Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Brookman]

ya, pardon me for not remembering something clearly 6 years down the road. my bad.

(read: shove it up your ***)

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I dont expect everyone to have the same memory i do.

 

[Strong Badam]

It's only been 5 years you ****ING STUPID PIECE OF **** BROOKMAN <3

 

[Brookman]

my bad, brb, gona kill myself

 

[EWC]

I just get really annoyed at how often people conflate sdi with asdi. It's not like it's some obscure bit of trivia; It's well known and has been for a long time.

I dunno I pretty much arbitrarily decided to get mad at Brookman for it now.

NO DON'T DO IT WHAT WILL WE EVER DO WITHOUT YOU!!!!

 

[Brookman]

if people conflate sdi with asdi as frequently as you suggest (or maybe, it is not so frequently and you have the temper of a douche bag) then it is not as well known as you believe.

if I know something then it must be commonly known.

WREAKS OF FALLACY.


back to shoving it up your ***.

 

[KAOSTAR]

so my understanding of asdi was incorrect, but nothing else. gotcha

well I guess lol, but thats a very large part of your post.

just make sure that you are aware that there is only 1 asdi frame each time u get hit. its the first frame of hit stun. hit lag is when u SDI...it varies based on the move and the level of stale.

rotating the c stick will asdi in a bunch of unhelpful directions. just hold it in the direction u want to go for multi hit moves especially fox dair. left or right. rotational di is really only for sdi and the control stick.

ill pm u something that should help u understand better in case u are still confused.

 

[EWC]

There's a distinction between "well known" and "commonly known". The former refers to the collective knowledge of the community, the latter to what the individual members know. Maybe it's not a very good piece of terminology; I dunno math people use it a lot in exactly this context (ie a theorem is well known if you can find it within a few minutes of literature search) and that's where I picked it up.

The distinction (between (a)sdi) is well known in the sense that it can be learned in a couple of minutes by reading the standard "introductory material", which is widely linked to (see: the post that you made that I decided to get mad at for some reason). It's also a pretty fundamental aspect of the game's mechanics. So there's really no excuse for people to talk about that aspect of melee without knowing about it.

Also re: frequency of this misunderstanding. Uhh it comes up pretty much every time that people talk about anything that relates to this. Or maybe this is just some confirmation bias on my part? But it's definitely pretty common.

 

[Brookman]

I figured it out!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls0XHjI9fZk&feature=feedu

 

[EWC]

Yo that guy is really good. I like his "Dark World" remix.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ1qkVMnlEY

Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ1qkVMnlEY

 

[omgwtfToph]

Incidentally (or should I say... tangentially!?!?!? badum-psh), someone on smacom worked out, and posted, a bunch of mathematical formulas that give you the resulting acceleration vectors from SDI and ASDI, LOL.

 

[FoxLisk]

Incidentally (or should I say... tangentially!?!?!? badum-psh), someone on smacom worked out, and posted, a bunch of mathematical formulas that give you the resulting acceleration vectors from SDI and ASDI, LOL.

whoa link? ive always wanted to do that but never bothered. esp. since i would have wanted to do it with AR or at least an emu and never got either of those things.

 

[Cry1]

Sometimes when practicing with Fox I accidentally dash or walk off of the ledge and don't attempt anything special but somehow end up grabbing the ledge, no shine or anything just ledgehog. I've tried replicating it but I can't seem to figure it out, any advice? I'm always looking for ways to ledgehog up b spamming sheiks >:D

 

[PK Webb]

does any1 have advice for laser camp happy falcos on fd?

 

[FoxLisk]

Sometimes when practicing with Fox I accidentally dash or walk off of the ledge and don't attempt anything special but somehow end up grabbing the ledge, no shine or anything just ledgehog. I've tried replicating it but I can't seem to figure it out, any advice? I'm always looking for ways to ledgehog up b spamming sheiks >:D

prolly PC ledgehogging. try doing the fastest walk possible (before its a dash) (like by holding all the way left or right while in some other lag), and then right before you get to the ledge, turn around. try it with like marth first cause it's more obvious what's going on.

 

[EWC]

You're doing one of two things, both pretty similar.

If it happens when you're walking, then it is what's called the "PC edgehog". Basically, when you turn around during your walk animation, and you keep your momentum in the original direction, so you slide backwards a bit. If you do this right near the ledge, then you will grab it. I happens more often than usual with fox because he walks fast.

When it happens out of a dash, it's basically the same principle, except instead of the walking turnaround, it's the pivot frame of your dash dance. So here it goes like:

frame 1: dashing left
frame 2: pivot right, keep slight momentum to the left
frame 3: standing or dashing right, depending on whether you actually pivot or just dash dance.

If you are positioned close enough to the ledge, then you can sometimes slide off with the momentum left over in frame 2. This leads to a similar effect as the walking thing. Since you only keep the momentum for one frame though, this requires stupid precision to actually work. In particular, I feel safe claiming that this is too precise for a human to ever be able to do it consistently from any position (ie not with a pre-set routine).

The walking turnaround edgehog (PC hog) is pretty easy to do consistently with a little bit of practice. It's also pretty useful. A nice application of this movement trick is to go into a full run, then dash cancel, then walk forward and PC hog.

 

[omgwtfToph]

whoa link? ive always wanted to do that but never bothered. esp. since i would have wanted to do it with AR or at least an emu and never got either of those things.

Ah my bad, it was angle that he calculated, not acceleration etc. So it's simpler than I remember it being.

ベクトル変更は18*sin^2(スティックの角度-技の設定角度)°だけ変更されます。
なので技の設定角度に対して90°の方向にスティックを入れると最大の変更がかかり、本来より18°だけ方向がかわりふっとびます。
ちなみに本来の角度は膝は32°、鉈は25°です。（水平を0°として）

<Resulting angle from DI/SDI> = 18 * sin^2 ( <angle of stick> - <original flight angle from attack> )

Dude also mentions that the knee's angle (for reference) is 32 degrees, and Sheik's fair is 25 degrees.

 

[unknown522]

a little late, but thanks for the birthday greetings.

Also, we went to a local tourney on sunday (my birthday) at A&C games. It was only a 16 man bracket. The results were:

1. Raynex
2. me
3. Kirbykaze
4. IB
5. weon-x/Idea
7. Riddlebox/ballz?
9. randoms I think
13. some chick + more randoms

Almost all the big matches got recorded (aside from me vs IB in winner's semis. He got ***** game 1, game 2 wasn't really close with me winning. Game 3 was close).



camera quality version of GFs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTyQj9Wud-s

also more matches from that pittsburg tourney (feat: me, Raynex, Kirbykaze, Weon-x, The Lake, Vudujin, and others):
http://www.youtube.com/user/FreewaySSBM?feature=mhum#p/u

 

[Cyrain]

Before I go and read Brookman's disputed post about ASDI and SDI, I'd like to say that I have no idea what ASDI stands for or what it is. I'm gonna guess SDI is smash DI, but I actually am not positive.

Man, I'm so ****ing good at this game.

 

[Cyrain]

Not anymore, cause he went falco at zenith.

double post

**** YOU
=D

Just wait for Genesis baby. I'll renew your love. I promise.

 

[FoxLisk]

Ah my bad, it was angle that he calculated, not acceleration etc. So it's simpler than I remember it being.

ベクトル変更は18*sin^2(スティックの角度-技の設定角度)°だけ変更されます。
なので技の設定角度に対して90°の方向にスティックを入れると最大の変更がかかり、本来より18°だけ方向がかわりふっとびます。
ちなみに本来の角度は膝は32°、鉈は25°です。（水平を0°として）

<Resulting angle from DI/SDI> = 18 * sin^2 ( <angle of stick> - <original flight angle from attack> )

Dude also mentions that the knee's angle (for reference) is 32 degrees, and Sheik's fair is 25 degrees.

that doesn't really make sense. for example, 18sin^2(t - t0) never goes above 18. Also, it's not in degrees anymore. What exactly do you mean by "Resulting angle from DI?" Do you mean that's the most you can impact your trajectory or something?

 

[Winston]

It could make sense. I think that value is the amount that the trajectory angle is changed by. So the maximum amount you can change your trajectory by is 18 degrees if you DI perpendicular to the original angle, which is consistent with stuff Magus posted before.

Well, I remember he said it was 17 degrees, but that might be an issue of rounding...

 

[Brookman]

does any1 have advice for laser camp happy falcos on fd?

deal percent faster, camp on the edge.


literally. hang on the edge.

play like a douche bag and make them throw their controller.

or play falco yourself.

p.s. who is the player??

 

[Brookman]

naaaaaaaaah

 

[Wenbobular]

First post after Crashboards died?

 

[Sinji]

I think A is easier because it takes care of jump and smash attack. but I flick both sticks to up smash oos.



HAPPY BIRTHDAY UNKNOWN!!

Yea I was practicing it on Sunday and made a conclusion that A is easier.

I think the reason why mine is slower is because the reaction time. I was watching Jman vs Cyrain at Zenith. Cyrain would fsmash then Jman usmash oos. Its great to see Jman back in top form.

 

[omgwtfToph]

that doesn't really make sense. for example, 18sin^2(t - t0) never goes above 18. Also, it's not in degrees anymore. What exactly do you mean by "Resulting angle from DI?" Do you mean that's the most you can impact your trajectory or something?

Yeah, that. I guess I wasn't very clear, lol. In my defense I just copied what the dude said and wrote out a brief translation.

 

[Palpi]

Jman was never out of top form.

 

[PK Webb]

is there anyway to practice di alone?

 

[Brookman]

definitely not. What kind are you looking for?? like, smash DI on falco's shine or ???

 

[PK Webb]

smash di falco shine, but mostly survival di

 

[Brookman]

To maximize survivability, DI/ASDI the hit perpendicular then DI to the corner of the blast box. Smash DI vs. his shine is something you're gona have to get used to in vs. mode.

 

[unknown522]

get hit by lv 9 ganon or something

I dunno

 

[Brookman]

get a training partner to practice these random ****s with. Or, whenever you go to a fest/tournament find someone (me, for example) who you can sit down with and practice these random ****s with.

 

[Strong Badam]

that doesn't really make sense. for example, 18sin^2(t - t0) never goes above 18. Also, it's not in degrees anymore. What exactly do you mean by "Resulting angle from DI?" Do you mean that's the most you can impact your trajectory or something?

It's not supposed to go above 18. 18 is the highest amount you can influence your trajectory by. t - t0 is trajectory - your DI
For example, let's say you're DIing a move that sends straight up (90) to the right (0).
I'll use a more accurate formula that uses absolute value bars in the sin² argument and takes into account that a 45 degree angle input is 0.707, not 1.
the cos(t0) changes to sin(t0) in cases where the input angle is between 45 and 90. (or any comparable angle on the unit circle)
18cos(t0)sin²(|t-t0|)
18cos(t0)sin²(|original trajectory - trajectory DI|)
18cos(0)sin²(|90-0|)
18*1*1
18 is the resulting difference from the original trajectory. Your new trajectory is 90-18 = 72

Or Falco's dair, where you DI at 20 degrees.
18cos(t0)sin²(|290-380|)
18cos(380)sin²(|-90|)
18cos(20)sin²(90)
18*0.93969262078590838405410927732473*1
~16.91
~17
290 + 17 = 307

Some other things come into play with DI though, like the fact that the place where the control stick is isn't perfectly circular. Sometimes, going into one of the notches even though it's not perpendicular is better because you have more absolute distance from original trajectory that way.

Toph: falcon's knee is indeed 32, and Sheik's fair is 25. Falco's dsmash is 25, his Dair is 290, Doc's bair is 28, Falco's shine is 84, Fox's shine is 0.
Link's ending hitboxes on his Up-B are 0, Pika's tail spike is 0. Anything else anyone want to know?

It's important to realize that forward is considered 0.

 

[KAOSTAR]

lol there definitely aren't any notches on my controller. **** is perfectly circular.

where are the move trajectories found...within the code or did u get them from somewhere else?

 

[Strong Badam]

the character file subactions. the program that opens them isn't available publicly, but Magus has a post somewhere about how to find them with a hex editor.

 

[omgwtfToph]

I am even more impressed with you now, Strong Bad, than when I watched those videos of you carrying M2K in teams. ^__^

 

[Strong Badam]

I don't think cargo throwing him a few times means I carried him, despite the humorous implications that would have.
I did better as a team mate than I thought I would. We didn't drop a single game. Unless Jason backs out on me or something, we're supposedly teaming again on the 2nd.

EDIT: Toph: would you mind relaying some of that stuff to the guy who originally made that formula? The point about non-cardinal direction distance is kind of important.

 

[unknown522]

I watched those vids of KDJ yesterday.

I think he could get good pretty fast if he keeps playing.