Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[JPOBS]

why are you guys still up throwing falcon?? just f throw/down throw till he's at the edge then back throw. Seriously. If you get the grab why in the world would you waste it on up throw?

i can't tell ur being serious.

but mostly because fthrow/bthrow lead to jack**** at low percent, and at high percent you get a tech chase at best. upthrow has much more garunteed followups and when u hit him with nair/bairs he gets pushed to the edge/offstage anyway.

common now brookman, what was the point of a post like that

 

[Druggedfox]

^ yea but thats only vs his no di. if he DIs, upsmash doesn't have the range, and you're stuck in the throw animation too long to nair before he jumps. alternatively you can just wait for the jump and kill him on the way down.

I meant on DI left/right; Idk if its just because falcon players jump too slow that I've played but I've even asked some people to mash jump as fast as they can and at certain %s they couldn't jump out without losing their DJ... just too slow I guess though I'll keep doing it as long as people suck =P

 

[unknown522]

up throw gets your opponent above you, which lets you have positional advantage even if you do drop a combo. Whereas d-throw and f-throw are harder to react to and place a punish properly, due to fox's lack of range. F-throwing falcon with marth and tech chasing is mad gay though.

It's more funny when people think that I can't do it and then they get ***** by it.

 

[JPOBS]

I meant on DI left/right; Idk if its just because falcon players jump too slow that I've played but I've even asked some people to mash jump as fast as they can and at certain %s they couldn't jump out without losing their DJ... just too slow I guess though I'll keep doing it as long as people suck =P

oh ok. well in that case wouldn't the upsmash simply miss cuz they are in fact DI'ing?

i dunno if it works for you more power to ya

 

[unknown522]

I meant on DI left/right; Idk if its just because falcon players jump too slow that I've played but I've even asked some people to mash jump as fast as they can and at certain %s they couldn't jump out without losing their DJ... just too slow I guess though I'll keep doing it as long as people suck =P

falcon can definitely jump out of it.

 

[KirbyKaze]

falcon can jump the u-smash if he dis away.

to counter the di away, what raynex does is fj uair because he assumes they'll jump because not doing so potentially gets them u-smashed and ***** off the floor and uair will lead to combos whereas nair might not at 0. it creates a 50/50 where not jumping = u-smash ****, and jumping = uair ****. i'm not sure it's good yet because it seems risky but putting falcon above you without a jump in stun is certainly a high reward proposition.

 

[unknown522]

I did n-air every time vs hax because he always jumped, but I assumed that he'd change it up. Then I'd get a huge combo because of that. Except of that time where he magically CC grabbed me when he was in the air.....

combos were 100% his fault though.

 

[KirbyKaze]

ASDI/SDI down to get grounded from a move while low off the ground > CC grab is part of why I don't like low percent Nairs vs Falcon... him being so fat and a FFer helps him in this regard. Then again, I'm pretty sure if he just tossed out a move while DJing (Nair, namely) it might trade with the Uair if one attempted using Bernie's strategy so I'm not sure his is a good idea either.

I suppose this is where someone chimes in, "Welcome to the wonderful world of mixups!"

 

[Brookman]

i can't tell ur being serious.

but mostly because fthrow/bthrow lead to jack**** at low percent, and at high percent you get a tech chase at best. upthrow has much more garunteed followups and when u hit him with nair/bairs he gets pushed to the edge/offstage anyway.

common now brookman, what was the point of a post like that

Did we play at Rom? or was that pb&j??

 

[Druggedfox]

Yeah I figure it doesn't work, but if somebody isn't getting out of it, keep doing it =P

Ha I was playing m2k and couldn't jump out of something I was supposed to be able to, I asked about it... his reply was "I'm frame perfect, you're not" >_______>

 

[JPOBS]

Did we play at Rom? or was that pb&j??

ya we played at rom, falco dittos for a while haha

 

[KirbyKaze]

Yeah I figure it doesn't work, but if somebody isn't getting out of it, keep doing it =P

Ha I was playing m2k and couldn't jump out of something I was supposed to be able to, I asked about it... his reply was "I'm frame perfect, you're not" >_______>

Of course you keep doing it if they can't beat it. We're theorizing for if they can... Hax, for one, can probably jump the u-smash. Therefore, gayer stuff is required (sometimes).

A lot of stuff in this game is worth spending a throw or whatever to check their habits, knowledge, or similar stuff. Like the aforementioned chain grab analogy with Ice Climbers... if they personally cannot beat the beatable strategy, it can drastically change the game. Fox is not different.

 

[Brookman]

ya we played at rom, falco dittos for a while haha

So you know I don't **** around - most of the time. I doubt you've spent any time testing fox's tech chasing game, on your own, vs. competitive players.




also, wtf happened to swf???!

 

[unknown522]

they finally released the new interface to you guys.

I've had this for like 2 weeks, but it was for MBR leaders to fiddle with at that time (thought I'm not a leader anymore, but they still sent me one for some reason).

 

[Druggedfox]

Loool but does hax actually know how to jump out of it? /troll

Its just cuz he made that one thread asking about something like SDI'ing sheiks jab reset despite being like the best falcon at the matchup >_>

 

[JPOBS]

So you know I don't **** around - most of the time. I doubt you've spent any time testing fox's tech chasing game, on your own, vs. competitive players.

upthrow 4 lyphe *****

 

[Brookman]

that's WHY he's the best falcon at that match up.
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[KirbyKaze]

Loool but does hax actually know how to jump out of it? /troll

Its just cuz he made that one thread asking about something like SDI'ing sheiks jab reset despite being like the best falcon at the matchup >_>

Hax is just a name with some plausibility to knowing the counter strategy. If I said "SS" or "Mango" would you feel better? Or are you going to try to find something to make a troll post with that adds nothing to anything again?

 

[Druggedfox]

^Says one of smashboards biggest trolls who posts randomly about nothing useful far more often than I do? Great.

Not to mention, the point wasn't whether you know about the strategy or not; rather, the point was being able to perform something consistently. I made my point earlier with the m2k thing simply to say that unless they're doing something perfectly, you have room to outperform them timing wise and make things work. Its not even a matter of if they know they can jump out of it, but if your timing is better than theirs.

More on topic: How does the falcon/fox matchup look in practice nowadays anyway? Hax beat Jman at the last tournament, s2j seems to do trade with lucky/lovage, etc.

 

[Brookman]

They're doing it wrong.

 

[Lovage]

god u guys are homos


LOL

 

[MacD]

AND LOVAGE WOULD KNOW!!!!!!!!

Spoiler

why am i still subbed to this thread?

 

[unknown522]

IMO, fox v falcon is 6-4.

Maybe 65-35

 

[FoxLisk]

Not to mention, the point wasn't whether you know about the strategy or not; rather, the point was being able to perform something consistently. I made my point earlier with the m2k thing simply to say that unless they're doing something perfectly, you have room to outperform them timing wise and make things work. Its not even a matter of if they know they can jump out of it, but if your timing is better than theirs.

dude druggedfox. it's not timing. if you hit jump during hitstun, you jump out of hitstun on the first available frame. your percent window either actually does exist, or your opponents are ****ing up the DI. they can't be jumping too slow if they're trying to jump.


and you and kk play nice. this is a good thread, and youre both usually helpful, so dont mess it up.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Not to mention, the point wasn't whether you know about the strategy or not; rather, the point was being able to perform something consistently. I made my point earlier with the m2k thing simply to say that unless they're doing something perfectly, you have room to outperform them timing wise and make things work. Its not even a matter of if they know they can jump out of it, but if your timing is better than theirs.

Fair enough. I think it's probably worth spending a grab to see if they can do it. But I don't think the timing for jumping Fox's u-throw is particularly hard and if they do it to avoid CGs at low, low percents (which a lot of them do), it's probably not that much faster of a timing.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

What character's can I do true waveshine's(Can't DI out of it) to across the stage?

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

expecting a tech in place covers no tech. Lrn2rctbttr I do agree that not teching is usually the best option.

When I play vs. falcon's I will alwasys miss my first tech. It immediately ****s with them. Unless they're that good ;]

POSTCOUNT

i'm surprised how high up i am in the post count. also i would think guessing any of the tech options also covers no tech, since you'll have time to react to anything as long as they miss the tech

this is really well written and hilarious:


http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/18/t1629965-in-depth-analysis-of-rebecca-blacks-friday/

it'd be a little better if rebecca herself didn't already spoof it :/

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/6c...take-w-rebecca-black?playlist=featured_videos

 

[Strong Badam]

dude druggedfox. it's not timing. if you hit jump during hitstun, you jump out of hitstun on the first available frame. your percent window either actually does exist, or your opponents are ****ing up the DI. they can't be jumping too slow if they're trying to jump.

Wrong. There's only a 3 frame buffer for jumping out of hitstun. Most people press the jump button repeatedly though so that's why they can usually get it on the first frame.

What character's can I do true waveshine's(Can't DI out of it) to across the stage?

Link, Falcon, Peach, Sheik (SDI away is hard to get but you can follow it), Zelda, Ganondorf, Samus, Donkey Kong, and Bowser.

 

[Divinokage]

What?? It's not garanteed on Ganon that's for sure. You can either CC shine and control the DI where you want the shine to send you.

 

[Strong Badam]

Lol we're not assuming Crouch Cancel at all, else I'd include like Falco or some ****.
EDIT: Though Ganon does have less traction than Sheik. Perhaps SDI would work.

 

[Evoke]

this new skin is ridiculous. glow glow glow
I had no clue DK could be truly waveshined. :/

 

[Divinokage]

Lol we're not assuming Crouch Cancel at all, else I'd include like Falco or some ****.
EDIT: Though Ganon does have less traction than Sheik. Perhaps SDI would work.

SDI works too.

 

[FoxLisk]

Wrong. There's only a 3 frame buffer for jumping out of hitstun. Most people press the jump button repeatedly though so that's why they can usually get it on the first frame.

wrong

get magus'd

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9111240&postcount=85

 

[Sinji]

I notice that m2k nair>shines peach midair then waits. Why is this so? Any advice?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JVua9I5ZLM&t=0m12s

 

[SSBM_or_GTFO]

I notice that m2k nair>shines peach midair then waits. Why is this so? Any advice?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JVua9I5ZLM&t=0m12s

I may not be a well known smasher but it's obvious to me that M2K did that to avoid the Dsmash, or whatever attack could have been thrown out.

 

[JPOBS]

I notice that m2k nair>shines peach midair then waits. Why is this so? Any advice?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JVua9I5ZLM&t=0m12s

when you shine the opponent in midair they have no stun upon landing and can do anything. M2k waited to avoid bing punished.

its a pretty common tactic

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

when you shine the opponent in midair they have no stun upon landing and can do anything. M2k waited to avoid bing punished.

its a pretty common tactic

lol, the commentary says why as it happens sinji

 

[Brookman]

Good post , sinji. That match makes me laff. I remember when m2k was unstoppable as fox.

 

[RaynEX]

and you and kk play nice. this is a good thread, and youre both usually helpful, so dont mess it up.

Damn, you beat me to it.

I notice that m2k nair>shines peach midair then waits. Why is this so? Any advice?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JVua9I5ZLM&t=0m12s

Advice

When Peach floats, the time is right to start up the nair train. She can no longer CC, and magical, extended combos become possible. It is one of the only opportunities you have in the match-up to use nair effectively, and in this particular example M2k didn't.

Things YOU can do when you land a nair on an airborne Peach (or any mid-weight / floaty) at lower percents:

-Nair -> utilt (You have to be close to their body after the nair)
-Nair -> turnaround utilt
-Nair -> dtilt
-Nair -> usmash
-Nair -> Nair

Literally every one of these options were available to M2k, except the first one because of his distance from Peach. All would likely lead to 1 or more hits depending on your move selection. This is one of those rare cases where we can point and say, "M2k did it wrong."

What?? It's not garanteed on Ganon that's for sure. You can either CC shine and control the DI where you want the shine to send you.

If the Fox can perform full length waveshines and follow d.i. accordingly...lol

But I can understand why you wouldn't have experienced that, people tend to be sloppy when it comes to using longer waveshines. I think it has to do with the fact that you can do half-*** waveshines, walk slightly, and continue along your merry way. Poor Ganon.

 

[Divinokage]

Doing more than x2 shines on Ganon is too risky.. Just go for shine waveland downsmash or upsmash or grab.