Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Wenbobular]

I've never had that happen to me ...... <_<
How are they CCing that hard if they missed a tech

 

[KirbyKaze]

Bair > more bair is underrated as a platform punish. So is waveland > stuff.

 

[weon - X]

fox is at best mid tier

 

[Cyrain]

good thing cyrain stopped posting here so he wont see me post this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i9I_x7vzw8

Yooouuuu sonofa*****

 

[unknown522]

Knew that was Gonna happen

 

[Lovage]

uair and waveland grab are the 2 big-damage platform tech chasers

bair is by far the easiest and most consistent. at mid-high percent, if you land one you will almost always land a nair after which puts them offstage.

bair is easy as ****, pretty much impossible to mess it up on a platform tech chase

uair actually takes some timing and reaction, but it has really good payoff if you land one before like 40%.

@ wenobular don't use drill lol that's a waste of ur tech chase

 

[Wenbobular]

I never drill <_< haha someone wanted to know the merits of drill vs uair
Maybe I should've just said it was bad and ended it at that

 

[PGH Carroll]

when fox catches a turnip are there anyways to guarantee a turnip hit on peach?

like a TRUE combo?

 

[Warhawk]

I like drill when they get hit up near a platform but before they actually hit the platform to create a platform chase but that's just cause it looks cool lol

 

[Anand]

when fox catches a turnip are there anyways to guarantee a turnip hit on peach?

like a TRUE combo?

Well, the only things you can hit Peach with other than the turnip are Firefox, Illusion, and Shine, to the best of my knowledge.

So you could try to fish for shine > jump cancel > turnip throw, if that works (or waveshine > turnip throw, but that's less likely to work, probably). Or you could throw the turnip up and try to hit Peach into it...

I haven't tested this at all, but maybe you can throw a stitchface at Peach from a short distance, then do a running shinegrab. If the stitchface has enough shieldstun, their only options are catching it, dodging it, or shielding it, all of which lead to you grabbing. If they shielded it, maybe it'd bounce off at an angle such that you can throw them into it! (Would it still have a super strong stitchface hitbox? I know Z-dropping stitchfaces doesn't do extra damage, for example.) Anyway, that is a super theory bros tactic for sure.

Stitchfaces lock people in shield for some ridiculously long time; I think the hitlag and shieldstun add up to more than 30 frames, and because they are a projectile, you don't experience hitlag.


I don't think there are any viable guaranteed combos. I'd just try laser/dd camping to bait out something punishable, but that's not quite what you're asking.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

stichface -> usmash -> shieldbreak

tru comb

 

[omgwtfToph]

Drilling an opponent on a platform is good as an actual techchase (i.e. you can hit their tech with the drill and combo into grab). It's less good vs. missed tech when you're fighting decent players because of SDI.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I won this game on haley today

my fox his marth on yoshis; hes up 2 stocks to 1, mid percent. He grabs me and starts flailing his sword, i grab edge and roll, he dies. Randall comes out on the left side and I decide to start the stock on Randall instead of from the edge. Haley expects me to ride it out and goes for a fair; instead I fullhop, double jump dair, landing on randall just before he goes into the wall, hitting haley and shining him to his doom at 11%.

 

[unknown522]

when fox catches a turnip are there anyways to guarantee a turnip hit on peach?

like a TRUE combo?

shine -> turnip? Recovery move -> turnip?

Aside from that you have to throw it oos and punish something, or hit while they're committed to something

 

[Engo]

http://www.twitch.tv/jethrotex/b/329088831
1:41:34
Hi i'm a noob fox
Would anyone mind critiquing this set? I finally got a match recorded and I always see people getting great feedback here and I would really appreciate some. Sorry I can't time stamp.

Feedback on not only the matchup but my fox in general would be really appreciated.

Still looking for some feedback on my match if anyones got time.

 

[Van.]

Still looking for some feedback on my match if anyones got time.

I watched the first two matches. Take this advice with a grain of salt because I'm not good by any means

-- full hop less (at least vs. Marth)

-- Use the marth killer technique for edgeguards when he can't DJ to hit you. Could have really swung the momentum of this match in my opinion.

-- You could benefit from a little more tech skill work. You hit 1/3 capitalizations on waveshines vs. Marth, which isn't great or super awful. There are several good foxes who only capitalize this often or less, but its a simple way to improve your results if thats what you're looking for.

Hope this helped a bit

 

[knightpraetor]

random question: I remember that CC is actually two parts crouch and cancelling with ASDI. why does Crouch help reduce knockback? is it just a calculation by the game? but anyway that part requires you to be in an actual crouch right? so if i tried to CC right after the tech animation before it finishes the most I get is the cancel effect of ASDI right?

 

[trickerL]

so, when you uthrow > double shine a spacey at the ledge and get them off stage, how do you follow up for a guaranteed edgeguard? (I'm using PAL fox, so the firefox is a bit shorter)

 

[PGH Carroll]

stichface -> usmash -> shieldbreak

tru comb

You've got to be fisting me.

Tell me that's a real thing.

 

[PK Webb]

so, when you uthrow > double shine a spacey at the ledge and get them off stage, how do you follow up for a guaranteed edgeguard? (I'm using PAL fox, so the firefox is a bit shorter)

Lol at the word guaranteed....best bet it to grab ledge and use the invincibility to get a shine spike or when they firefox back up drill them down wavedash back to the ledge and shine spike

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

so, when you uthrow > double shine a spacey at the ledge and get them off stage, how do you follow up for a guaranteed edgeguard? (I'm using PAL fox, so the firefox is a bit shorter)

grab edge, shine->bair. Repeat until death.

 

[trickerL]

Had the feeling there was a guaranteed follow-up. Thanks

 

[Deleted member]

double shine --> wavedash off --> fast fall double jump b-air --> falling shine

 

[KirbyKaze]

Just bair/dair them somehow and then shine them offstage. I like ledgehop bair > jump off shine a la Jman but honestly a zillion things work. You just have to pick an appropriate one that covers a lot and do it properly.

If you're ballsy you can also rambo them with nair > shine or just shine offstage.

 

[Winston]

Remember to cover the illusion as well though in case your opponent is Mango

 

[crush]

falco can side b to the ledge from doubleshine
if either spacey is up b-ing udner the stage u can just go down there an shine them

 

[Bones0]

Still looking for some feedback on my match if anyones got time.

[COLLAPSE=Match 1 - Battlefield]1:41:27 - Bad starting spawn. Either pick port 1 for BF, or request neutral starts.

1:41:50 - Lasers are really bad in this matchup. Marth isn't slow enough that you'll be able to land many. You should have had that followup after the shine, but at the very least he was trapped at the ledge. Instead of going in and exerting your pressure, you ran away and landed a couple inconsequential lasers.

1:42:00 - I don't think those lasers were really worth it either. I would prefer staying underneath the platforms to keep Marth on top where has very few options. It wouldn't have been hard at all to just bair him off stage for an edgeguard as he comes down. It's way better than 7-8% considering you're almost guaranteed to get double that plus stage positioning.

1:42:15 - You should have firestalled and then shine-baired as he up-B'd. Immediately after you again just run away when he's cornered at the ledge, giving up your stage control and pressure.

1:42:28 - Use regular getup to avoid early up-Bs like that. It lets you get back on the ledge faster than from a roll.

1:42:55 - You can't miss easy waveshine followups like that. Make sure you practice waveshining slippery characters as fast as possible. It's something you can practice on your own, so there's really no excuse.

1:43:00 - Most Marths will destroy you for FHing aerials like that, but if you're going to do it, do a drillshine with a followup instead of a bair which can't really be worked off of.

1:43:38 - Idk if that was a tech error because you could have just LH baired and killed him.

1:43:55 - If you had spaced the up-B stall, you probably would have grabbed it instead of going on stage.

1:44:05 - There was no reason to go onto the top platform. Stay low and keep Marth fighting to get off of those plats.

1:44:20 - Another missed shine followup.

1:44:30 - Don't drop down onto Marth from that high. It's way too easy for him to react with a shield grab, pivot grab, WD back, utilt, etc.

1:44:40 - Never jab Marth when he's facing you. It has almost no uses when it lands, and you will get grabbed way too often for it to be worth even attempting.

1:45:00 - Nooooo! Don't panic DI in because it's last stock. lol[/COLLAPSE]
[COLLAPSE=Match 2 - Dream Land]1:45:25 - DIing on top of Marth is good, but mixing in full DIs to either side can help make him mess up when he has to react to the DI on top of him for the pivot grab. If he's just looking for the pivot grab every time, it's a lot easier for him. You also could have full DI'd left because you were at that distance where it would be hard for him to tell if you were going to land on the plat and techroll or go just short and need to be regrabbed.

1:46:38 - You can't let Marth get off the ledge that easily. His ledge options are pretty weak, so make sure you abuse that as much as possible to force edgeguards at mid %s where you can get easy shine spikes or edgehogs.

1:46:43 - When you cross up his shield like that, shining is fairly pointless. You won't get the followup because you can't hitconfirm it, and it isn't protecting you from shield grab because he's facing the other way. Marths like to WD OoS after that shine a lot, so you can often just SHFFL nair past them then immediately dash back towards them to catch what they do.

1:48:30 - Try to manage your invinc better on his recovery so you don't have to worry about him smacking you. Again, if you do find yourself trying to avoid a DJ attack or early up-B, just ledgestand and then WD right back on during his lag.

1:48:45 - Why did you jump on that side plat? You used both of your jumps and put yourself in a bad position when he wasn't even near you. If you feel pressured for some reason and you already shielded, WDing OoS is usually the safest thing because you can reshield, move, or attack quickly after it, and it keeps you on the ground.

1:49:00 - You randomly DJ again and he just reacted as you fell back down. Sticking to the ground vs. Marth can feel uncomfortable because he has so many tools that can reach out to you (fsmash, dtilt, ftilt, dash attack, fair), but you have to learn to either keep pressure on him so he can't get those attacks out, or space yourself so using those moves is extremely risky for him by being far enough that your dash away avoids them, but close enough that you can punish their lag.

1:49:10 - You started this nair way too far away from him. Make sure you overshoot your aerials when he has room to move back so that you will hit him even if he tries to pivot grab. If all he is doing is running away when you approach, then you can try mixing in running shines so you can watch where he goes and shine on reaction.[/COLLAPSE]

General stuff:

You seemed to be spacing all wrong for Marth (which is pretty normal, honestly). Lasers in particular were hurting you. Not only are they just not worth using, but in order to use them you were giving up huge amounts of stage, and it also kept you in the mindset of trying to run away constantly. There were many parts of the match (like the very end of game 2) where he was just swinging his sword around while you ran away instead of attacking back. Obviously you can't just rush into a flurry of sword, but any type of pressure Marth uses has fairly large holes that you can rush in against. If you focus more on your ground game and become more comfortable with shielding fsmash/fair on reaction, you will be able to do less jumping around, and you won't get caught by so much random sword stuff. WDing OoS in particular would help you a lot.

Next time you play vs. Marth, just try to stay on top of him more. You have a solid approach game from far away, which you definitely need vs. Marth, but you were making yourself approach over and over again instead of just sticking to him once you got that approach. This applies in particular to when he was at the ledge. Gimps are scary, but you seemed good enough at SHFFLing into shines that there's really nothing to be afraid of. Once you get ledge pressure started you will be able to capitalize on a bunch of bad rolls/spotdodges/jumps, and you can get a good number of shine spikes to end stocks super early.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Heartbreaking moment: Haley pulls a stitchface and takes a stock with it. Next stock he hits me twice before I catch on to his attack strategy; I call the stitch throw and shine, only for the turnip to vaporize halfway between us.

 

[Bones0]

He did it intentionally to bait the shine.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Its possible. Haley is a **** that likes toying with my emotions

 

[Bones0]

What happens if you boost grab with a turnip (if that's even possible)?

 

[Strong Badam]

the dash attack input would make you do a dash throw. and you can't grab out of that.

 

[Bones0]

Figured. Thanks.

 

[Zoler]

Waveland on platforms is such a **** punish, started using it a lot recently, especially against falcon.

Most falcons will just try to shield, and then jump when they see you on the platform (which grab beats). Also his spotdodge sucks.

After doing this a few times, the smart thing to do would be like tech in place right? Easy uair punish.

Falcon could probably shield and then roll when you try to grab, not sure if you have enough time to grab him again then, probably not.

 

[(*Jman*)]

Just bair/dair them somehow and then shine them offstage. I like ledgehop bair > jump off shine a la Jman but honestly a zillion things work. You just have to pick an appropriate one that covers a lot and do it properly.

If you're ballsy you can also rambo them with nair > shine or just shine offstage.

<3 yep that works everytime u know what it is lol

 

[Bones0]

Jman, you unretire yet? I need a coach. :D

 

[KirbyKaze]

<3 yep that works everytime u know what it is lol

You very rarely did 'wrong' plays with Fox when you played. Your matches are usually a good reference if you want a quality option in a simple situation that will usually work out pretty well.

 

[omgwtfToph]

If you ever land a doubleshine on Falco by the ledge, you can be confident that he'll have to up-B and therefore you should immediately go out there and shine him (because unlike Fox you don't have to worry about his up-B flames burning you).

In general as soon as you know Falco is going to be below the ledge, you should immediately go out there and shine spike.

Fox sometimes requires a little more finesse.

 

[EWC]

Pretty sure falco can side-b recover if they get a good di on the shineand jump asap. Should be pretty easy to react to this, since there's only one time they can do it, but you still need to watch for it.

So the tree should look like this: double shine -> did they side-b (if yes then dsmash or uptilt or shine them again or something) -> THEN jump of and shine them out of their up-b.

Point is you wait until after confirming that they didn't side-b before going off.

Alternatively, you could probably jump off and nair/bair or in such a way that it intercepts the side-b, while still leaving time to shine the up-b.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

to be stylish:

double shine->wavedash back grab edge.

Did they sideb? roll. If not, scar jump shine spike.