Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[ChivalRuse]

I agree. That's a pretty epic sig.

ForeverOdd, people who roll and then attack are very bad usually. Just pressure him with aerials. If he keeps rolling the same way, just grab wait for it and grab him.

 

[MarsFool!]

edit: MarsFool, why wouldn't just U-tilt in most of those situations then? It sounds like it would work exactly the same, or better (referring to them coming at you or going for the edge). U-tilt has better range and stuff.

Id go for the grater knockback as opposed to the safer hit. U tilt range is beautiful, it covers the entire ledge at the end, but it can also be teched because of that.

LOL Raynex >_>


Falco>>>>fox, until hes off the stage

 

[EC_Joey]

Im having issues with two things.

First off, I have a friend who plays sheik and uses the Side-tilt-A WAY too much. Once he hits you with it, its pretty much a guaranteed 5 hits. Any ideas on how to stop this?


My second question, I have another friend who rolls way too much. He will attack, roll a bunch, then attack again, and he is very good at avoiding my attacks. What is the best method for handling this?

Thanks a bunch for the help!

First problem: DI out so he can't f-tilt you again.

Second problem: Punish his rolls. Grab, upsmash, dash attack are all solid choices.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I like shielding with my back to Falco. Shield the laser. Then bair oos. It's so funny when it hits.

 

[ZoSo]

Shielding with your back to your opponent is a terrible, terrible idea.

RaynEX: Kind of surprised you think Falco beats Fox.

 

[ArcNatural]

Shielding with your back to your opponent is a terrible, terrible idea.

RaynEX: Kind of surprised you think Falco beats Fox.

I'm not and I agree. The only top Fox I know that consistently beat Falco's recently was Jman. To me it looks like a majority of the time Falco's get knocked out by other characters.

 

[MarsFool!]

I like shielding with my back to Falco. Shield the laser. Then bair oos. It's so funny when it hits.

You dont get shieldgrabbed out of that? People behind me = eww

 

[RaynEX]

In the backroom, there is a thread about organizing smash-related terms and tactics for the benefit of the community; sort of like a compendium of past and present words the smash collective has used.

My sig is Joshu's addition to the 'mindgames' definition. lol

Id go for the grater knockback as opposed to the safer hit. U tilt range is beautiful, it covers the entire ledge at the end, but it can also be teched because of that.

LOL Raynex >_>


Falco>>>>fox, until hes off the stage

Yeah, once Falco is off-stage its FUn time with a capital F U. ***** finally gets knocked off the stage and gets his. Stupid lasers

I think the balance truly starts to shift once you knock Falco down. If you shine him, or grab him the match-up becomes sort of even. Its definitely a managable fight as Fox, but the parts when you're not landing hits and trying to avoid lasers really sets you back in percent, and patience. Also, getting hit for roughly 60% -> edge-guard is gay gay gay

Shielding with your back to your opponent is a terrible, terrible idea.

RaynEX: Kind of surprised you think Falco beats Fox.

To each his own I suppose. I've seen and played the match-up many, many times and feel my opinion is pretty accurate.

I'm not and I agree. The only top Fox I know that consistently beat Falco's recently was Jman. To me it looks like a majority of the time Falco's get knocked out by other characters.

Jman is definitely the best against Falcos as Fox. At Rom 1 he was taking Shiz 60-40 in friendlies.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

why isn't shielding with your back to falco a good idea? its not like you're going to get a shield grab anyways. bair OoS is a really good move

 

[MarsFool!]

Because thats the worst position you can be in the game. If youre opponent is behind you all of their options are open, if youre shielding and facing away you cant do anything but jump, roll, bair OoS and get grabbed/generally *****.

Fox A is shielding away from fox B then bairs oos
Fox B cc's the bair Oos into an upsmash.
Whos in the bad position now >_>

 

[RaynEX]

Considering the fact that Fox's safest oos option is probably shine, having his back turned doesn't hinder him much.

If Fox A were facing towards Fox B, the only thing he'd accrue would be his shield grab. Mind you, the bair would be lost but it isn't that big of a sacrifice assuming you know how amazing usmash oos and shine oos are anyways. For most characters I would agree, having your back turned in shield is bad. But Fox/Falco players don't have to worry about it that much.

My theory smash scenario:

Fox A is in shield, facing away from Fox B
Fox B waits for something so he can CC it and be smart and stuff
Fox A jump cancels a shine perfectly out of shield
Shine hits the CC'ing' Fox B
Fox A turns around and JC grabs

c-c-c combo

(this shouldn't work btw)


also, when you have techskill your Fox should be able to do amazing things like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr1mhUPsCWc&feature=channel

 

[KAOSTAR]

I been trying to pick up fox. critiques plz. anything useful

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQrY9UDDJ3A

 

[smasher01]

be technical and play hella best advice ever

 

[Tomacawk]

when you hit sheik off the map grab the ledge pretty much no matter what
you should watch more good foxes and see what good followups are to nairs at low %'s, and also practice your tech skill
and you should WD oos a LOT vs sheik. like if my shield is ever tilted I wd oos asap...usually away and if they do it again i go back in with shffl nair

 

[EC_Joey]

I been trying to pick up fox. critiques plz. anything useful

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQrY9UDDJ3A

I suggest playing someone who knows what they're doing if you want critiques. I don't really see the point of critiquing these matches because you're fooling around half the time instead of playing to win.

 

[KAOSTAR]

idk then, I wasnt fooling around I was trying to win. And that person normally doesnt make as many mistakes.

It wasnt a tourney obviously but I felt that we were both at least trying to win. Maybe thats a problem then with my fox if ppl think im messin around.

Ill do a mm or something on friday and post it.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Because thats the worst position you can be in the game. If youre opponent is behind you all of their options are open, if youre shielding and facing away you cant do anything but jump, roll, bair OoS and get grabbed/generally *****.

Fox A is shielding away from fox B then bairs oos
Fox B cc's the bair Oos into an upsmash.
Whos in the bad position now >_>

I didn't say bair OOS was good in a fox ditto. It's never good to shield in the first place in that match-up. I'm talking about Fox vs Falco. You have to shield his lasers from time to time. Assuming he isn't just sitting in one place laser spamming, and he's actually using the laser to close ground and put you in a defensive position, if you shield his approaching laser with your backed turned to him, bair OOS oftentimes catches him mid jump / run and with a useful hitbox that doesn't usually get beaten by nair or dair due to the fact that bair has range AND he's moving toward you, which in smash has a the strange effect of increasing the priority of stationary hitboxes. I hope we're on the same page.

 

[EC_Joey]

idk then, I wasnt fooling around I was trying to win. And that person normally doesnt make as many mistakes.

It wasnt a tourney obviously but I felt that we were both at least trying to win. Maybe thats a problem then with my fox if ppl think im messin around.

Ill do a mm or something on friday and post it.

My problem with that Sheik player isn't that he's making mistakes, it's that he doesn't seem to challenge you at all. Most of the time he sits in one place and spams needles or ftilt. It's more helpful to critique a video of a person losing than a person winning.

The reason I felt you were fooling around was because of a ton of unnecessary things you were doing. Moonwalks, shines to platform wavelands, shine firefox ledgestalls, etc. I very rarely saw a properly spaced approach. I think at one point you got hit by 3 uncharged needles in a row.

 

[smasher01]

WA is technical.

 

[KAOSTAR]

My problem with that Sheik player isn't that he's making mistakes, it's that he doesn't seem to challenge you at all. Most of the time he sits in one place and spams needles or ftilt. It's more helpful to critique a video of a person losing than a person winning.

The reason I felt you were fooling around was because of a ton of unnecessary things you were doing. Moonwalks, shines to platform wavelands, shine firefox ledgestalls, etc. I very rarely saw a properly spaced approach. I think at one point you got hit by 3 uncharged needles in a row.

lol ok sounds legit. Ill get a better video to post

thanks

 

[MarsFool!]

I didn't say bair OOS was good in a fox ditto. It's never good to shield in the first place in that match-up. I'm talking about Fox vs Falco. You have to shield his lasers from time to time. Assuming he isn't just sitting in one place laser spamming, and he's actually using the laser to close ground and put you in a defensive position, if you shield his approaching laser with your backed turned to him, bair OOS oftentimes catches him mid jump / run and with a useful hitbox that doesn't usually get beaten by nair or dair due to the fact that bair has range AND he's moving toward you, which in smash has a the strange effect of increasing the priority of stationary hitboxes. I hope we're on the same page.

Same page. but I wouldnt want a falco behind me either. If he was approaching lasers correctly hed be low enough to the ground and spaced far enough away from you that after the laser he could shield. Most falcos dont laser very high, or at least they shouldn't. So yeah he would have to be too close anyway for that to work.

 

[CanISmash]

i like having my back facing falco can't say why tho. more likely to shine oos than anything.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I don't generally like having my back to anyone >_>

 

[Lovage]

i love shielding on a platform edge with my back to the person
then they hit me and i bair them

unless they're smart and they run past me to push me off and attack

 

[RaynEX]

or waveland on and grab when you're waiting on the platform in shield.

but who does that honestly

 

[Brookman]

why isn't shielding with your back to falco a good idea? its not like you're going to get a shield grab anyways. bair OoS is a really good move

Because thats the worst position you can be in the game. If youre opponent is behind you all of their options are open, if youre shielding and facing away you cant do anything but jump, roll, bair OoS and get grabbed/generally *****.

Fox A is shielding away from fox B then bairs oos
Fox B cc's the bair Oos into an upsmash.
Whos in the bad position now >_>

This is a really bad argument and I like sveet's idea. Really do.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I believe it was my idea originally. ^_^

 

[RaynEX]

*throws credit in chivalruse's face*


I don't know too many players that would CC a bair out of shield. Theory smashing is always bad in arguments.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Falco is the worst viable character in the game, definitely worse than Peach and Falcon so I don't know what you guys are complaining about.

Laser does sooooooooooooooooooooooo little. Shine does soooooooooooooooooooooooo little. Don't even think about comboing with him; they're all escapable with DI. Edgeguarding is soooooooooooo bad. He dies in one hit like every single stock.

Falco sucks.

 

[Brookman]

^ qft/ 10

 

[MarsFool!]

This topic is just short of amazing.


Falco is just about George W Bush Senior tier :D

 

[Mogwai]

yea, Falco blows. his only favorable and even matchups are all of them.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Falco is just about George W Bush Senior tier :D

wow i didnt know he had a son

 

[MarsFool!]

t(-_-)t

LOL SO GOOD

 

[RaynEX]

Forget Falco.

Its Bush that sucks. His mindgames are ineffectual and his lasers don't do much damage.

 

[Little England]

I can't approach for ****. Help me.

I habitually approach with nairs which gets me ***** more often than not. More and more I'm approaching with my shine, which is very safe, but won't work forever. The scariest (for me), but most effective thing to do is grab.

I've tried mixing in dairs which works wonderfully when I land them, and DDing while mixing in Jman lazers. I should probably do this more often.

I just want to know your guys' general approaches. thx

 

[Mogwai]

when I play Fox I don't approach, I just bait moves with DDs and punish with either grab or pivot usmash.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Punish with Nair. Screw approaching.

I have come to realize that approaching is absolutely awful in this game in every conceivable way.

 

[cykofox]

Punish with Nair. Screw approaching.

I have come to realize that approaching is absolutely awful in this game in every conceivable way.

quoted for the truthz. when you don't approach your percentage of messing up mathematically decrease. this game is gay.

 

[Little England]

press buttons



assuming you've got that part down, attack your opponent
but don't shield, roll, or run away every time something you're not used to happens
you need to analyze the situation and find a way to stay in it, to keep pressure on your opponent
think of a plan to attack them, and then react to how that plan changes depending on what the other guy does
improvise more once you get in close; you can do more things than nair and shine once you're in

IMO fox is mostly about always having a plan, and changing that plan as you go

I'd like to think that this is a better idea than to not approach. Or..maybe this is what you guys were implying.....?