Lovage
Smash Hero
sounds dope
stop tantalizing us and get to recording fool!
stop tantalizing us and get to recording fool!
-
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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-
- Thread starter Silent Wolf
- Start date
Silent Wolf
...
I'm recording tomorrow.
PCHU
Smash Lord
That would be very interesting.
I'm trying to put together something for myself, just to see if I can do it.
Doesn't help that I'm grounded....
But yeah.
Mind making everything audible, like the shines and all?
I want to hear how fast you can multishine, just so I'll have some useless goal.
Right now, I have none besides making sure I fastfall everything and making sure my shield pressure game is good.
I tested on a real person, I almost got a shield break, but they had their shield on and off.
I had a few waveshine shield pressures as well.
Sadly, I have nothing recorded yet.
But aside from all of that, I've nothing else.
But I'm wondering how I'm going to set this thing up.
I've got to do it all in one shot, and video editing isn't one of my skills.
I just want to start with something that makes the viewer want to keep watching.
But, I'd rather save multishines for last, being that I want to end with at least 30.
I can't begin with them, else I might not be able to hit 30+ later.
Meneks
Smash Lord
I know it probably sounds dumb to alot of you but i am having alot of trouble playing defensive ganons...
Any tips/strategies would be great
Any tips/strategies would be great
Flamin Roy
Smash Ace
Hey lovage lets make a fox tech vid since i have no recorder
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Good Ganons are a pain, just ask Jman, KDJ or any other fox not PC Chris that had to play Kage at RoM.
I think the main issues are to be careful you don't get caught trying to laser camp near the edge of a stage. Single hits pretty much finish Fox there if they are good at edgeguarding. I just try to watch the jumps, If I'm close enough and I catch them doing a double jump I tend to use that opportunity to jump over them and either bair or start the pressure. Trying to approach after they land when they are fairing defensively is pretty hard. They also get destroyed by upthrow upair, especially if you can bait them into double jumping.
I generally find being directly behind them is the best spot to be in. So I try to look for opportunities to get in that spot. On big stages like dreamland or FD you can force them to approach more so if you like camping I think those are generally the best stages. On shorter stages I think running shield works well you just have watch for the jab afterwards as it's pretty standard.
Just remember your faster up close than he is. So once your on top of Ganon you just really need to press the advantage and not let them reset the spacing. Especially if they are playing defensively for most of the match.
Tomacawk
Smash Master
SW I honestly believe I could push you to get more technical but like someone said, that is just a bunch of jargon and pretty impossible to visualize, so I can't even begin to PRACTICE it until I see it, so I guess I'm not the help you'll need
I also struggle with ganons. Would I be better off playing GnW or Falcon rather than fox??
IDK what my problem is. I bair them forever with ledge guarding, I shield pressure really well, and I can wave**** to anything on command, but in tourny play I've lost to every ganon I've ever played.
How can you recover around tipman spikes?
and say a ganon dairs->usmashes me bcuz I miss my DI. Should I survival DI the incoming uair/fair or just take the hit, or combo DI it? I'm not sure how ganon can follow up after that, if at all
and what is the safest route to recover? side B > firefox, right? and should i try to hit ganon with it or sweetspot the ledge?
I also struggle with ganons. Would I be better off playing GnW or Falcon rather than fox??
IDK what my problem is. I bair them forever with ledge guarding, I shield pressure really well, and I can wave**** to anything on command, but in tourny play I've lost to every ganon I've ever played.
How can you recover around tipman spikes?
and say a ganon dairs->usmashes me bcuz I miss my DI. Should I survival DI the incoming uair/fair or just take the hit, or combo DI it? I'm not sure how ganon can follow up after that, if at all
and what is the safest route to recover? side B > firefox, right? and should i try to hit ganon with it or sweetspot the ledge?
Milos
Smash Lord
with recovery if you choose to over b aim slightly above his head.
i mean if you're better with falcon the matchup is definitely falcon's so feel free to switch but these are the fox boards so i'll give fox advice.
force ganon to approach you, usually they'll approach with a fair, fox is fast enough that if they space one far away from you to throw you off or something, you can get in their space in literally a few frames and punish their lag. get in a grab and go for uairs or hard hit back airs.
once they're off the stage back air until they warlock kick, learn the distance of the warlock kick, and meet them off the edge at the end of the kick's animation with a shine or a bair if you can make it back.
defensively? never lose your double jump to a forward air. make sure you're smart on the edge. dont play risky and try and draw them over for a gimp, because if they knock you off the stage and they're proficient you're dead. fairs and dairs are the worst, always keep an eye out for a jab, if you're technical enough, shine out of shield after they aerial your shield, if you get the timing right fox will always hit first or clank.
on the offensive end, rack up damage at low percents by spacing nairs that will sweetspot so if it hits their shield you can shine nair and if it hits them you can waveshine grab/upsmash. nair the **** out of ganon, lasers, upthrows uairs/bairs/nairs until you find an opening for a high % upsmash or an opportunity to get them off the ledge. once they're off the ledge you know what to do. watch out for ganon's up b, it's easy to tech but it comes out really fast and he grabs really far in front of him. shine will get ***** by it unless you time it PERFECTLY. i find it easier to shine shiek out of her up b than ganon sometimes -.-
if you have any more questions dont hesitate to ask
i mean if you're better with falcon the matchup is definitely falcon's so feel free to switch but these are the fox boards so i'll give fox advice.
force ganon to approach you, usually they'll approach with a fair, fox is fast enough that if they space one far away from you to throw you off or something, you can get in their space in literally a few frames and punish their lag. get in a grab and go for uairs or hard hit back airs.
once they're off the stage back air until they warlock kick, learn the distance of the warlock kick, and meet them off the edge at the end of the kick's animation with a shine or a bair if you can make it back.
defensively? never lose your double jump to a forward air. make sure you're smart on the edge. dont play risky and try and draw them over for a gimp, because if they knock you off the stage and they're proficient you're dead. fairs and dairs are the worst, always keep an eye out for a jab, if you're technical enough, shine out of shield after they aerial your shield, if you get the timing right fox will always hit first or clank.
on the offensive end, rack up damage at low percents by spacing nairs that will sweetspot so if it hits their shield you can shine nair and if it hits them you can waveshine grab/upsmash. nair the **** out of ganon, lasers, upthrows uairs/bairs/nairs until you find an opening for a high % upsmash or an opportunity to get them off the ledge. once they're off the ledge you know what to do. watch out for ganon's up b, it's easy to tech but it comes out really fast and he grabs really far in front of him. shine will get ***** by it unless you time it PERFECTLY. i find it easier to shine shiek out of her up b than ganon sometimes -.-
if you have any more questions dont hesitate to ask
soap
Smash Hero
this sounds so cool
I have sort of a block about playing against Falcos. I lose a large majority of matches I play against Falco.
For lasers I've started trying to powershield more consistently by running forward and doing a sliding shield, but on small stages there's not a lot of opportunity to do this. When I can't get a grip on the lasers I get on the platforms, but this usually leaves me an easy target for short hopped shines from the Falco.
Apart from lasers, I keep getting shine combo'd. Mostly has to do with my problems against shield pressure. This is why I'm going to hopefully start shining out of shield all the time.
On the offensive I go for up throw chain grabs and up smashes. I'm probably approaching with nair too much against falcos that shine out of shield. I edgeguard with down smashes, forward tilts, shinespikes, up tilts. I don't bair from the ledge that much because I don't want to get hit by Falco's forward B.
Any general advice for ****** Falco?
For lasers I've started trying to powershield more consistently by running forward and doing a sliding shield, but on small stages there's not a lot of opportunity to do this. When I can't get a grip on the lasers I get on the platforms, but this usually leaves me an easy target for short hopped shines from the Falco.
Apart from lasers, I keep getting shine combo'd. Mostly has to do with my problems against shield pressure. This is why I'm going to hopefully start shining out of shield all the time.
On the offensive I go for up throw chain grabs and up smashes. I'm probably approaching with nair too much against falcos that shine out of shield. I edgeguard with down smashes, forward tilts, shinespikes, up tilts. I don't bair from the ledge that much because I don't want to get hit by Falco's forward B.
Any general advice for ****** Falco?
Milos
Smash Lord
get a grab and get 50% no matter what. uthrow u smash, if they miss DI up smash again.
shining out of shield is VERY useful against falco, try and fit it inbetween a shine and a dair. get those early kills. a less known fact is that even if falco perfectly sweetspots his phantasm, if you're standing right on the ledge you can shine spike him zelgadis status.
chaingrabs are good. with no DI falco can shine out at 63% i believe, so that's the point at which you can't regrab anymore. so when he reaches that percent start u tilting/u smashing. if they DI to the side you can can chain grab for ever. near the edge if they DI away from the stage at around 50 just f smash they're so dead. another cool one is like <30% if they DI off the staged just drop off and shine spike.
lasers are tricky, but keep it simple with fox. you can like sit in your reflector and if they come near you just jump out or wavedash away, shine has no lag. definitely get better at powershielding though, wavepowershield upsmash is really good to start combos, and powershield > Shield grab is nice too. sliding sheilds are very good, so keep trying that.
keep working on it, and make sure you always kill him once he's off the ledge. f tilt shine spike, dash attack shine spike, nair shine spike LOL etc
shining out of shield is VERY useful against falco, try and fit it inbetween a shine and a dair. get those early kills. a less known fact is that even if falco perfectly sweetspots his phantasm, if you're standing right on the ledge you can shine spike him zelgadis status.
chaingrabs are good. with no DI falco can shine out at 63% i believe, so that's the point at which you can't regrab anymore. so when he reaches that percent start u tilting/u smashing. if they DI to the side you can can chain grab for ever. near the edge if they DI away from the stage at around 50 just f smash they're so dead. another cool one is like <30% if they DI off the staged just drop off and shine spike.
lasers are tricky, but keep it simple with fox. you can like sit in your reflector and if they come near you just jump out or wavedash away, shine has no lag. definitely get better at powershielding though, wavepowershield upsmash is really good to start combos, and powershield > Shield grab is nice too. sliding sheilds are very good, so keep trying that.
keep working on it, and make sure you always kill him once he's off the ledge. f tilt shine spike, dash attack shine spike, nair shine spike LOL etc
Silent Wolf
...
SpaceFalcon
Smash Lord
Ganons love waiting for fox to hop all over the place and smack him around. So Fox just needs to settle down for a moment and wait for ganon to pick himself off the ground after he moves.
Tomacawk
Smash Master
raynex about that 55%=end of regrabs, does that include fox AND falco that can shine/jump out?
also, if you get a grab past that percent, say 60%, can you still utilt after the uthrow if they neutral DI?
also, if you get a grab past that percent, say 60%, can you still utilt after the uthrow if they neutral DI?
Da Shuffla
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2008
- Messages
- 1,810
Lol. This exact thing happened to me recently. Too hype with the "I'm faster than you" mentality.
Silent Wolf
...
Yeah If he double jumps it's pretty much impossible not to get a shine in there lol. Grab him a lot, then uthrow shine, waveland on platform combo
nasir123
Smash Ace
hey man can any1 help me with the marth vs fox match- up i am havving a lot of trubble
Miggz
Pancake Sandwiches
You have to be a little bit more specific dude. Is it on stage or off stage issues? Or both? =P
I'd also give CunningKitsune's Fox guide a read. It has a lot of info regarding all of Fox's match ups...
I'd also give CunningKitsune's Fox guide a read. It has a lot of info regarding all of Fox's match ups...
MikeHaggarTHAKJB
Smash Master
Crazy *** shine-spiking business (at the end of the match)
WHY hasn't this been uploaded before??? O.o
WHY hasn't this been uploaded before??? O.o
The best thing i find to do while fighting Marth is to utilize a lot of dodging do to the range of Marth's moves. But since FOX has absurd recovery time you can bounce back with side smashes for your range or shield and get your up smash for a finisher if he is at hi enough damage and close enough.
ComboTurtle
Smash Lord
wow... 10 wows
Doggalina
Smash Lord
Against Marth, I just play very patiently. I DD a lot, and just wait for opportunities to grab/drill. If I approach and it doesn't look like I can get much out of it without getting grabbed, I just run away and repeat. The key to fighting Marth is to never bite of more than you can chew. If there's a decent chance that he'll grab you, don't try to fight through it. Just run away. You are more mobile than him, and you have to take advantage of that.
Also, uthrow uair.
Also, uthrow uair.
A good Marth will read your spot dodges, it's not a good idea to spot dodge a lot. Forward smashes are easily shieldgrabbed, and if you space it wrong you're going to eat a tipper. Up smashes are good finishers but are tough to land unless you tech chase or predict, and it's not worth the risk of getting grabbed and combo'd. Grab to up-throw to upair is much less risky. And then there's bair. Gotta love bair.
I play against a good Marth quite a bit, and he usually commands the match by controlling space very well, predicting my spot dodges, and comboing me endlessly.
thumbswayup
Smash Master
Take the Marth to Pokemon Stadium.
Problem solved.
Problem solved.
Play more homosexual then he does.
Tero.
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,686
fix'd that for you.
Meneks
Smash Lord
I need more help I just went to a tourney and lost to Doctor mario with fox simply because i kept getting chaingrabbed and I didn't have a vast knowledge on the matchup...Once again it sounds dumb...
I made it outta pools though
I made it outta pools though
Don't get hit by his pills, Fox is really fast and stuff, shoot some lasers to make him approach
Don't get CC dsmash/grabbed too much, if he relies on CC a lot counter it with drills/late nairs bairs/empty shffls/not-aerial aproaches.
If he approaches use Fox fast movement stuff to dodge then **** him.
Dont' forget uthrow- uair doesn't combo 1. if he does aerials wait for them then kick him 2. if he jumps you can just Dj uair =)
If you get to close just space moves. Doc has virtually no range so that's really gay somehow
oh and don't get Bob money'd
edit: and Di uairs away
Don't get CC dsmash/grabbed too much, if he relies on CC a lot counter it with drills/late nairs bairs/empty shffls/not-aerial aproaches.
If he approaches use Fox fast movement stuff to dodge then **** him.
Dont' forget uthrow- uair doesn't combo 1. if he does aerials wait for them then kick him 2. if he jumps you can just Dj uair =)
If you get to close just space moves. Doc has virtually no range so that's really gay somehow
oh and don't get Bob money'd
edit: and Di uairs away
Meneks
Smash Lord
I cped yoshi story and I beat him there...
and then he cped FD and thats where i got killed...
****ing chaingrabs...In any case i never played a GOOD doc but no johns...
and then he cped FD and thats where i got killed...
****ing chaingrabs...In any case i never played a GOOD doc but no johns...
Miggz
Pancake Sandwiches
Yeah Doctor Mario isn't exactly my favorite match as Fox either. =P
Frames
DI
yo i like doc over most matchups get that ***** off the stage and he's dead
SpaceFalcon
Smash Lord
Docs weight is perfect for flashy combos.
And since it's doc, it looks so much more original.
And since it's doc, it looks so much more original.
Meneks
Smash Lord
What are some good Counter-Pick stages against doc though?
Grmo
Smash Champion
Rainbow Cruise. I dunno, I don't think it matters that much vs someone as crappy as Doc. I'll always maintain that the best counter-pick is the one you're most comfortable with, so just go with that. Ban FD so you don't get chaingrabbed.
SpaceFalcon
Smash Lord
Well I just go yoshis, but that's just me.