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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

Lovage

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 15, 2007
Messages
6,746
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STANKONIA CA
oh LOL
yea i noticed it as easiest with falco on battlefield, and dreamland is kinda easy too.
it seems like one of those things i'm going to have to learn the timing on each platform individually rather then just getting good at it. its pretty cool anyway

as for genesis i have no idea where i'm going but i'll try haha
 

IxxI

Smash Fence
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
2,147
Location
Berkeley, CA
When you waveshine people sometimes I end up having to do 2 wavedashes to get to my opponent, such as falco or marth. Is this right or am I doing it wrong?
 

EC_Joey

Smash Lord
Joined
May 30, 2006
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何?
Make your wavedash longer by moving the control stick a little below horizontal instead of 45 degrees.
 

DtJ Jungle

Check out my character in #GranblueFantasy
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
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Grancypher
yeah you cant waveshine every character. some fall or are pushed too far away by the shine.
 

IxxI

Smash Fence
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
2,147
Location
Berkeley, CA
Okay, so its not my wavedash.
What about running a little bit to get a grab in?'
When I waveshine Marth I tend to run a little bit to get that grab.
Is it right?
 

DtJ Jungle

Check out my character in #GranblueFantasy
BRoomer
Joined
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Messages
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Grancypher
Yes for marth you have to run/walk a bit.

Bing did that to me in Moar Drank actually. shine two wd's jab.
 

nasir123

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
748
Location
St.Chatharines
hey guys i hsve recently been playing melee .. i now realize its better than brawl:) sorry it took me so long...

but yeah i am have a little trouble with the fox vs fox match up can any1 here help meh??
 
Joined
Jun 27, 2005
Messages
10,463
Location
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Advanced Fox and Falco Shine Tricks~ (X = area with tons of potential)

1 - Edge-jump canceled shine (Out of shield from solid dash or wavedash) - Fall a bit shine turn around - Up-B stall - Note: If done on the rock on Kong Jungle, you instantly acquire instant wall jump thus enabling reverse laser re-grab - X

2 - Edge-jump canceled shine (Out of shield from solid dash or wavedash) - Fall until low, double laser spacing, shine turn around - Double laser away from stage barely onto stage - Land - Shine turn around fall past ledge/Turn around jab if yo want to continue on the level instead - X

3 - Shine during jump upon platform instant land (Routine on Metroid Adventure??) - Short hopped edge canceled aerial - X (Instant Shine Side B cancel into immediate waveland? Unlikely)

4 - (Before leaving dash dance range) Dash JC shine out of shield turn around SHFFL/Shine reverse laser (Reverse waveshine)

5 - [Stadium Tree transformation] Short hop shine wall jump instant waveland on tree - Regular routine (Ignore)

6 - Triple wall jump on Corneria - X (Maybe throw in shines or a waveland at the top...?)

7 - Moonwalk JC shine - X (Or wavedash into moon walk and do the shine out of shield. The wavedash makes it so the shield doesn't stop your momentum as opposed to when it stops when done during dash animation)

8 - Triple Shinespike out of shield - turn around ledge re-grab with firefox stall without your jump

9 - Shine during jump upon platform instant land, also, hit with the top of the shine as fox and JC into usmash. hit with the top with falco at low percents on spacies and land then jump into short hopped uair) - Or just waveshine twice and gimp, too many possibilities. If you had a turnip or other item you jump jump above the platform - Shine right above it to instantly land - JC throw item - Shinespike/Shine under them, waveland on platform - Fall through onto them with dair - X

Before various shine out of shields you could throw in turn cancels as well. Turn canceling is when you cancel the turn animation by either jumping or shielding. A lot of these shines can be turned around in as well.

I figure maybe If I give away some things I'll be doing that are..unconventional maybe others will pick them up and perfect them and make a video so I'll be more motivated to make one. Either way I'll make one this summer with all these perfected and then some. I haven't been practicing too much as of late, but all I do is think about the game so I've gotten a lot better and understand how everything works now. More people need to get the drive to want to be unbearably technical at this game. If more people did, sooner than you would think even more would come up after that once the technical bar is raised once more. So who wants to help me..
 

DtJ Jungle

Check out my character in #GranblueFantasy
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
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Lulz I've seen it and read that but some of this is kinda hard.

Actualy I guess the only one I'm having a hard time visualizing is the moonwalk to jc shine. So you would just moonwalk into a shine jc into like an aerial?
 
Joined
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Messages
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You jump out of the moonwalk but on the 4th frame after pressing X/Y with Fox and 5th frame with Falco, you shine to maintain your position on the ground. Similar to the way I explained JC shining out of the initial dash dance/pivot animation range in number 4 on the list I made.
 

SpaceFalcon

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 3, 2007
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604
Silent wolf to good >_<

More people need to get the drive to want to be unbearably technical at this game. If more people did, sooner than you would think even more would come up after that once the technical bar is raised once more. So who wants to help me..
I was like this for 2 years or so, but a lot of things I do are getting out dated. Bunch of kids here starting to think they are faster then me, fak that.

I really hope you and shane/nate make it out to TS3, gonna be a lot of fun for sure.
 

Tomacawk

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
3,783
Location
Central IL
SW, I might be able to step up and try to push you, but only on the conditions that I don't actually have to get nearly as good as you with tech, and I don't have to get better at pivot waveshining because I'm pretty bad at that.
also, i dont have any idea what you're talking about, so I have to wait for a video.
what should I be practicing to get ready to push you?
 
Joined
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Messages
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If you don't know what I'm talking about, don't expect to push me after I release my video =P
I might get this video done far before the summer. I think I could get all the recording done this weekend if I tried.
 

Tomacawk

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
3,783
Location
Central IL
if you say so
just because my reading comp sucks (being sober may help) doesn't mean I don't learn tech really fast
:(
 
Joined
Jun 27, 2005
Messages
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the west
True dat
I just mean someone doing all these things and releasing them before me would motivate me to make my video faster and better assuming the quality of the first video motivates me. I just meant if you make yours after it wont make a difference unless its better than mine. But who am i to imply that yours wont be better, well wait and see.
 

RaynEX

Colonel RTSD
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
Messages
6,454
Location
Corneria, Lylat System
I got some new matches up! Really trying to improve for a tournament coming up bunch of **** monsters gonna be there.. their pretty decent matches all advice/critique appreciated, RayneX I'm looking at you >:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98mObybOozw&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3S_cJcoFAU&feature=channel_page

-Put up your shield more. You get hit by alot of randon attacks that Sion didn't even string together properly. After getting hit by an aerial, you'd try to run in and attack immediately after instead of trying to regroup. You ate alot of easily avoidable hits that way. Remember that you have to stay mentally aware of what moves he's throwing out and move around them as safely as possible, without compromising the space advantage you have on Falco. Your objective is to get close and pressure him so he doesn't laser you and stop your flow/movement from a distance. With that being said, you need to weave around his attacks while still keeping that closeness, in order to punish him severely with grabs/shines if he whiffs. This is part of why the match-up is so hard.

-Refrain from illusioning onto the stage after being knocked off, or coming from the edge. This match-up is worse for you in the Fox ditto in the sense that, if your opponent is capable enough, you can die/take HUGE damage from a single hit. Shine, grab, dair, nair. If you leave yourself open even for a second you've basically given your opponent 50% for free. This goes for even mid-level Falcos, so be careful. Try to be more patient when coming back onto the stage, and cycle through your options quickly - instead of choosing the one that gets you back on the fastest.

-First match, 0:41 - THINK. He's coming back with invincibility. Don't run around spamming techskill, or you'll use a stock. If you hadn't died, you could have potentially landed a grab and done quick/heavy damage in a matter of seconds. Treat all your stocks as if they were your last. Play it safe/smart.

-First match, 0:49 - Opposite scenario this time. When YOU have invincibility, use it to your advantage! Showing off your techskill isn't going to kill your opponent. You WD off the platform, DJed, lasered, naired through it and ran in the other direction. All of this was done while your opponent was on the other side of the stage, waiting for your frames to run out.

-First match, 0:52 - The shine combo was completely d.i.able. This happened alot in the matches I watched. I'm pointing out the first instances of these things I feel you should work on though, so I apologize if they seem extremely bunched together. Back on topic: You could have d.i.ed the dairs AND the shine. D.i.ing the dair to escape the stair-step dair is pretty difficult...but on the shine all you had to do was hold away. Don't let him combo you like that man! Make him work for it.

-First match, 1:14 - Don't jab if they block your aerial. You'll get shield-grabbed or punished in another way. In this instance you got shine-baired. Go for the shine and pressure them if they block your aerial.

-Second match, 2:30 - Why did you d.i. into him on that nair? D.i. away from that ****. :)

-I don't want to point this out again, but it happens over and over and over. When you opponent comes down after you've just killed them. PLAY IT SAFE. You've lost so many stocks by running around shffling and not paying attention to your opponent. Its equivalent to turning your back on your opponent in a boxing ring at the beginning of the second round. :urg: Painful.

-3:24 - Work on making your edge-guarding less random, more pinpoint and fluid. Lucky he suicided that time. But yeah, grab edge and bair or something. Standing there spamming shine would do anything man.

-I take back of what I said earlier. Your d.i. on his nairs and shine gradually improved as the set progressed. Good to see that.

-All in all, pretty solid. Clean up your edge-guarding and make it so that your opponent is afraid to be knocked off at any percent. M2k style, basically. There is always room to improve edge-guard. Reaction speed, move selection, and scenario predicting (i.e. will they go low, high, sweetspot) and covering those options are key factors in edge-guarding at high level. Work on landing those simple combo finishers. Don't over complicate combos if all you need is a bair to edge-guard. Work out your shield more. Incorporate shield WDs to move fluidly through lasers.

I'm honestly probably reiterating alot of information you already know with this light commentary. Hope I helped anyways.


My timing for SDI sucks ***, even though in other things I have really good timing.

I should just go to like a BtT mode that has burners and test that, right?

So I know that you can shine @ around 20% when you're being CG'd by Marth, but what about Fox? If you don't DI he gets a usmash, if you DI he gets another grab?
Are you talking about Fox on Fox? If so, Fox can CG Fox/Falco until 80% in they continue to d.i. left or right. If you neutral d.i. Fox's throws you can escape with a jump or shine at exactly 55% (which is the exact percent good opponents will utilt combo you at). Oh, and Fox can get an usmash or grab regardless of whether you d.i. or not. You should know this, you're a Fox main. Once you get grabbed you are going to eat a hit - no way around it.

Then read back like 7 posts
I'm also having trouble picturing most of that in my head. If I saw it being done, it would make sense and feel less impossible. lol
 

Flamin Roy

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
697
Location
silent hill virginia
RaynEx and silent wolf are my idols
I copy Wolf's tech skill
And i try and mimic's RaynEx's play style
i came pretty far though with the exception of a couple match up's
 

nasir123

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
748
Location
St.Chatharines
You jump out of the moonwalk but on the 4th frame after pressing X/Y with Fox and 5th frame with Falco, you shine to maintain your position on the ground. Similar to the way I explained JC shining out of the initial dash dance/pivot animation range in number 4 on the list I made.
ughhh man u gotta understand 1 simple thing ..... NO ONE IS AS TECHHNICAL AS U !!!
 

Lovage

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 15, 2007
Messages
6,746
Location
STANKONIA CA
Read the video analysis in the first post of this thread and watch the video to see how the way I explained it is portrayed. Then use that to help you visualize my post in this thread.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=129825
>.>

EDIT: Or wait until I make a video or two in summer

aye lovage add me on myspace or get one and add me myspace.com/ottobisno
i dont have a myspace ******
stop being lazy and make small videos
technical language is really limited and not consistent in SSBM its hard to visualize a lot of stuff easily
 
Joined
Jun 27, 2005
Messages
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the west
The only way I can make videos is if I give tapes to people and I don't have a car.
I'm making a Fox/Falco tech video, a Small Falco one on Stadium, and maybe another Falcon video but I doubt that. I might make a video where I do things on each stage with Fox and make it so after each routine I side B off the screen and it goes into my Side Bing onto the next stage and edge canceling into the next routine.
 
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