Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[KAOSTAR]

Blunted Object and Dieslow are hella tight falcos. I know everyone has seen that 100$ money match. There are alot of decent falcos just lyin around BC.

 

[Roneblaster]

for anyone who doesnt have ICs experience.

consider yourself lucky.

 

[PK Webb]

I playa ic all the time.......its so annoying.....u can't grab that much and no shine combos......annoying as hell

 

[ArcNatural]

I playa ic all the time.......its so annoying.....u can't grab that much and no shine combos......annoying as hell

I would disagree, shine usually combos to nana dying a decent amount of the time if you know what your doing and know the shine won't be shielded. Popo usually can't do anything about it except get hit trying to prevent it.

 

[CalamityofCox]

or the other way around if they pick a different colour.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

what should i be doing when a falco dthrows my fox?
if i shine he can shine, if i di away he can grab, if i di behind him he can utilt...
is that how it works?

also what should i do if a sheik is dthrow tech chasing?
just mix up when i tech and don't tech?

i played just enough yesterday to have these questions and not enough to get the answers.

 

[RaynEX]

If the Sheik reads you right, there really isn't a way out. Many players don't focus too much on d.i. before being techchased. We're taught that the main focus is what to do on the ground. A good tip is to try and vary your d.i. AND your tech patterns. Don't always tech towards if you d.i. away. Don't always tech in place if you neutral d.i.

Use different kinds of d.i., but mix up your landing with no tech and all the other directions. Sometimes hold away and tech away, sometimes hold away and no tech. Some people don't truly realize how many options there are when getting up.

Any proficient techchaser can tell you, reading d.i. is a huge clue to how the opponent will tech. Once you mix up the 3 general d.i. trajectories (towards, neutral, away) with the 4 tech options (no tech, in place, towards, away)...it produces a pretty unseeable mix-up.

At least..until you face an opponent who has solid reaction.

Vs. Falco's dthrow:

-d.i. away shine
-d.i. away buffer roll / sidestep
-d.i. away shield (most Falcos don't dthrow and grab again)
-d.i. away jump out
-d.i. away jab / usmash

As long as you move away from him after the dthrow, you can interrupt him with pretty much anything. The only bad thing that might happen, is if you throw a limb out when he shines. The invincibility might catch you and you'll get comboed. D.i. away and shine + jump OOS covers your *** pretty well. He can't run into you, throw a move out, AND you get out of there. Its what I usually do.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

thanks thanks

so di away and shine to retreating shffl would be infinitely safe? lol

 

[FoxLisk]

RaynEX is right about mixing up your DI too. let me explain why from the sheik's perspective:

generally a sheik will dthrow you and then walk in whatever direction you DI. this makes it possible/easier for her to react to your teching decision. but it also makes sense for someone to DI away and then tech away, so she's likely to be sort of expecting that. Even if she knows you might not, that's the most natural thing to go for. so if you DI away and tech away once, it makes it easy for a player to fall into that habit and then next time you DI away and tech in place and she might run past you and mess up.

i think there's nothing you can do against a sheik with perfect reaction time (anyone verify? i know CF can't, not certain on fox/falco), so all you can do is try to be as tricky as possible.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

yeah, that's what i was afraid of... lol

i was hoping there'd be something i didn't know like "oh yeah, when sheik dthrows you, just press up on the dpad to escape"

 

[ChivalRuse]

Most Sheiks expect you to tech the first dthrow and not tech the second dthrow, I noticed. The reason why this is prevalent is because many spacies tech her first dthrow out of habit - then, after getting regrabbed, it clicks in their mind that they're getting tech chased, and they decide not to tech (or tech in place, hoping the Sheik messes up by a few frames so they can spotdodge her grab). Not always true, but it's a good idea to avoid the trend of doing some kind of tech on the first dthrow. It's really just a mixup, since few Sheiks have perfect reaction time.

 

[KirbyKaze]

DI behind Sheik most of the time during throw tech chase.

 

[FoxLisk]

Why's that? Does that give sheik the smallest window of opportunity?

 

[LumpyCPU...]

(or tech in place, hoping the Sheik messes up by a few frames so they can spotdodge her grab).

my "trick" is to sometimes tech in place and shine asap. lol not too great against experienced players...

 

[Lovage]

if you're a true baller you di away -> dtilt when falco dthrows you


but not everyone is a true baller

 

[LumpyCPU...]

yeah but your dtilt can get hit by his shine, right??

does being a true baller alter one's hitbox?
lol naw idk

 

[Roneblaster]

lol im a true baller and didnt even know it.

thanks for enlightening me oscar

 

[RaynEX]

Most Sheiks expect you to tech the first dthrow and not tech the second dthrow, I noticed. The reason why this is prevalent is because many spacies tech her first dthrow out of habit - then, after getting regrabbed, it clicks in their mind that they're getting tech chased, and they decide not to tech (or tech in place, hoping the Sheik messes up by a few frames so they can spotdodge her grab). Not always true, but it's a good idea to avoid the trend of doing some kind of tech on the first dthrow. It's really just a mixup, since few Sheiks have perfect reaction time.

This post is amazing. Everyone should REALLY keep this in mind. Really good post Chival. I definitely get into this habit.

yeah but your dtilt can get hit by his shine, right??

does being a true baller alter one's hitbox?
lol naw idk

Falco's shine would start before the dtilt but he'd be too far to hit. After he whiffs, your dtilt would hit him.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Actually, I had a friend who wasnt as good as me but he could tech chase and punish my fox and it would often even out the match.

He finally told me that when I was going to tech in place, I didnt DI the dthrow. I was like WTF you got me lol.

Little combinations of DI plus direction of tech can keep sheik guessing.

good**** Chivalruse

 

[LumpyCPU...]

cool cool thanks you guys.

kfc was owning my fox yesterday with sheik (who he doesn't even play -_-) by mostly just tech chasing.
i have this image of him having perfect reactions lol but i'll try to consciously decide where and when to tech and not let my habits take over.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Why's that? Does that give sheik the smallest window of opportunity?

Just do it lol.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

wouldn't mixing it up be better than always di'ing behind her?

um... just do it, i guess. lol

 

[KAOSTAR]

KK is just trying to get everyone to **** up so he can tech chase the world with sheik

 

[ChivalRuse]

Actually, I had a friend who wasnt as good as me but he could tech chase and punish my fox and it would often even out the match.

He finally told me that when I was going to tech in place, I didnt DI the dthrow. I was like WTF you got me lol.

Little combinations of DI plus direction of tech can keep sheik guessing.

good**** Chivalruse

There's this MD/VA Falcon player, Thumbswayup, who is notoriously good at tech chasing space animals. I was curious if he had a secret method or something, so one day I asked about it. Apparently his rule is that whenever someone chooses a specific tech option, he remembers it, because they're more likely to choose it again later. I definitely think this is true. Some people just refuse to do certain things. It also makes tech chasing easier. Why would you do something on reaction when it's guaranteed through pure reads, anyway?

 

[LumpyCPU...]

wha??

react = what happened
read = what you think will happen

react > read

react + read = silent spectre

 

[Lovage]

every decision you make in this game is based off both reaction and prediction, it's never solely one or the other

 

[LumpyCPU...]

impossible to argue against that, but don't you agree that only reacting would be overall more beneficial than only making reads in a scenario where both are viable options?

idk why i'm trying to "black and white" this with such generalized statements, but i am...

 

[KirbyKaze]

Unknown is smoking some crack. Our Falcos are okay but not the best. Top two would probably be BluntedObject and Dieslow. But they got nooooothing on the SoCal Falcos.

I never said anything about that.

Also, I was talking about EC mostly.


- you know who's posting.

 

[TheGeneral]

To anyone who plays a lot of marths - Is running waveshine xx up-smash guaranteed on marth regardless of his di? I can combo it in training mode but obviously the marth isn't di-ing. Is it a reliable combo on him?

If so ...

if not .....

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

on falco's dthrow, just hold down and press B as soon as your out. fox has frame advantage on falco after that move. In fact you can probably just buffer a roll before he can do anything.

 

[FoxLisk]

Just do it lol.

be nice and explain?

 

[Kason Birdman]

Unknown is smoking some crack. Our Falcos are okay but not the best. Top two would probably be BluntedObject and Dieslow. But they got nooooothing on the SoCal Falcos.

where is dieslow from?

 

[unknown522]

BC somewhere.

To anyone who plays a lot of marths - Is running waveshine xx up-smash guaranteed on marth regardless of his di? I can combo it in training mode but obviously the marth isn't di-ing. Is it a reliable combo on him?

If so ...

if not .....

you don't even have to be running before the shine to get it to work.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

wait wait... shine wd upsmash works on marth if he di's away from the shine?

wtf? man... my wavedashes must suck *****...

 

[TheGeneral]

BC somewhere.

you don't even have to be running before the shine to get it to work.

Maybe for GOOD foxes, lol. Ok, good to know I'm not wasting my time then.

 

[unknown522]

yeah, it's a pain to get down kind of. You have to be fast and get a full length WD if they DI away.

Edit: SW, I'm talking to BO10 on MSN right now. He told me that you beat him this weekend. He also recommends that I ask you how?

so how did you do it? lol

 

[LumpyCPU...]

i need to work on my wavedashes, man...

i can sometimes barely get waveshine to grab on marth.

 

[unknown522]

yeah, it sucks when he sidestepps your grab, then you lose a stock.

 

[Silent Wolf]

yeah, it's a pain to get down kind of. You have to be fast and get a full length WD if they DI away.

Edit: SW, I'm talking to BO10 on MSN right now. He told me that you beat him this weekend. He also recommends that I ask you how?

so how did you do it? lol

Ill post the vids later tonight.
Also, sion is on the level of blunted object and dieslow apparently.

EDIT: i didnt do everything the way i should have, so ill just tell you that vs good falcos, you need to maneuver around the platforms and look for openings. falco controls the ground, you dont want to be down there when control of the match is up for grabs. try to stay away from him and throw out lasers when you can. try to get shines in at low percents to knock him down and go from there. at higher percents shine and aerials work for knocking him down.
if he tries to go for shl grab, try to shine out of shield preemptively, its usually safe. they can catch on and double jump dair over you or something, although ive never actually seen a falco do this, they usually just start to wait until theyre more comfortable with going for the grab or do something else. another good thing to do if dash away from him when hes close with an shl in your direction and shield real quick so youre able to bair just in case he tries to go in with a grab, its pretty safe.
tech chase on platforms with dair if they tech. if they tech in the center just do a dair grab. if they tech on the side, do a dair, and be ready to immediately run off, do another dair and then grab, or dair shine, depending on whether or not they fell onto the stage or off the stage. on stages like dream land and battlefield, when you up throw they usually dont tech, so do uair. if they DI towards the ledge, run off shine or nair shine. if they DI off the platform towards the stage run off with a nair, then grab, or a uair if theyre close enough and then grab.
for anything else just look for what worked and what didnt in the matches. and watch eggz vs blunted too, eggz won their second set so you might pick up a couple things from him as well. i didnt watch it yet tho so idk. ill post the vids tomorrow

 

[Ocho(*8*)]

what trajectory does fox's shine send you at?

I mean for DI purposes. Like how exactly should i hold the control stick if I want to survive a shine spike?