Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[iamthemicrowave]

I watched those vids of KDJ yesterday.

I think he could get good pretty fast if he keeps playing.

totally agree. he has a very unique style, which is a huge win in my book. im sure he was discouraged by his ROM 1 placing, but i think he should go to a national again.

 

[Divinokage]

RoM 1.. wasn't that like 3 years ago? How can someone dwell on something like that for that long? There's no way..

 

[Wenbobular]

How do you get discouraged by placing 9th at a huge tournament right after coming out of retirement ... <_<

*Edit*
Maybe it wasn't huge
whatever

 

[KAOSTAR]

because 7 8 9?

 

[unknown522]

It's not supposed to go above 18. 18 is the highest amount you can influence your trajectory by. t - t0 is trajectory - your DI
For example, let's say you're DIing a move that sends straight up (90) to the right (0).
I'll use a more accurate formula that uses absolute value bars in the sin² argument and takes into account that a 45 degree angle input is 0.707, not 1.
the cos(t0) changes to sin(t0) in cases where the input angle is between 45 and 90. (or any comparable angle on the unit circle)
18cos(t0)sin²(|t-t0|)
18cos(t0)sin²(|original trajectory - trajectory DI|)
18cos(0)sin²(|90-0|)
18*1*1
18 is the resulting difference from the original trajectory. Your new trajectory is 90-18 = 72

Or Falco's dair, where you DI at 20 degrees.
18cos(t0)sin²(|290-380|)
18cos(380)sin²(|-90|)
18cos(20)sin²(90)
18*0.93969262078590838405410927732473*1
~16.91
~17
290 + 17 = 307

Some other things come into play with DI though, like the fact that the place where the control stick is isn't perfectly circular. Sometimes, going into one of the notches even though it's not perpendicular is better because you have more absolute distance from original trajectory that way.

Toph: falcon's knee is indeed 32, and Sheik's fair is 25. Falco's dsmash is 25, his Dair is 290, Doc's bair is 28, Falco's shine is 84, Fox's shine is 0.
Link's ending hitboxes on his Up-B are 0, Pika's tail spike is 0. Anything else anyone want to know?

It's important to realize that forward is considered 0.

YES! I ****ing love math!


also, we had to make space on my friend's laptop (Riddlebox), so I uploaded these matches so that he could delete them off of his hard drive:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnI5pvOMo4o

 

[chillindude829]

i 2 stocked m2ks marth at zenith then his sheik beat me twice

discuss

 

[Palpi]

Personal match ups are a *****?

Oh, and again chillin, I tried that nair on shield to full hop ff uair and it worked

 

[chillindude829]

oh yea, def works, i know raynex was saying you have frame disadvantage in that situation but i rarely get punished for any aerial on shield to full hop falling uair

u got like 40+ damage off the ensuing combo right?? rofl, so good

 

[Palpi]

Yeah, I did 3 uairs in a row and said "OMG it works!"

 

[Fernandez]

It's not supposed to go above 18. 18 is the highest amount you can influence your trajectory by. t - t0 is trajectory - your DI
For example, let's say you're DIing a move that sends straight up (90) to the right (0).
I'll use a more accurate formula that uses absolute value bars in the sin² argument and takes into account that a 45 degree angle input is 0.707, not 1.
the cos(t0) changes to sin(t0) in cases where the input angle is between 45 and 90. (or any comparable angle on the unit circle)
18cos(t0)sin²(|t-t0|)
18cos(t0)sin²(|original trajectory - trajectory DI|)
18cos(0)sin²(|90-0|)
18*1*1
18 is the resulting difference from the original trajectory. Your new trajectory is 90-18 = 72

Or Falco's dair, where you DI at 20 degrees.
18cos(t0)sin²(|290-380|)
18cos(380)sin²(|-90|)
18cos(20)sin²(90)
18*0.93969262078590838405410927732473*1
~16.91
~17
290 + 17 = 307

Some other things come into play with DI though, like the fact that the place where the control stick is isn't perfectly circular. Sometimes, going into one of the notches even though it's not perpendicular is better because you have more absolute distance from original trajectory that way.

Toph: falcon's knee is indeed 32, and Sheik's fair is 25. Falco's dsmash is 25, his Dair is 290, Doc's bair is 28, Falco's shine is 84, Fox's shine is 0.
Link's ending hitboxes on his Up-B are 0, Pika's tail spike is 0. Anything else anyone want to know?

It's important to realize that forward is considered 0.

What the hell are you talking about

 

[Walt]

Degree angles of moves duh. It's all right there in the "18*0.93969262078590838405410927732473*1"

 

[Sinji]

How much frames does foxes JC grab take up?

Im thinking grabbing fox after the jab during thunders combo.

Im thinking about uairing falco after the jab during thunders combo.

Btw, Happy belated Unknown.

 

[Strong Badam]

8 frames. 1 frame to enter jumpsquat, then 7 frames of grab.

Fernandez: Do you want to ask an actual question the answer to which could help you understand, or are you just trying to be funny?

 

[KAOSTAR]

grabs are 7 frames. u cancel your jump during knee bend. u will add 1 to 4 frames on your grab depending on how fast u do it.

I was told that "thunders" was nair shine jab reset to sh u air, not just a simple jab reset. but yes that works, and grab works too. low percents I like sh uair into up tilts and then some aerial combo...cg on fd vs falco.

against other characters if u get a jab reset id probably grab.

 

[Sinji]

You guys know a site where i can view all of the hitboxes of each character?

 

[KAOSTAR]

standard toaster or stratocaster has been working on hit boxes, there is a thread in about half of the character specific boards that have hit boxes. u can also find some on youtube.

 

[Strong Badam]

It isn't done yet, but Stratocaster's Hitbox System is your best bet. I have Seanson's old ones still on my computer if you have a request, though he didn't do all of them.

 

[Dark Hart]

I always knew thunders as

waveshine -> jab reset -> shuair/upsmash

 

[Lovage]

i prefer to just think of a thunders' combo as waveshine -> jab, because an experienced player will choose between uair/usmash/grab/late nair etc. depending on their percent and stage position.

 

[Sinji]

I grab after the reset on FD. reason why, i like juggling fox\falco.

 

[Dark Hart]

i prefer to just think of a thunders' combo as waveshine -> jab, because an experienced player will choose between uair/usmash/grab/late nair etc. depending on their percent and stage position.

fair enough

but, late nair?

I'd have to imagine that uair, usmash, and grab are all much better options than a late nair, being that they have guaranteed follow-ups...

how would a late nair work in that situation?

also, it is fun to chain thunders' (waveshine -> jabreset -> waveshine -> jab reset), but it's just a mix-up, not totally reliable

 

[Lovage]

lol i mostly thru late nair in there for my own ego. i think it can be a good option at lower percent right by the edge (yoshi's story comes to mind,) because it usually combos into doubleshine. and this opportunity to edge guard at a really low percent often trumps the advantage you could have gotten from grab -> uthrowing and attempting to continue your combo on the platform.

in general though, i think that thinking about combo variants like that is an important exercise in making you a more versatile and adaptable player, and this variance and creativity in movement and punishment is what makes melee so interesting to me.

 

[Winston]

Nair doubleshine all dayyyy. Definitely worth mixing in when they're by the edge if you're confident in the execution

drill utilt is also a possibility, no? Though I'm not confident enough to use it.

 

[Strong Badam]

I like to just stand there. It's very satisfying.
Jab reset -> nothing.
Like "naw ***** I didn't need to do anything else."
your opponent will be like "...what?" and start questioning himself

 

[Brookman]

hitlag makes me want to kill myself.

 

[Strong Badam]

that's the spirit, use those lasers on yoself

 

[Proskater]

Tell me things plz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgXBmZfoc2Y&feature=feedu

continued - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIofPKg4czE&feature=feedu


herp derp a lerp lerp

 

[Brookman]

suck less. ****ing noob.

 

[Divinokage]

Lol wtf you look like Hungrybox 2.

 

[Da Shuffla]

Thunders -> turnaround Utilt for style points.

 

[Palpi]

He does not look like hbox in my opinion.

 

[Metal Reeper]

NO NO NO.
Shine>waveJab>Grab. When you grab them, you don't throw them.
****.

 

[Strong Badam]

If you do that to my DK, I will grab you while you're still in your grab release animation and then combo you into death.
It will be hilarious.

 

[KAOSTAR]

lol yea dk is so broken. what kind of monster has frame advantage after getting grab released?

 

[Beat!]

Insta-top tier imo

 

[Sinji]

LOL brookman looks like Hbox from 08.

 

[unknown522]

Raynex vs IB Loser's semis from last weekend is up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lFwFdaqItU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=069glH70TXY

 

[Sinji]

I liked the first part of the set. Good stuff.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Let's do it srtrong bad <3

 

[Dark Hart]

lol i mostly thru late nair in there for my own ego. i think it can be a good option at lower percent right by the edge (yoshi's story comes to mind,) because it usually combos into doubleshine. and this opportunity to edge guard at a really low percent often trumps the advantage you could have gotten from grab -> uthrowing and attempting to continue your combo on the platform.

in general though, i think that thinking about combo variants like that is an important exercise in making you a more versatile and adaptable player, and this variance and creativity in movement and punishment is what makes melee so interesting to me.

Low risk, good reward, situational, nice

Thanks lovage, my versatile variations involve ftilts in combos lol