Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[noradseven]

Inui's post are so fun to read xD. He's like a lawyer over the internet that backs up what he sais and puts you in his place while he's at it! lol too good

he is indeed at least a mediocre **** poster from what I have seen so yeah p. much what you said.

 

[Mike B]

I am a democrat, and have read both sides; pro-ban ftw.

 

[swordgard]

great counter argument. you win.

Well, i could make a thousand words long argument showing you know nothing, but il just point out 3 obvious things.


A) MK doesnt have nice priority, he bypasses the usually intrinsic priority system and uses implied priority, therefore the type of priority you refer to is nonexistent.

B) Ice climbers only have cgs??? That doesnt make em bannable one bit, nor is it their only tool.

C) And ice lock???? I cant remember when was the last time i saw an ice climber use ice lock effectively.

 

[Cloud9157]

I am laughing so ****ing hard right now. Seriously, do you know ****ing anything about nerds or the tourney scene? ANYTHING?


Cloud9157-You know nothing and you have a terrible name. =/

Instead of acting like a complete ***, explain how I know nothing. And nice one, insulting my name, lol grow up.

 

[Falconv1.0]

he is indeed at least a mediocre **** poster from what I have seen so yeah p. much what you said.

It's nice to know people still don't lurk enough.

 

[Scidadle]

I read the first couple lines of your post Inui.

Who are you to judge peoples skill? What your 12k posts?

Go read a book or some ****

 

[Kamikaze*]

I lol Hard if this vote is an overwhelming yes, but he still doesn't get banned. Yay for SBR mk mains ^_^

Or maybe the SBR lets things besides the poll influence their decision.

 

[Famous]

he actually thinks people care about what he says when he posts like this

oh my god inui you're just making a fool out of yourself...SHUT UP

The funny thing is that some top players that deserves to be in the SBR aren't even in there...

SBR needs more people with unique prospective...

 

[MarKO X]

I almost took this seriously, except for this:

this referring to downB to escape everything....

The infinite dimensional cape clearly breaks Brawl entirely, for reasons that don’t need to be explained here. We have removed it using a rule, but it’s very hard to detect and enforce. You cannot really tell if someone taps the c-stick up once or twice to gain that extra inch of distance they need to escape or hit a perfect edgehog. Then there is the Extended Dimensional Cape, which while not infinite, can be used to stall out a match. If you’re in trouble, simply use the Extended Dimensional Cape and cross the level safely. Once you get there, come out of cape and go back to the other side using Extended Dimensional Cape again. Throw in a technically illegal but impossible to detect tap up on the c-stick and you’ve got a completely safe way to cross the stage.

hmmmm....

 

[Falconv1.0]

Oh, and he has a **** recovery to boot.

This is pretty much the most obvious reason why you are silly silly man.

Oh and Snake can strike most of his bad stages lawlz.

Mother****ers telling me to grow, now that's just adorable.

 

[IcyLight]

Instead of acting like a complete ***, explain how I know nothing. And nice one, insulting my name, lol grow up.

you just told a troll to grow up. l2internet

 

[noradseven]

Well, i could make a thousand words long argument showing you know nothing, but il just point out 3 obvious things.


A) MK doesnt have nice priority, he bypasses the usually intrinsic priority system and uses implied priority, therefore the type of priority you refer to is nonexistent.

B) Ice climbers only have cgs??? That doesnt make em bannable one bit, nor is it their only tool.

C) And ice lock???? I cant remember when was the last time i saw an ice climber use ice lock effectively.

An IC main you have my respect for being a fellow difficult character bud, but how I hate you and your game slowing down chaingrab it makes me lose my momentum \

 

[Inui]

who are you?

have you seen inui's picture? jesus christ the dude's level of nerdiness is so extreme i dont know how he's able to muster up the courage to go out in public for smash tournaments.

I have a better question. Who are you?

I'll answer that for you.

NOBODY. Get lost, random.

he actually thinks people care about what he says when he posts like this

oh my god inui you're just making a fool out of yourself...SHUT UP

More foolishness from a foolhardy fool too foolish to even know that he is a fool.

You're not even debating anything. You're merely attacking me, and doing a very poor job despite your efforts at being cool and funny. You...don't amount to much.

Inui's post are so fun to read xD. He's like a lawyer over the internet that backs up what he sais and puts you in his place while he's at it! lol too good

A von Karma's logic is always perfect.

 

[AvaricePanda]

No evidence?
Air planking

Air planking?

Ooh...you mean air camping.

OOOOOOH...you mean flying around in the air and air-dodging a bunch when you have a percent lead.

LOL THAT'S SO BROKEN IT'S NOT LIKE ANY OTHER CHARACTER CAN DO IT WARIO NO OTHER CHARACTERS CAN DO IT. And approaching...LOL, forget approaching. You might risk getting hit! They can stall the entire match, because if you try to approach THEY MITE HIT U!!1,

nearly impossible to gimp,

This makes him horridly broken and banworthy? Also, other characters can be quite difficult to gimp as well.

downB to escape practically everything,

....LOLOL.

Just so you know, any extention of the dimensional cape is banned. If you extend it ONCE, you can get warned/DQd.

tons of quick, unnecessarily powerful attacks with nice priority

Snake.

, and that's not evidence.

No, it's not evidence. It's half true statements we've known since APRIL that you used to theorycraft, "MK is super banworthy in the future just no one's playing him right lolss!1"

All IC's got going for them (to warrant a ban) are the grabs. And maybe the Ice Lock.

I wasn't serious about ICs. I was using the example of ICs to counter your completely horrible argument, that saying, "This character COULD be really banworthy so that means that we should ban them now even though we have no evidence to support that they could be worse in the future and YOU DON'T BAN THINGS PRE-EMPTIVELY ANYWAY."

 

['V']

There are so many more characters that should be banned than just Meta Knight.

 

[Fatmanonice]

The WiFi community will become non-existant if MK is banned. Everyone will leave WiFi because they can't beat someone that's better than them without spamming nado or D Smash with MK. DON'T DO IT SCRUBS.

Snake and Olimar are the leading characters for online tournaments. If anything, there are a lot fewer competitive online Metaknights than offline and, in comparison, they don't rank nearly as often.

 

[stingers]

More foolishness from a foolhardy fool too foolish to even know that he is a fool.

do you see what the **** i mean

 

[Teran]

Except Snake has CPs, both stages and characters? Oh, and he has a **** recovery to boot.

Snake still significantly better than a lot of the cast, basically to the same extent as MK.

Also, Falco, Snake and Diddy all go even with Meta Knight.
Arguing that only top tiers standing a chance against MK is broken is a farce, seeing as how that was basically how Melee was too. A group of top tiers that won everything, and basically had their own self contained little metagame.

That's nice and all, but it doesn't change what I said. Ether isn't a top player. He has never been strong in singles. You didn't take out some big name with your (terrible) MK.

I didn't bring up doubles as mattering, fool. I am in the SBR because I am a top player and a top host and an active poster. I am the type of person the SBR is designed for. Of course, your bias blinds you to that fact. How sad it must be, to be so ignorant.



I don't even understand where this nonsense came from. I wear a clean shirt every day. I am highly knowledgable and research things consistently.

I'm the prosecutor sprite guy.

"Yes Master Karma."

 

[ShadowLink84]

I may hit you for this TERRIBLE comparison.
Shame.
I need an objection GIF for you too.

Anyway, the elites of the world do not necessarily make all the decisions, often, they typically have the sway those below, the more numerous lower classes.
For example the ability of the President to use the people in order to influence Congress' decisions.

It isn't that they simply make the decisions,it is simply because those below them allow it.
So it isn't logical to say that the top players and top hosts should make the call. Especially considering they also have their own ideas on the matter that my not necessarily be correct.

Second, the SBR is far from equatable to a governmental body, which has the ability to enforce the laws that it has set. The SBR is far from a governmental body because it lacks the ability to enforce the rules it creates. On that basis alone the comparison is invalid.

Thirdly, considering the magnitude of this debate, it really cannot be left alone to the elite.
Certainly some of the elite may want MK to remain unbanned, they are gaining a profit from tournaments, tournament hosts earn a profit in that they continue attracting players who are using among the most popular characters out there.

This is something that affects the ENTIRE community, to not allow the community to voice their opinion would be terrible. Not only would this alienate the lower levels of players, it would certainly cause a split in the community if only the elite players were allowed to decide.

If anything, it should account for more considering that the elite is grossly outnumbered by those of lower level. Let alone it isn't as if the elite players are trying to represent the voice of those lower level players either.



LOL WUT!?
ME!?
BRILLIANT AND TALENTED!?
Surely you jest.

Now I shall slam my hands upon my desk and wag my finger at you while i object to your ideals and arguments!

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=3174015


Joking aside, I do agree that idiots WILL vote and they WILL poison the results with their illogical, and ignorant reasoning, however, it is unavoidable.
I do think though that even with skewing, the results will indicate the views of the community (most likely split) and will offer an idea as to what should be done regarding MK.

IMO I hate MK, he is a tit with a face mask for a nipple protector, and the fact that he has option select and pulls off all kinds of safe maneuvers and even when those are threatened (as in the case of snake) he still has PLENTY of of options that are numerous and effective.

Even so I'll have to vote no, logically speaking, he isn't breaking the game, and while i hate his existence, I do think he is very well beatable.


YOU ARE WRONG!
SCREW POINTING OUT THE FALLACIES IN YOUR ARGUMENT!

If you cannot defeat someone's argument logically, do not post, and I know you can articulate your arguments properly.

Since no one really responded. Then again the topic gained 3 pages in a few minutes.

 

[Falconv1.0]

My ribs hurt from all these lawlz.

 

[Cloud9157]

Clearly you have a lot of growing to do if you make fun of someone's forum name...

Snake's recovery is good huh? Reality check, it isn't. You jump off the stage and continuously hit him off of Cypher. Oh but wait! He can C4 to save himself. Great, thanks for the auto 17%.

 

[Master Raven]

Marko, serious IDC use is illegal, period. If someone is caught using even the EDC, they're ****ed, unless the other player doesn't mind.

 

[HowaitoKumaSan]

After reading both arguments, it does seem like the pro-ban side has a stronger argument present. The anti-ban side didn't really give me a reason to want to side with them. It also helps that I'm a dimwit.

However, I voted to not ban him, because in all seriousness, it's not that big a deal.

 

[Inui]

I read the first couple lines of your post Inui.

Who are you to judge peoples skill? What your 12k posts?

Go read a book or some ****

I am elite. That is all you need to know.

do you see what the **** i mean

You fail to realize that I am immitating a character from a video game.

I'm the prosecutor sprite guy.

"Yes Master Karma."

No way! I've been using sprites of all the prosecutors and immitating them for ages now!

 

[MarKO X]

Well, i could make a thousand words long argument showing you know nothing, but il just point out 3 obvious things.


A) MK doesnt have nice priority, he bypasses the usually intrinsic priority system and uses implied priority, therefore the type of priority you refer to is nonexistent.

B) Ice climbers only have cgs??? That doesnt make em bannable one bit, nor is it their only tool.

C) And ice lock???? I cant remember when was the last time i saw an ice climber use ice lock effectively.

A) technical definitions of priority being used. i approve.
maybe i shoulda been more specific and said that he has nice range and speed and power for his attacks, and has safe moves can practically beat anything that isn't a projectile.

B + C) I can honestly say that I know nothing of the IC and do get wrecked by them.

 

[AvaricePanda]

OH AND GUESS WHAT!

No one in pro-ban has directly addressed this! I guess I'll repost it.

Pro-ban, ask me these questions:

Why now is a ban necessary? You've been using the same argument for a year, and the MK "problem" has only gotten better, yet people are still fussing on about how MK will only get worse, and he's dominating tournament results, etc.

Let's look at something.



This has been said since November, and since November, his overall tournament results have declined. While he still is in the lead for best results, they aren't nearly as bad as half a year ago. Look at the two most recent, most competitive, largest Brawl tournaments; Apex and Genesis. A lot of people said, "Let's wait for Apex!" It happened. One out of the top eight was a pure MK main I believe, with two or three others using him as a secondary in some matches. Ally, a Snake main, won Apex. Most people said, "Let's wait for Genesis!" 3 out of the top 8 were pure MK mains, no one else using him. Ally, a Snake, won Genesis.

These results have a decent decline from other large tournaments such as hobo11 and CoT4 in the past, yet people are saying that MK's tournament results will only grow. They've shrunk. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that his tournament placings will get better.



First of all, what exactly is an even match-up? If you're really on-paper-picky, then even match-ups don't exist except for ditto matches (but even then, port priority). But realistically, an even match-up is just a match-up where it's very close, and the more skilled player will generally win. And the top players are pretty close in skill.

To say that MK has no even or close enough to even match-ups is hard, given the evidence. Ally, a Snake main, has gone back and forth with M2K, an MK main, as well as beating other top MKs. Lain, an Ice Climbers main, beat Dojo and M2K, both MK mains, at Apex. ADHD, a Diddy main, has beaten Dojo in an MM at Apex and come very close to beating both M2K and Tyrant in previous sets.

If MK had a clear advantage on every one of his match-ups, why would things like this be happening?

If you want to argue the match-up specifics of why I think that he has even MUs like Snake, ICs. and Diddy, then go ahead and challenge me, because I don't feel like writing out long match-up summaries. I will say this though; Diddy Kong especially has only improved in this match-up since it's been explored, and he has a lot of known technical room to grow, such as single banana locking and working out the kinks of mid-ranged zoning, room to grow in the match-up that MK doesn't have. These match-ups are looking worse for MK as time goes on.



First: Snake and Diddy Kong.

Second: Planking and aircamping have been known for ages, The infamous Plank vs. SK92 match where Plank...well...planked and played very campy was a match from September of last year. It's late July now. Everybody knows about the match, everybody knows about planking and air-camping, INCLUDING MK mains. If they wanted to have planked every match to net a win by now, they'd do it.

But not only do many people choose not to play like that because it's boring and not fun for them (M2K being a good example of this), many don't do it much even if they could because they aren't horribly broken. A good chunk of the cast has a very safe answer to planking, and EVERYONE can get past planking and air-camping by simply approaching. Is it safe? Not always. Do we know the specifics of what each character can do against planking and air-camping? No. So should people stop saying, "LOL IT'S BROKED BAN EET" and actually try to find out how good or bad it is before they say it's bannable? Yes.



People have been saying that since November.

It's late July now.

Hey, guess what, competitive Brawl still exists! And look, all of the signs, such as his match-ups and tournament placings, show that his lead on the cast that he once held is now, in fact, slipping! There's no evidence to suggest that the meta-game will deteriorate, especially since people have been saying that for over half a year and the situations only gotten better!

There is no logical reason to ban MK at this point. While the scare back in November or whatever was understandable, the situation's gotten better, and pro-ban is using the exact same argument. If competitive Brawl would have died, it would have happened by now. There is no evidence to suggest that MK will have some broken new tech, or MK will dominate results in the future. Even if there was, you don't ban things pre-emptively because you theory-craft that they MIGHT be bad. You ban them when they're a problem.

Meta Knight is not a problem, and Meta Knight will not be a problem.

Meta Knight should not be banned.

 

[BoTastic!]

Oh and Snake can strike most of his bad stages lawlz.

I thought anyone can do that.

 

[Gianfranco]

the amount of butthurt this thread has is absolutely fantastic.

just like flamewars and fanboy wars, the amount of trolling from everywhere is magnificent.

 

[nuro]

If you took out Meta Knight Brawl would be a lot slower. I've got a better idea.

Ban every character besides MetaKnight; this makes the game much more fun!

 

[noradseven]

ZSS does just fine against MK too its like what 5.5 his favor some****, its not falco , 7:3 fuuck

There are so many more characters that should be banned than just Meta Knight.

ban all but ganon, DO IT.

 

[Alphatron]

Meta Knight isn't broken. He's just better than a lot of characters due to crappy game balance. IDC was already rightfully banned. Banning the whole character for being good is pretty silly. Snake isn't banned for his abnormal hitboxes on his smash like tilts with monstrous speed. Nor has anyone been banned for chaingrabbing.

 

[fkacyan]

this referring to downB to escape everything....

hmmmm....

I can count on one hand the number of times I have seen IDC used in tourney, and it has never been used effectively. Not only that, you can't 'randomly' use it to escape moves. Of course, you don't actually know much about MK, his moves, and how this all works, or otherwise you wouldn't be using it the way you are in your 'argument.'

Avavrice, you should IM me.

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

Probably about 2 weeks before we stop playing Brawl forever.

Then why are you guys not banning MK

 

[warrenb]

Nu is moar broken den MK.

 

[BSP]

Clearly you have a lot of growing to do if you make fun of someone's forum name...

Snake's recovery is good huh? Reality check, it isn't. You jump off the stage and continuously hit him off of Cypher. Oh but wait! He can C4 to save himself. Great, thanks for the auto 17%.

You HAVE seen how high he goes if he uses it right after he jumps right?

 

[Falconv1.0]

Clearly you have a lot of growing to do if you make fun of someone's forum name...

Snake's recovery is good huh? Reality check, it isn't. You jump off the stage and continuously hit him off of Cypher. Oh but wait! He can C4 to save himself. Great, thanks for the auto 17%.

He's one of the hardest characters for Kirby and MK to gimp, if you seriously think I'm wrong on that you need to go to tourneys or troll youtube. Have you see how high that mother ****er goes? You can live past 2005 with that **** on some stages

The fact that you're so butthurt over a joking comment about your name due to it's lack of originality=YOU NEED TO LURK MOAR.

 

[Genosync]

If you took out Meta Knight Brawl would be a lot slower. I've got a better idea.

Ban every character besides MetaKnight; this makes the game much more fun!

this, plus heavy amounts of alcohol and whorenado create hilarity.

 

[*JuriHan*]

I think it's about time we all come to the realization that we need to stop playing Brawl.

YES! Let's all go back to Smash64!!!

 

[Cloud9157]

Snake still significantly better than a lot of the cast, basically to the same extent as MK.

Also, Falco, Snake and Diddy all go even with Meta Knight.
Arguing that only top tiers standing a chance against MK is broken is a farce, seeing as how that was basically how Melee was too. A group of top tiers that won everything, and basically had their own self contained little metagame.

Except there was a balance of the top tiers in Melee. They all beat each other, whereas MK is 45-55 with Snake at the worst.

 

[stingers]

You fail to realize that I am immitating a character from a video game.

franziska von karma, yeah, i know. what you fail to realize how stupid that makes you look. it's not funny or clever, it's just nerdy and pathetic.

"Hey, if I reference something that most people here would recognize, it'll make me look cool! Maybe people will like me then! Yay!