Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[EWC]

Lol I didn't know I was being graded on style.

If you notice that your opponent likes to di the shine up so they can side-b, then you can do silly things like shine->wavedash back fastfall shine.

Maybe you could even make the second one a shine bair? Or the first one a double shine? Or both?

Man I wish I had tech skill.

 

[Bones0]

My usual punish is uthrow, shine, WD, shine hog (while hitting them), shine-bair, Scar jump shine, drift down while they up-B, shine them again out of their up-B, then up-B back to the ledge. Sometimes I like to do fancy stuff though.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Lol I didn't know I was being graded on style.

There is always extra credit for style

 

[Van.]

My usual punish is uthrow, shine, WD, shine hog (while hitting them), shine-bair, Scar jump shine, drift down while they up-B, shine them again out of their up-B, then up-B back to the ledge. Sometimes I like to do fancy stuff though.

Quality post. Very solid humor imo

So how do yall feel about jabbing or buffering spotdodge to beat falcons nair-->grab at low percents, or techasing him when he DI's at low percents? Does anyone know of the top of their head when you can get nair/dash attack/upsmash on falcon when he does DI?

Also any large, comprehensive marth MU posts by top foxes someone could link me too? I appreciate it. I tried searching but to no avail.

 

[Lovage]

your best bet is di + sdi his nair away and then buffer roll or try to jump before he grabs you

you def. don't have the time to jab in that situation, spotdodge can work but it makes more sense to stay mobile usually

as for comboing u can start uthrow usmashing at like 25 or something, use usmash if he DI's, utilt if he doesn't DI, use nair at higher percents.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Crouch > sidestep is a decent answer to illegitimate aerial > grab plays but beware of him simply doing another aerial (which happens). Falcon's heavy aerials are notoriously good against sidesteps.

 

[Zoler]

If you ever land a doubleshine on Falco by the ledge, you can be confident that he'll have to up-B and therefore you should immediately go out there and shine him (because unlike Fox you don't have to worry about his up-B flames burning you).

In general as soon as you know Falco is going to be below the ledge, you should immediately go out there and shine spike.

Fox sometimes requires a little more finesse.

I'm pretty sure if the falco doesn't suck at DI he will be able to side-b. Not sure about getting on the stage but to the ledge sure.

 

[Van.]

your best bet is di + sdi his nair away and then buffer roll or try to jump before he grabs you

you def. don't have the time to jab in that situation, spotdodge can work but it makes more sense to stay mobile usually

as for comboing u can start uthrow usmashing at like 25 or something, use usmash if he DI's, utilt if he doesn't DI, use nair at higher percents.

I thought if he didn't DI you could get Usmash from 0? It sure feels like it...


thanks lovage and KK

 

[omgwtfToph]

I'm pretty sure if the falco doesn't suck at DI he will be able to side-b. Not sure about getting on the stage but to the ledge sure.

I actually think you're dead wrong. Find me a video.

Regardless, even if you're correct, the point here is that as soon as you know Falco is below the ledge and has to up-B you should be going out there to shine him. A lot of good Foxes still do not do this.

 

[Sixth-Sense]

Can anybody please explain what is and how to do the PC Chris edgeguard? tried finding it but no luck in finding a solid piece of info on it, plus i've done a couple of times and it seems cool as ****. Thanks in advance

Oh and i'm asking here seeing as PC uses fox (just in case)

 

[Zoler]

I actually think you're dead wrong. Find me a video.

Regardless, even if you're correct, the point here is that as soon as you know Falco is below the ledge and has to up-B you should be going out there to shine him. A lot of good Foxes still do not do this.

I don't have a video but I played recently and we talked about this exact subject and with DI IIRC falco could side-b and survive every time.

Same should be done vs fox, just gotta learn the timing for when the fire goes away (just before it starts travelling).

 

[unknown522]

zoler is definitely right. I know that I have phantasm'd people after getting double shined off the stage

 

[Strong Badam]

Can anybody please explain what is and how to do the PC Chris edgeguard? tried finding it but no luck in finding a solid piece of info on it, plus i've done a couple of times and it seems cool as ****. Thanks in advance

Oh and i'm asking here seeing as PC uses fox (just in case)

The PC edgehog is when you walk toward the ledge and then turn around, with your forward momentum carrying you off the ledge and then you grab the ledge as you're facing toward it.

 

[Sixth-Sense]

The PC edgehog is when you walk toward the ledge and then turn around, with your forward momentum carrying you off the ledge and then you grab the ledge as you're facing toward it.

Thanks, i was thinking it would go along the lines of something like that.

 

[Winston]

Pretty sure falco can side-b recover if they get a good di on the shineand jump asap. Should be pretty easy to react to this, since there's only one time they can do it, but you still need to watch for it.

So the tree should look like this: double shine -> did they side-b (if yes then dsmash or uptilt or shine them again or something) -> THEN jump of and shine them out of their up-b.

Point is you wait until after confirming that they didn't side-b before going off.

Alternatively, you could probably jump off and nair/bair or in such a way that it intercepts the side-b, while still leaving time to shine the up-b.

I actually think you're dead wrong. Find me a video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGL40YkkWL4#t=0m47s

 

[Lovage]

that vid isn't the situation they're talking about

personally it's tough to call

sometimes it feels like they can't, but i really cant say for sure

honestly doesn't feel that important, what kinda falco lets u shieldgrab them on the ledge in 2012 wtf

 

[Tero.]

yes it's totally possible to side b to the edge (and even on stage) after getting uthrow doubleshined

 

[omgwtfToph]

honestly doesn't feel that important, what kinda falco lets u shieldgrab them on the ledge in 2012 wtf

I wasn't talking specifically about uthrow doubleshine, there are a lot more ways than that to set up a doubleshine by the ledge lol

 

[(*Jman*)]

You very rarely did 'wrong' plays with Fox when you played. Your matches are usually a good reference if you want a quality option in a simple situation that will usually work out pretty well.

Yea that was what aways was the biggest thing to me do what works and not what looks cool

@bones0 he can prolly teach me more then I can teach u about the new meta game

 

[Bones0]

"He" meaning me teach you? I doubt it. lol I am probably around 2007 metagame. I just have 2015 tech skill which covers it up until I get exposed in first round pools.

 

[Strong Badam]

Bones *****

Dunno how good he is at Melee, but he *****.

 

[Bones0]

No means yes.

Right, Strong Bad?

 

[Winston]

"He" meaning me teach you? I doubt it. lol I am probably around 2007 metagame. I just have 2015 tech skill which covers it up until I get exposed in first round pools.

I read it as "he" meaning kirbykaze.

 

[KirbyKaze]

lol I am probably around 2007 metagame.

Don't flatter yourself.

 

[Engo]

Just remembered another set of mine is up on youtube from the same tourney. Once again any advice and critique is greatly appreciated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbqMJtDLg7g

 

[KirbyKaze]

Your conversions are really weak.

Come to my house and I'll fix this.

 

[Engo]

Conversions as in converting a hit into a combo/punish? If so I agree. If it means something else then umm I probably agree as well

 

[KirbyKaze]

Converting a hit into a bigger amount of damage - usually by comboing but not necessarily.

 

[Bones0]

Don't flatter yourself.

But... everyone looks so slow back then.

 

[KirbyKaze]

You can be fast and still be dd grabbed

 

[Bones0]

I play vs. Marth 99% of the time. I don't get DD grabbed.

 

[PK Webb]

ummmm bones im sure its possible for u to get dd grabbed. ur probably just better then the marth u play

 

[Bones0]

Nope, it never happens.

Spoiler

Obviously I get DD grabbed sometimes, but it's an aspect of my game I do not consider a major weakness. I don't remember many of my tournament sets ending with "damn it, I just kept getting DD grabbed."

 

[Divinokage]

That's because it's Melee, lots of **** happens.

 

[unknown522]

Omg kage, that combo you did to vudujin game 3!!

 

[Divinokage]

Fear DI, ftw.

 

[Bones0]

Combo on Luigi? This I gotta see.

 

[Aefice]

hey, at what % can we shine out of marth's cg?

 

[Winston]

^ I don't think anyone actually knows exactly just based on anecdotal evidence, since it depends on both your execution and the Marth's execution. It'd be cool if somebody figured it out with AR

 

[ninjapenguin]

I was watching Melee on stream during Zenith 2012? i think it was. A fox player was getting ready to play and the commentators were talking about how technical he was. During the match, he did something and everyone starting losing it and cheering for him. They said he did a "triple shine," and that it was incredibly difficult to even do a "double shine." So it was a big deal. What were they talking about? I play brawl but I am very curious about this.