Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Tomacawk]

I can jc shine way more often than I can pivot shine
I'm really good at pivots, too. I pivot bair pretty often. But pivot shine is a difficult input because of the speed and accuracy required
jc shines you can just ****ing slam your thumb from Y to B and make it happen

if you want to pivot your shines instead of jc them, by all means, do it
but for me it's harder to space a pivot shine and harder to execute
I believe pivot shines are slightly faster because of the 1-3 frame jump cancel

 

[FoxLisk]

i think pivot fsmash ***** and needs to be used more. whenever you're DDing to bait a roll/spot dodge, if you could just pivot fsmash the spot dodge youd **** everyone

 

[Brookman]

...Jump Cancel Shine requires FASTER input - by a single frame. A gift in speed [sort of] and a curse in consistency..(also sort of)

...Backside of the shine has SLIGHTLY [dealing with the shine here] more range.

...What happens when you make an error inputting a Jump Cancel Shine?
... ... ... I'm sure you can think of a few things.

...What happens when you mess up a Pivot Shine?
... ... ... forward b at worst I guess. You?



So, when you guys are up against a player who can't get out of your drill combos . . . just how good are your drill combos?

I can jc shine way more often than I can pivot shine
I'm really good at pivots, too. I pivot bair pretty often. But pivot shine is a difficult input because of the speed and accuracy required
jc shines you can just ****ing slam your thumb from Y to B and make it happen

if you want to pivot your shines instead of jc them, by all means, do it
but for me it's harder to space a pivot shine and harder to execute
I believe pivot shines are slightly faster because of the 1-3 frame jump cancel

Turning is four frames. Meaning shine is on the 5th.
Out of the jump shine comes out 4th.

Ideally, of Course.


Except, when you JC shine, when you mess up you are sort of stuck mid-air and are forced to double jump (although, not necessarily + platforms). On the other hand, if you make a mistake trying to pivot (given the minor potential to sideB) If you miss the 5th frame input on the shine you are now DASHING AWAY. HMMM



I think the drill shine question is relavent. Also, Haven't been out to a tournament since that MM from a few months back but what is everyone doing for shield pressure these days?

What is everyone doing for neutral pressure?

 

[Kanelol]

hate to interrupt

but does anyone know the name of that combo video dark was in

not perfect dark

he did it with like 2 other Chilean dudes and it was like 20 minutes long and reminded me a lot of baxopopate

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

it's like dark + roche + zhuV = **** x 3 or something

 

[Kanelol]

found it

turns out dark's not even in it, im just tarded

 

[Tomacawk]

no, if you screw up in the pivot a ton of **** can happen
if you're lucky you dash away.
none of this is really important, nobody is going to start pivot shining, and the few people that already jc shine aren't going to stop so that they can pivot shine
it's all preference, I really don't know why you keep insisting it's the best approach and using emphasis/word choice to imply that you're right

does anybody want help with a specific matchup? I'm willing to sit down and dump my thoughts if somebody wants to hear it.

 

[Druggedfox]

it's like dark + roche + zhuV = **** x 3 or something

looool trahh you just picked random combinations of south american players =P

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

lol yeah i definitely did

but i found it :D wait darks not in it? we're thinking of diff. vids i guess

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYjWUs8iGPE

 

[KAOSTAR]

ghost start dark = **** x3 I thought it was.

well brookman....based on the fact that you may side b attempting to pivot...much worse lmao.

if u miss a jc shine u typically jump then shine late aka while airborne. simply jump out lol...escape to a platform or try to fade away. if u hit them and mess up I guess your punishment is no follow up...better than possibly losing a stock by SD any day.

I can also pivot consistently, the other day I dropped a few pivot up tilts which I hope will extend combos... but jc shine is easier and faster lol. u can also jc shine dashing past somebody so u can hit with the back side.



for shield pressure ive ben trying to get to the back side by drilling or fairing thru their shield...then shine nair ..up tilt, turn around jab, into some **** or wait.

 

[Silent Wolf]

i second that pivot shine is harder and slower.

 

[Brookman]

It should be right up your alley then, 'ey otto?

 

[earla]

tips on using

a) utilt
b) dtilt
c) 1st hit uair
d) dsmash

effectively.

?

 

[Tomacawk]

something I've been wondering about, speaking of 1st hit uair
first hit uair to grab seems like it's viable. one of the pseudo combos where they aren't locked in hitstun but can't really get out (maybe spacies could shine before they land if you were to uthrow sour uair grab)
seems like it'd be stylish as **** and pretty effective simply because nobody knows how to deal with it

 

[KAOSTAR]

@toma-I think any good player finding then self in the position of getting uaired to grabbed would probably resort to mashing fairly quickly. you would probably put yourself in a worse position overall. alot of aerials can beat the 7 frame grab window especially considering u have landing lag. ppl will just asdi/sdi out like they do with regular up throw uairs. thats only my opinion tho, which doesn't mean much anyway.

brook-lol if u think silent wolf's goal is to be slower AND less effective.

 

[PK Webb]

why not just nair shine nair shine grab or nair shine grab......mix it up but end with a grab cuz last time i checked grab>sheild

 

[JPOBS]

tips on using

a) utilt
b) dtilt
c) 1st hit uair
d) dsmash

effectively.

?

utilt- fit it into comboes whereever possible. it has good range and amazing followups.

Upthrow-> Utilt on spacies who dont DI around 40-60 percent. on falcon around 50ish and onwards. On shiek at 0-10ish. On marth/sheik when they DI upthrow you can do nair->uptilt.
use it to beat approaches and zone people. everyone needs more uptilt.

Dtilt- mostly for very specific things like shield poking sometimes, or in some jank combos. Its a great spacing tool because of its range. I can't give any specific examples on when to use it, you have to figure it out on your own. Generally tho, if they can't CC it and you have time to land it and are spaced correctly, its ok to go for it. Has some nice follow ups.

I never first hit upair on purpose so idk.

Downsmash- Mostly as a edgeguard on spacies' Side-B. can also waveshine->downsmash characters like sheik/falcon/peach at low percents where upsmash won't kill and you can set up edgeguards. CC->downsmash when you're under attack also has some uses.

 

[unknown522]

so Raynex was playing with riddlebox and KK yesterday and we realized that if peach (and probably various other characters such as spacies) dash attacks your shield. It has enough lag so that you can drop your shield and u-tilt (or *insert move here*) on them before their lag finishes

 

[voorhese]

lol thats great, i have been waveshining peach oos when that happens, so now it will be easier =)

 

[Palpi]

so Raynex was playing with riddlebox and KK yesterday and we realized that if peach (and probably various other characters such as spacies) dash attacks your shield. It has enough lag so that you can drop your shield and u-tilt (or *insert move here*) on them before their lag finishes

damn, that is epic, im gonna try that out today

 

[Sinji]

My favorite combo against peach is Nair>shine>drill>shine>ugrab.

 

[voorhese]

that shouldnt work, the nair shouldnt combo into the shine

 

[Brookman]

Just because something "shouldn't work" doesn't mean it won't . That's what separates the best from the rest.

 

[voorhese]

well "the best" would be that it doesnt combo, and u shouldnt use it, because every peach i know, would punish that

 

[Kanelol]

i like nair'ing d-smashes

 

[Brookman]

well "the best" would be that it doesnt combo, and u shouldnt use it, because every peach i know, would punish that

You're just doing it wrong.

 

[voorhese]

possibly, but that means other foxes are to, 1 word...armada

 

[JPOBS]

wait vorheese, why wouldn't the nair combo into the shine?

unless you mean they can cc it. but even then, late nair->shien combos, and any nair-> shine combos when you catch peach out of her float at reasonable percents.

your post makes it seem like it will never work when theres tons of situations that legit combo nair->shine
the problem is what happens after the shine lol

 

[Sinji]

possibly, but that means other foxes are to, 1 word...armada

nair>shine works for me. It all depends on the set up.

 

[voorhese]

i think they can smash di up into a nair or something like that

 

[Brookman]

well "the best" would be that it doesnt combo, and u shouldnt use it, because every peach i know, would punish that

possibly, but that means other foxes are to, 1 word...armada

i think they can smash di up into a nair or something like that

I recommend you switch your avatar to this:

 

[KAOSTAR]

i think they can smash di up into a nair or something like that

I don't like to shine after nairs vs floaties because its bad for comboing. but its reasonable that a nair shine can work as intended at low percents and with ccs.

 

[Brookman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHP06bjmhuM&feature=feedu

 

[Sinji]

I saw the vid yesterday. Druggedfox had gud spacing with those nairs.

 

[voorhese]

I recommend you switch your avatar to this:

is my facebook pic lol (actually me, no photoshop or anything)

 

[Brookman]

This does not surprise me.

 

[Lovage]

i won a tournament today over like all of socal

so freaking stoked!!!

<333333 fox (sometimes) LOL

 

[Silent Wolf]

i won a tournament today over like all of socal

so freaking stoked!!!

<333333 fox (sometimes) LOL

whod you beat

 

[Pi]

so Raynex was playing with riddlebox and KK yesterday and we realized that if peach (and probably various other characters such as spacies) dash attacks your shield. It has enough lag so that you can drop your shield and u-tilt (or *insert move here*) on them before their lag finishes

wavedash is faster if you do it perfectly, by a couple frames, and the lag time is something you're probably more use to
but i guess shield drop utilt would be easier
wavedash oos feels more comfortable to me than shield drop

 

[JPOBS]

ya lovage, who did you **** up on ur path to glory