Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[demonictoonlink]

Let's just say it's like politics.. whichever side you choose.. it's gonna be bull**** lol.

LOL this is too true.

 

[POKE40]

wow this is so gay, the brawl community might die becuz of this

I don't it will die.
After three "No's" for banning MK in the past, the community just continued on.

It'll be a regular day.

If MK is banned, something big will happen.
The mods will be busy on that day too.

 

[Matador]

Who knows? We still might have to, but that's not my point. I'll just continue to say LEAD BY EXAMPLE and leave it at that. You all keep saying he's beatable, so let's up the percentage of that happening, ok?

No, I left that question open to allow you to lead to the obvious answer and you STILL ****ed it up.

Those players only lose to truly good players that play MK. At that point, the entire MK pissing/moaning party dies out because those players would more than likely be just as good with other characters, but are good with MK because he's the best in the game, just like in any other game. Therefore, we'd have no problem.

Second problem with your post, your platform is so incredibly flimsy it makes no sense. Lead by example? Wtf does that have to do with anything? I know that I personally don't lose to planking or not-good MKs in the tourneys I've been to (or friendlies...or MMs...), but that's so far from the point I don't know how to respond to it. It's like we're arguing world politics and you bring up how "Piccolo would've been a stronger Kami. He was a top fighter AND he was a Namekian. Lead by example, don't let Goku do all the work".

 

[Falconv1.0]

Pro-ban's argument was already utterly destroyed by Amazing Ampharos, and the point to be made is: A Snake plater won two major tournaments which the best Metaknight player in the world attended. This must be of some meaning. Why is a ban necessary now when things are clearly getting better?(AvaricePanda's quoting)

Falco cant beat air camping omg. We cant all get as good as Ally, and obviously mid level player ****ing matters. THEY MIGHT IDC AND YOU MIGHT BE TOO STUPID TO PUNCH THEM IN THE FACE FOR DOING IT.

Any questions? Besides for King Beef, I don't want to hear anything but "lol Falcon is right" from you. =/

 

[Divinokage]

I don't it will die.
After three "No's" for banning MK in the past, the community just continued on.

It'll be a regular day.

If MK is banned, something big will happen.
The mods will be busy on that day too.

Not really in the end the SBR cannot control the TOs who them decide at their OWN tournaments if they want MK banned or not.

 

[Tyr_03]

People are acting like M2K is the only Metaknight player to ever have been beaten by another character in tournament. If you're going to say that M2K and Ally are in a league of their own, there are still other examples on lower levels of play.

Especially if you happen to be in the midwest, King Beef, where recently Shugo won an over 50 person tournament with Sonic. There were Metaknights in attendance. And even more recently Nope won a 30 some person tournament with Snake with both Overswarm and Kel in attendance playing Metaknight (the highest of which got 7th place.) There are plenty of people leading by example for the anti-ban side and beating out Metaknight players on more local levels should you choose to ignore Ally, Lain or Fiction as outliers.

 

[ShinoBee]

Right...because comparison is ALWAYS the best way to do business.

Well think about this:

Sakurai is probably laughing at the Smash community the fact the game is getting even stripped more.

Brawl doesn't need to be stripped of its characters now, does it?

 

[Red Arremer]

Right...because comparison is ALWAYS the best way to do business.

You know, there's something called "history". History is what lies in the past. History has shown situations that were similar to Brawl's situation in other fighting games, including the 2 prequels to Brawl.
In all of these situations, noone has called for a ban, though! Still noone does.

 

[Eddie G]

No, I left that question open to allow you to lead to the obvious answer and you STILL ****ed it up.

Those players only lose to truly good players that play MK. At that point, the entire MK pissing/moaning party dies out because those players would more than likely be just as good with other characters, but are good with MK because he's the best in the game, just like in any other game. Therefore, we'd have no problem.

Second problem with your post, your platform is so incredibly flimsy it makes no sense. Lead by example? Wtf does that have to do with anything? I know that I personally don't lose to planking or not-good MKs in the tourneys I've been to (or friendlies...or MMs...), but that's so far from the point I don't know how to respond to it. It's like we're arguing world politics and you bring up how "Piccolo would've been a stronger Kami. He was a top fighter AND he was a Namekian. Lead by example, don't let Goku do all the work".

Ok, sure.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Falco cant beat air camping omg. We cant all get as good as Ally, and obviously mid level player ****ing matters. THEY MIGHT IDC AND YOU MIGHT BE TOO STUPID TO PUNCH THEM IN THE FACE FOR DOING IT.

Any questions? Besides for King Beef, I don't want to hear anything but "lol Falcon is right" from you. =/

Honestly...this was superb trolling... Kudos...

 

[Matador]

Ok, sure.

Wow, you really piss me off. I'm just brimming with internet rage right now.

 

[POKE40]

Not really in the end the SBR cannot control the TOs who them decide at their OWN tournaments if they want MK banned or not.

true true.
I bet Genesis will still allow MK even if he is "banned".

(not that he is)

 

[Divinokage]

true true.
I bet Genesis will still allow MK even if he is "banned".

(not that he is)

We'll see when everything unravels itself.. gonna be fun to watch. =P

 

[Eddie G]

People are acting like M2K is the only Metaknight player to ever have been beaten by another character in tournament. If you're going to say that M2K and Ally are in a league of their own, there are still other examples on lower levels of play.

Especially if you happen to be in the midwest, King Beef, where recently Shugo won an over 50 person tournament with Sonic. There were Metaknights in attendance. And even more recently Nope won a 30 some person tournament with Snake with both Overswarm and Kel in attendance playing Metaknight (the highest of which got 7th place.) There are plenty of people leading by example for the anti-ban side and beating out Metaknight players on more local levels should you choose to ignore Ally, Lain or Fiction as outliers.

Yes, and I have a lot of respect for Shugo. Ah well, I'm way too lazy to put any more attention to the whole MK thing. I'll just practice with Jason when I go over to Vidjo's house, hopefully become a rapist of the matchup, and be done with it. I don't want to argue with someone I've already met irl to be honest, especially if that person is chill in my eyes.

/later

 

[Divinokage]

Yes, and I have a lot of respect for Shugo. Ah well, I'm way too lazy to put any more attention to the whole MK thing. I'll just practice with Jason when I go over to Vidjo's house, hopefully become a rapist of the matchup, and be done with it. I don't want to argue with someone I've already met irl to be honest, especially if that person is chill in my eyes.

/later

Maybe but you have to surpass him and learn EVERY matchup regardless.. can you do that? =P

 

[Famous]

No, I left that question open to allow you to lead to the obvious answer and you STILL ****ed it up.

Those players only lose to truly good players that play MK. At that point, the entire MK pissing/moaning party dies out because those players would more than likely be just as good with other characters, but are good with MK because he's the best in the game, just like in any other game. Therefore, we'd have no problem.

Second problem with your post, your platform is so incredibly flimsy it makes no sense. Lead by example? Wtf does that have to do with anything? I know that I personally don't lose to planking or not-good MKs in the tourneys I've been to (or friendlies...or MMs...), but that's so far from the point I don't know how to respond to it. It's like we're arguing world politics and you bring up how "Piccolo would've been a stronger Kami. He was a top fighter AND he was a Namekian. Lead by example, don't let Goku do all the work".

I wish more people posted like this...

With that being said, I'm off to WAL-MART....where prices is a low as Mario on the tier list...

 

[BIG~L]

i kinda dont wanna see him banned cuz good pros like m2k,sean,dsf, and tyrant might quit brawl and it sucks havin people leave the community over a reason like this, and also i heard ally is talkin about focusin on melee now so dat might be another lost

 

[Matador]

With that being said, I'm off to WAL-MART....were prices is a low as Mario on the tier list...

Lmfao, and are both crimes against nature

 

[ShinoBee]

true true.
I bet Genesis will still allow MK even if he is "banned".

(not that he is)

What are you talking about?

Hope that Genesis 2 even considers putting Brawl in.

 

[Divinokage]

i kinda dont wanna see him banned cuz good pros like m2k,sean,dsf, and tyrant might quit brawl and it sucks havin people leave the community over a reason like this, and also i heard ally is talkin about focusin on melee now so dat might be another lost

Oh really? Then I'm going to have to train him. =)

 

[Rykoshet]

People don't have the same opportunities as you? It was a hell of a lot of money just to go from SoCal to NorCal.
Congrats on getting practice at COT4. What, one tournament? Did you get practice at Genesis? Bio?

If at any point I want to practice with someone from my region it will cost me at the very most 30 dollars to get to and from the area I want to go. That's tops, on average it's probably closer to 11. If it costs more on your end then hey, rough luck. But that's probably the cost case for a large majority of people.

... Ok that came from no where. o_O
Woah personal insults that come from assumptions of ones personality based on nothing more then fabrications of ones typing style.
Get outta here

You ****ing hypocrite. You JUST came off of calling me immature over making a joke about M2k's college fund, are you ****ing kidding me? Yes I'm insulting you, don't you ****ing dare act like you didn't throw one first.

Last time I checked, playing a mediocre video game doesn't earn you much money. You act like moneys a big freaking deal in this game compared to actual jobs that earn you money. If you're going to say "money is always a big deal", invest your time in something that you can actually GET money for.
Making money from a video game. Wow. Like I said before, get a job.
If you want to make money, that's what you do. The time you spend practicing/ actually going to tournaments can be better spent outside doing stuff that actually guarantees you MORE money. And guarantees you money in the first place.

It's a non-sequitur. If you pay money to play a game you already own, your goal, your bottom line should be to take money back. You could make eight figures a year and the bottom line should still be to make money back. If you're living off ramen or caviar, you're not throwing money into tournaments for the sake of saying you did. You're free to say the goal is the win, but the win is the means of making money. They're associated, theyre the same. Quit while you're behind.


As for answering your question, I did. If you enter a race with no intention of winning, you could have very well just RAN the equivalent distance for the sake of doing so, for the practice, because it's good for you. You wanna run a marathon? Cool, you wanna pay money to do something you could do on your own for absolutely free with no convenience gained for doing so? You're kidding, right?

 

[Fatmanonice]

And the pro-ban side refuses to directly address my question.

Why is a ban necessary now? We've had 3 of these threads. In each thread, pro-ban talked of how the meta-game would be overcentralized with MK, about how he has no even match-ups, and how leaving him in would kill the competitive scene. It's over a half a year since then, and Meta Knight's tournament dominance has decreased. Match-ups such as ICs and Diddy have slowly been crawling to even, possibly disadvantageous in the future. And the competitive scene is still quite alive. The two biggest recent Brawl tournaments, APEX and Genesis, both had no signs of MK overcentralizing, and there is no proof that he will in the future.

Why do you put up the same argument? Why is a ban necessary now when things are clearly getting better?

Actually, several people have addressed your question, including myself, but they've been buried under everything else.

I think the problem here is that you exaggerate how much better things have become. Things have become better, slightly but, just like more than a year ago, Metaknight still has a huge lead over Snake who inturn has a huge lead over the rest of the cast. As the Amazing Ampharos showed earlier, Metaknight has almost triple the amount of placings when it comes to major tournament placements this year then the second closest character, Snake. The both share 4 wins apiece but, for everything else, Metaknight still leaves everyone in the dust.How is that not proof that this game is still a game that is essentially focused on beating one character?

You speak of match ups becoming closer but, seriously, this has been happening since the game came out. One character would find something that works against Metaknight and then Metaknight players quickly find something that counters. Since the game has been released, we have had a decent people say at one point in time that Donkey Kong, Wolf, Bowser, Shiek, Yoshi, Diddy Kong, Zero Suit Samus, Falco, Ice Climbers, Wario, and Snake have all been Metaknight counters. Where are all these characters now? Where are all these "saviors" to the metagame? Most of these characters were quickly countered simply by counterpicking stages ontop of strategies being found to counter the anti-Metaknight strategies. Even then, the only character that hasn't been fully worked around at some point is Snake. Diddy Kong has been claimed to be a potential counter since last summer and the Ice Climbers can be just as easily stage counterpicked or ledgecamped (hey, if Pikachu can easily ledgecamp the ICs then Metaknight certainly can do the same). As expected, since Metaknight has not true counters this has been a really slow process especially since everyone else does have counters.

Also, you have to consider the mid-level of competitive play too where Metaknight is more dominant and more people have quit Brawl due to him. If anything, there has been evidence that this is increasing despite the lead Metaknight having over Snake slightly decreasing. As several other people said, the mid-level of play makes the high-level of play even possible so if a decent number of people in the mid-level of play leave, it definately hurts the high-level of play.

As myself and others have said, under competitive ideals, Metaknight should not be banned simply because he doesn't have counterpicks. The difference though is that Brawl is a more shallow game than most popular fighting games and the metagame as a whole has mostly slowed to a crawl. Basically, we have a slow developing game that is still riddled with a lot of "gay" elements. We have jab locks but those can be prevented by counterpicking. We have chain grabs, grab releases, and infinites but those can be prevented by counterpicking. We have various forms of camping but, again, those can be counterpicked around. In the end, we are left with one thing that makes the game look bad and greatly lowers its appeal but can't be counterpicked, Metaknight. I personally believe that keeping Metaknight will overall greatly shorten the life span of this game because of the reasons I've already said in this post and how his presence prevents more diversity by keeping 5 characters from becoming viable and 4 from being more viable. Again, if Brawl wasn't so littered with problems already and was more like Melee in terms of "competitiveness", this wouldn't even be an issue but, sadly, that's not the case.

 

[SoupaSonic]

I don't want to see him banned since it sounds like people want him banned because he wins a lot (at least to me) which I don't understand. You guys could just learn how to fight him, it'll be hard... but it's possible. Snakes should look for early gimps and kick him down the tier list. Pikachu's should use thunder when that meta ***hole flies too close for comfort. Just find a way to beat him instead of taking the easy way out of the Meta Knight problem by banning him. (no offense if you disagree)

 

[POKE40]

What are you talking about?

Hope that Genesis 2 even considers putting Brawl in.

Genesis is a tournament in California (where the best of the best of brawl/melee goes to fight). I wasn't referring to the system.

 

[Mike G]

i kinda dont wanna see him banned cuz good pros like m2k,sean,dsf, and tyrant might quit brawl and it sucks havin people leave the community over a reason like this, and also i heard ally is talkin about focusin on melee now so dat might be another lost

I fail to see the problem there.

 

[Eddie G]

Maybe but you have to surpass him and learn EVERY matchup regardless.. can you do that? =P

Well with the opportunity right in front of me, I'll do my best.

 

[ShinoBee]

Genesis is a tournament in California (where the best of the best of brawl/melee goes to fight). I wasn't referring to the system.

Uhhh... I was at Genesis also? I even have a volunteer badge?

And there's sure consideration for another tournament, minus Brawl.

 

[iRJi]

I don't want to see him banned since it sounds like people want him banned because he wins a lot (at least to me) which I don't understand. You guys could just learn how to fight him, it'll be hard... but it's possible. Snakes should look for early gimps and kick him down the tier list. Pikachu's should use thunder when that meta ***hole flies too close for comfort. Just find a way to beat him instead of taking the easy way out of the Meta Knight problem by banning him. (no offense if you disagree)

Saying this just makes it seem you didn't read anything all that much before posting. Its not the fact you have to learn the matchups, its the fact that he still has an advantage over majority of the cast, and at worse a 50:50, while others have at least 2 C/P's.

 

[Suspect]

with all the racket that happened at genesis (people yelling brawl sucks, dojo and dehf) might be more, i wasnt there, but there prolly wont be brawl at the next one.

 

[POKE40]

Uhhh... I was at Genesis also? I even have a volunteer badge?

And there's sure consideration for another tournament, minus Brawl.

I am officially confused and saddened brawl might not return next year to genesis.

I will continue to head bang against this screen until this MK: to be banned or not to be banned discussion is finished.

Has a nic3 dai

 

[mailanbr]

Ban FTW pl0x

 

[ShinoBee]

I am officially confused.

I will continue to head bang against this screen until this MK: to be banned or not to be banned discussion is finished.

Has a nic3 dai

Shouldn't I be headdesking right now?

 

[SoupaSonic]

I know that he has a large advantage over most of the characters, but like I said before it's not impossible to beat him. If your main is gonna be a **** match up then get a secondary that has more of an even matchup. Or pick up meta yourself (I wouldn't, just don't like the feel of him)

 

[SuSa]

I don't want to see him banned since it sounds like people want him banned because he wins a lot (at least to me) which I don't understand. You guys could just learn how to fight him, it'll be hard... but it's possible. Snakes should look for early gimps and kick him down the tier list. Pikachu's should use thunder when that meta ***hole flies too close for comfort. Just find a way to beat him instead of taking the easy way out of the Meta Knight problem by banning him. (no offense if you disagree)

Did you just put Gimp and Snake in the same sentence?

I think you have it in the wrong order.....Snake's should find ways to avoid early gimps by Meta Knight... except the fact that... we have... and almost everything we do, the MK can react to.... we airdodge? Good, almost all of your attacks are fast enough to just hit us when we come out. We FF an aerial? Your sword is disjointed enough to hit us out of those. We pull a grenade? You can avoid it. We cypher? Great, now you can knock us off within the first second or so.

Pikachu should use thunder? Then MK just runs up, dash grabs, the thunder misses both him and Pika, and Pika takes damage. I think you should stop playing this game at such a low level of play.. if Thunder is working to keep MK's away from you, the MK is doing it wrong.

 

[Zolios]

I know that he has a large advantage over most of the characters, but like I said before it's not impossible to beat him. If your main is gonna be a **** match up then get a secondary that has more of an even matchup. Or pick up meta yourself (I wouldn't, just don't like the feel of him)

I think we covered this on the what? Second page.

At least try to add something useful to the discussion.

Anyway, MK obviously isn't broken enough to be banned in brawl, therefore he isn't.

 

[iRJi]

I know that he has a large advantage over most of the characters, but like I said before it's not impossible to beat him. If your main is gonna be a **** match up then get a secondary that has more of an even matchup. Or pick up meta yourself (I wouldn't, just don't like the feel of him)

You are still kind of missing the point though. The fact that He is the only character with that luxury is what differs from the rest of the cast. It is obvious that you have to pick up someone who stands a better chance, but he is the only one you do not have even a slight advantage on.

 

[Clai]

Right...because comparison is ALWAYS the best way to do business.

Yes. It shows that we as a community are a bunch of incessant babies that don't know how work around problems within their games so they resort to pandering and bawling (or BRAWLING, lol) until that problem is removed and they don't have to worry about it anymore.

I support Brawl, and I friggin LOVE this community.

 

[Zolios]

I would say the worst part of brawl would be the community. The online community that is.

 

[WheelOfFish]

:| Metaknight is not unbeatable. If he gets banned before infinites (excluding IC) and ridiculous chaingrab... well, not that I really care. I don't like regular Brawl.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I said this before: we should just ban every character that has a matchup with MK worse than 45:55. That would also solve the problem.