ****ED. . . dude good top platform. too hasetey to jump into a bad position and get scraped. teczero is good tho so .dam!! shine spike.
even match again. . . get ****ed up by being bad between stock. great drill shine into get ****ed for bad luck/position/timing. huge defecit on last stock. need more clutch shine here to even up. try to fore marth onto the edge and maintain control/build damage .
even match~~~
and you SD LOL!!
g2.
good CP to DL but zero got the sheik. Tech chasing. . . freedom. good shine grab bad up throw use :]
aaaah too hastey to side b. .
3-4
NOT ENOUGH LASER: see my guide.
drill to grab > drill to shine.
need to use lasers more. try to control the pace of the game, dont feeel you need to be the aggressor. fox plays excellently in the opposite style. both are necessary.
try to use laser/back air to build percent early. Don't go for nair until her CCis less functional.
made up the stock well but got screwed up ... hastey off the top platform good down tilt. roll. get ****ed .
build percent and play evasive rather than aggressive. good evasion opens up spots for aggression by forcing them to extend.
YS
you should watch some old Jman and m2k and pick up their laser style. good **** on the lead. maintain???
nope.
no lasers still. DAM waveland shine is cute. when you force marth to theedge with shine try to maintain control by abusing his poor options off the edge.
if nothing else. laser more.
risky risky. good platform play gets negated by letting him shield grab. stock lead. . . even.
it looks like you really lose a lot to yourself by not being able to maintain your leads and press for percent advantage as hard as you can.
laser.
chewed up on the top.
drill to side b ftl. GG!!
<3
stream of consciousness
no laser. . . . too hastey in approaching. good shines good bair. . . .easy stock huge lead. . . . learn to D throw near the edge instead of up throw. . .
ooooh
even match. GET ****ED. . . dude good top platform. too hasetey to jump into a bad position and get scraped. teczero is good tho so .dam!! shine spike.
even match again. . . get ****ed up by being bad between stock. great drill shine into get ****ed for bad luck/position/timing. huge defecit on last stock. need more clutch shine here to even up. try to fore marth onto the edge and maintain control/build damage .
even match~~~
and you SD LOL!!
g2.
good CP to DL but zero got the sheik. Tech chasing. . . freedom. good shine grab bad up throw use :]
aaaah too hastey to side b. .
3-4
NOT ENOUGH LASER: see my guide.
drill to grab > drill to shine.
need to use lasers more. try to control the pace of the game, dont feeel you need to be the aggressor. fox plays excellently in the opposite style. both are necessary.
try to use laser/back air to build percent early. Don't go for nair until her CCis less functional.
made up the stock well but got screwed up ... hastey off the top platform good down tilt. roll. get ****ed .
build percent and play evasive rather than aggressive. good evasion opens up spots for aggression by forcing them to extend.
YS
you should watch some old Jman and m2k and pick up their laser style. good **** on the lead. maintain???
nope.
no lasers still. DAM waveland shine is cute. when you force marth to theedge with shine try to maintain control by abusing his poor options off the edge.
if nothing else. laser more.
risky risky. good platform play gets negated by letting him shield grab. stock lead. . . even.
it looks like you really lose a lot to yourself by not being able to maintain your leads and press for percent advantage as hard as you can.
laser.
chewed up on the top.
drill to side b ftl. GG!!
<3
Bones0
Smash Legend
It seems like you typed that while watching the match. lol
unknown522
Some guy
Uh oh. Was someone on my account last night?
Cuz I definitely wasn't lurking at that time
Cuz I definitely wasn't lurking at that time
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
Let's talk about upcoming tournaments.
Big House 2. GOIN TO DAT
Rom5. GOIN TO DAT (SCAR is also GOIN TO DAT)
APEX. GOIN TO DAT
How bout you guys?
Big House 2. GOIN TO DAT
Rom5. GOIN TO DAT (SCAR is also GOIN TO DAT)
APEX. GOIN TO DAT
How bout you guys?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I have intentions to go to those three. Not sure which one will be gimped by school though (one always is).
Fortress | Sveet
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I am planning on APEX
Dark Hart
Rejected by Azua
Warhawk
Smash Lord
Yea I wasn't saying he doesn't do it I just think its funny how he wavelands way more onto platforms than the stage from the edge whereas most everyone else is the opposite.
