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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

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The best way to play against marth is to stay close but outside his range and punish him for attempting to take space. Normally bair is fox's go-to-move, but i like nair and dair in this match-up. Moving towards marth recklessly is bad, so generally you just have to hold your ground and look for openings and always be ready to stuff approaches
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

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You'll get 4 stocked much faster if you run at the marth than if you make the marth try to catch you.


the only way to get 4 stocked faster is to just jump off the stage
 
Bing

Bing

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lolol.

I do really like dair aswell, sets up Drillshines to waveshine off stage for the easy spike.

But thank you for the note on how to play against Marth more effectively, its not my best matchup(lol 1-1 in tournament)
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

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dash jump (is there a proper term for this?) dairs are the ones that are easy to SDI, so if you them in place its not as punishable on hit.
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

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Well first the terminology: Dash jump can be seen when you play as falcon or pikachu, dash and the SH and you go much farther than regular sh, right? ok.

When fox does a dash jump shffl dair, the intention is to hit with the first and the last hit. If only the early hits land, fox will get punished. If he attempts to land only the late hits it doesn't break CC and there is a better chance that it can be beat by the opponent's attack. Because of this, there is a tendency to have the first hit be in front of the opponent and the last hit behind the opponent, even with a perfect fast fall. There is the possibility, then, for the opponent to SDI the dair in either direction to escape.


Fox doing a dair in place has no horizontal movement of his own so there is less to compensate for, and if it is used defensively the opponent won't be SDIing the opposite way they were attacking. I guess they could, but i've never seen anyone dash attack forward while option selecting SDI backwards in case fox drilled in place. In the fox vs marth matchup, I use drill at the edge of marth's range to stuff grab/dash attack/dtilt approaches. Nair can also be used (and is better vs grab because of range) but it is much more vulnerable to CC.



Wow i posted a lot... hopefully some of that made sense... back to hw xD
 
Bing

Bing

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Wouldnt a potential late dair work just as well as what you said? I mean like you said, if only the early hits land, they can sdi out. But if you hold up just a second, then it would only be mid-late hits leaving the opponent less opportunity to sdi out
 
Lovage

Lovage

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i agree that fox's dair is usually a bad choice if you're just approaching horizontally (nair just way better in that spot) but that's because the hitbox sux not because people are gonna SDI through you and make the move punishable on hit lol. that's about the last reason a dair is bad to approach with, pretty inconsequential considering it barely ever happens like you imagine it does.
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

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Not so much on approach, i suppose. I was having a hard time wording my thoughts, hence the longwindedness... People SDIing out of my forwarding moving dairs as opposed to my in place dairs is something I have noticed quite a bit. For example, some peach players just SDI towards me and dsmash me before I hit the ground. If I did this in place, they would be running into it themselves or would not be able to SDI past me like that and thus it wouldn't work.


Idk, dair is a pretty bad move, but i think its hitbox is pretty usable
 
Lovage

Lovage

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dair owns, there's tons of ways to use it, it combos into everything, and if you don't live in Northern IL or play armada on a consistent basis people are barely gonna effectively SDI out of it

honestly it might be a technique issue, because this almost never happens to me on dairs, in fact it happens LESS if i have forward momentum because people usually SDI out of your dairs not into them. the only time the dair hitbox is really suceptible to SDI is when you do a big ledgehop dair that's slow as ****, esp. vs tall characters, they will SDI out very easy.
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

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Hahaha yeah its not an lcancel. There are 9 frames of landing lag when you lcancel and the drill doesn't stun for very long and kels is a ***** like that
 
PK Webb

PK Webb

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im starting to techchase with dair because im tired of gettin ****ed up by using it as a approach
 
unknown522

unknown522

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Damnit. If only I were on a comp to clarify this discussion about d-air.

I guess it'll have to wait.

For now, I'll just say that it's a great move but a very inconsistent one

:phone:
 
unknown522

unknown522

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PK Webb

PK Webb

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ur not using nair at all and when u do grab im ur punishes r kinda weak...also where r the waveshine grabs??? and where r the up smashes??? and drill grabs????? also when marth goes airborn wait for him to hit the floor then counter attack.....its not really u approaching him but u baitin a approach from him
 
F A N G

F A N G

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What can I do to Marth out of shine and how do I do it?

To grab, it is: shine > wavedash > (dash) JC grab? or two wavedashes or what?
 
Zone

Zone

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PK Webb said:
ur not using nair at all and when u do grab im ur punishes r kinda weak...also where r the waveshine grabs??? and where r the up smashes??? and drill grabs????? also when marth goes airborn wait for him to hit the floor then counter attack.....its not really u approaching him but u baitin a approach from him
Click to expand...
Everytime I nair'd He grabbed me with a dash away come back in Grab.


so I naturally stopped feeling safe just throwing them out.

I don't know when to use it.


I spam the hell out of nair against people equal skill or worse than me. But against him I pretty much DIE everytime I nair.
 
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